So I've been having some success with GP at silver 1/gold 5 level. People completely underestimate GP's early damage, probably because no one plays him, which leads to a lot of first bloods or extremely favorable early exchanges. If you are purple side you can cheese them in the river bush and occasionally catch them coming from leashing blue, and aa + q + aa will give you a kill or win you lane. The only trouble I run into is if I get first blood at lvl 1 or 2, then shove the lane and recall with 900-1000 gold, I am not sure what to buy. I've been going with avarice/pots/ward since it builds into shiv and lets you get the extra gold income for a few extra mins, but I feel like that doesn't really help you snowball your early advantage from the kill. Suggestions?

JSH

United States4109 Posts

July 31 2013 14:05 GMT

#682

Extra dorans blade helps keep your lane advantage if you'd like
I'm not too sold on early avarice, might as well work on parts of zeal if you can't afford it yet
Ninja tabi is pretty good top too if you are against ad top.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

July 31 2013 17:33 GMT

#683

Been trying out Doran Ring start = > Avarice => MR and Armor item = > zeus build

Starting doran ring feels good. You can q creeps all day and have mana leftover for liberal oranges.
Thoughts on doran ring starts?

Complete

United States1864 Posts

July 31 2013 18:00 GMT

#684

I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, lol.

mordek

United States12704 Posts

July 31 2013 18:02 GMT

#685

Health, mana regen, better oranges. It's not terrible

Speaking of AP and trolling... since the barrage slows do people build liandry's when doing ap gp?

commandchild

38 Posts

July 31 2013 18:17 GMT

#686

On August 01 2013 03:00 Complete wrote:
I honestly can't tell if you're trolling, lol.

Honestly I could see it. He makes good use of those stats levels 1-5 and it would be the only ap item he builds.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

July 31 2013 18:22 GMT

#687

I'm insulted

Main issue w/ GP is the fact that he's gated by mana. MP5 + Mana back on kill is basically perfect for Qs.

I liked it against singed because I needed a lot of sustain to stay in lane to prevent tower going down. Used to go flask and pots but those run out and I never ever want to go back against singed because he never goes back. You can stay in lane longer than a proxy singed which is funny.

I just don't know if it's strictly worse than a charm start. Feel like the HP and better mana regen is worth it. I dunno how much the AP helps but I typically go W max anyway (Except against proxy singed)

Anakko

France1934 Posts

July 31 2013 18:22 GMT

#688

kind of like a reverse doran's blade kennen, i guess

mordek

United States12704 Posts

July 31 2013 18:26 GMT

#689

You're only realistic option would philo with a faerie charm right? Which isn't great unless you're going for the bankplank theme. You can just sell the charm for minimal loss but the same can be said for the ring, just a little more of an investment. I'm liking it the more I think about it in terms of helping gp stay in lane.

What are the other alternative starts? cloth+pots, flask+pots, boots+pots? against an ap or mixed opponent hp sounds like a good thing.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

July 31 2013 18:58 GMT

#690

I like DRing better than all of these because it's basically an inverse GP5... you don't have to buy as many pots, you have basically the same regen, and some survivability to boot.

With someone like GP I really like to stay in lane as long as humanly possible, and typically I'm allowed to do so because GP is a very safe laner that is hard to kill but who also has limited kill potential besides lvl-1 fuckups.

This means that once you burn through your pots you're done, which is where DRing is clearly superior.

I really don't like DBlade starts and feel iffy about DSheild starts.

I was actually inspired by Korean Nidalees who started chalice then would go full bruiser (or at least they used to). I don't like going full chalice on GP because he is not as mana dependent as Nidalee. The MR might be nice but I feel like w/ GP you really need to get something going by the midgame because he is outscaled by several top laners, and DRing seems to be just enough to satisfy his mana/survivability needs. You can get merc treads or start building for your spirit visage if you really want the MR, allowing you to actually start building for the mid/late game.

Complete

United States1864 Posts

August 01 2013 16:29 GMT

#691

you're not laning correctly if you're running out of mana with GP with a flask. Flask is way better if you arent going cloth or bead+ward+pot.

ZERG_RUSSIAN

10417 Posts

August 01 2013 18:02 GMT

#692

One Dolan's Ring is an interesting alternative to Flask. It only costs 55 more and you get stats from it. I'd probably take it in lanes where I would be farming a lot, like Shen or Malphite.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

August 01 2013 19:11 GMT

#693

Looking only at mana...

Math
+ Show Spoiler +

Flask = 60 * 3 = 180 mana

For Dring you gotta use creeps per second. Using this website, I estimate the max CS is about 12 creeps / min, but we'll take 9 creeps / min and say we miss some creeps. 9 creeps / min = 0.75 creeps / 5 sec

DRing = 3mp5 + 4 mana / creep *(0.75 Creeps / sec) = 6 mp5

So DRing will produce as much mana as flask after 150 seconds or 2.5 minutes.

This assumes that A) You don't go back and B) Flask's mana regen is not wasted (it's probably not cause it's GP).

Looking at HP
Doran Ring gives 60 hp whereas Flask gives you 360 hp over 36 seconds.

Finally, the only edge that DRing gives you is the AP.

In conclusion: Flask is slightly better and a little cheaper. Should probably get flask unless you're planning on staying in lane and never going back. Maybe vs, as 5hit says, farming lanes like singed, shen, or malphite DRing could outperform Flask.

Edit: Can't do math

Complete

United States1864 Posts

August 01 2013 19:44 GMT

#694

Sorry I called you a troll, after doing some very rough math it's not *that* bad, I just still prefer flask

Also, your math is way off. Assuming 9 creeps a minute that's 3+3=6mp5. That's 72 mana a minute. That gets you 180 mana in 2.5 minutes. I still prefer flask because it's cheaper, I can start with a ward, and my general play style/experience with GP doesn't really require extra mana past what a flask gives. Also, 360 health from the flask is huge (assuming its not a 100->0 allin), plus there will be wasted mana with the mana regen if you're at full mana. I can see it if you plan to stay in lane for a long time and want to spam oranges for health, though.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

August 01 2013 20:12 GMT

#695

Oops I'm tired lol. For some reason I thought there were 25 seconds in a minute.

And it's K after enough soloQ you develop thick skin

Yeah flask looks like it mostly outperforms DRing. The extra HP from oranges does not make it to 360 health until you use it 15 times.... and flask gets you that HP waaay faster.

But because it outperforms flask in 2.5 minutes, I would think DRing is superior in the aforementioned farm lanes. I do find mana to be the main problem I encounter with GP esp. if I'm in lane long enough.

+ Show Spoiler +

Also your ults are better AP GP OP

WarpStatus

United States18 Posts

August 01 2013 23:28 GMT

#696

On July 31 2013 19:57 kongoline wrote:
k i tried korean build and had to play vs rumble it was most unpleasant lane ever, i was constantly pushed to the tower couldnt shove back and he could rape me everytime we 1v1, dont think i can enjoy playing relatively weak champion, passively farm under turret for 20minutes just to have average results later(why not play nasus then?), not my style of play

Did you rush wit's and max w? I have found rumble to be pretty annoying in the past as well, but the last time I went against one using the k build it went smoothly. I would only trade at level 1/2 and after wits. You should always be able to farm well against him til you reach that point.

After wits I remember trading with him and just killing him. If you don't want to commit don't because his sustain doesn't match yours. Look for trades anytime you have orange and similar hp. Note that I do use barrier as my summoner skill despite recommendations to use ignite. I find it to work really well with GP for the baits.

So I would try going wits->giants->statik as recommeneded. If you run into trouble go wits->SV. Really Ahead wits->statik.

cLutZ

United States19573 Posts

August 01 2013 23:34 GMT

#697

God, that special forces skin is awesome.

Its on par with the Riot squad skins.

DrunkenOne

United States302 Posts

August 02 2013 12:50 GMT

#698

Tried d ring start vs shen, it was ok, but I think d shield would have been better. The mana regen was noticable but I wound up having to spend extra mana on Ws to negate his constant q harass, which would have probably been taken care of by the passive regen on d shield.

Mauzel

United States421 Posts

August 02 2013 14:14 GMT

#699

You're taking Q harass from Shen?

Feel like he should need that to sustain in lane. Against shen 1-5, you should be able to sit in creep wave and auto-q-auto if he comes for CS.

Taktik

Poland680 Posts

August 05 2013 21:22 GMT

#700

I just had one of the most fun games ever. I was GP and my opponent is Quinn so I go defensive masteries get cloth and sit in river bush waiting for her to show up from blue. OF COURSE she went retard way cause its GOLD 1. If i had ignite i would have killed her right there at lvl1 (went for tp). I was kinda scared of her auto harass however once I got dorans shield after first buy it was K. Got ninja tabi in between shiv components so she couldnt do much. After getting shiv u just shoot her all the time and shes forced to b or she will die. Also W will remove blind so it was kinda nice. Used all my ults on map never in lane or to farm, and it pays off. The bottom lane got advantage - I got two assists. After I get Sunfire Quinn just had to use her ult to run away. When laning phase was over I was running all around the map shooting people like a jackass, with shiv and Iceborn g.

I ended the game with 9/1/smth record, and kinda didnt knew what to buy next... GP has so much possibilities in itemization.
Final build was Tabi,Shiv,IG,Sunfire, doran s. but they surrender and I wasnt decided on next item.

I love gp