EPTThe economics behind this decision making hasn't changed.
Nydus Worm shouldnt stay like that - Page 3
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
The economics behind this decision making hasn't changed. | ||
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SC2Angora
53 Posts
On October 19 2015 06:08 Moonsalt wrote: Here's how you defend: build 1 Liberator -> dead nydus. Look the replay even with a 1/1/1 your libe is too late for the nydus and we even dont talk about the upgrade. | ||
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shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 16 2015 07:01 [PkF] Wire wrote: The surprising thing is I don't think it was even mentioned once in community updates. And it's more retarded than anything DK ever conceived. Is it really that bad? Worse than PO? Worse than prisms? Worse than nitro medivacs? I'm mostly a Zerg player, but I have went against it while I was playing as Terran a few times, and did not think it was OP or anything. If I am wrong I would love to know what makes it so much more powerful? I do think that maybe Queens should not be able to heal it for a period of time after spawn, healing them may cause some issies with it being fair. But aside from that, it dies pretty fast. To be honest fairly often I've seen it killed before any units came out, or maybe one-two units coming out. Seems like the only thing it will punish is if you leave your base COMPLETELY undefended? On October 19 2015 00:38 StarscreamG1 wrote: When you have to play to blind counter ONE build, the game is broken. I don't see much of a future to LOTV, I'm really worried about the Kim's way :\ I'm not sure if you realize, but lately many Zerg players in LotV have had to go with blind spores due to limited information. I agree that things like this should not belong in the game at all, they should not be in for ANY of the races. But if Zerg has to worry about being defensive due to possibilities of limited information, that makes it fair if the other races should have to deal with the same thing, no? | ||
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PinheadXXXXXX
United States897 Posts
On October 19 2015 10:43 Spyridon wrote: I'm not sure if you realize, but lately many Zerg players in LotV have had to go with blind spores due to limited information. I agree that things like this should not belong in the game at all, they should not be in for ANY of the races. But if Zerg has to worry about being defensive due to possibilities of limited information, that makes it fair if the other races should have to deal with the same thing, no? Making spores blindly is like a small blind adjustment; it doesn't define an entirely new build. Many terrans go blind turrets in TvT and TvP (which are an even greater investment) and no one is complaining about that as much as nydus. Against nydus, it's possible terrans will have to do more than just little adjustments in their build. Terrans may have to do something as radical as not building hellions entirely, which is more in line with being pigeonholed into a single build than simply having to make one adjustment across all builds. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
On October 16 2015 05:08 pure.Wasted wrote: Ryung lost a couple of games to Nydus two nights ago. Here's what happened: Ryung sees Overlord next to his base, Overlord plants Nydus. Ryung sees Nydus. Ryung moves 10 SCVs, 2-3 Hellions, 5-6 Marines next to Nydus. Ryung waits for 10 seconds while Nydus finishes building. Ryung focuses fire on Nydus. 5 Queens come out, each one transfusing the Nydus. There are now 5 Queens attacking Ryung's Marines/SCVs while he's still trying to bring down the full health Nydus. Roaches come out. GG. Maybe this is the most all-in build ever conceived by any Zerg and if Ryung had only scouted it and attacked into it, he would have won 100%, therefore it's balanced (I doubt all of these things)... but it looked broken as FUCK. I bet Ryung went greedy into 3 orbitals that's why he had 2 hellions and few marines while Zerg had Lair tech with nydus...It's like Terran punishing Zerg with 2 racks bunker rush while he goes 3 hatch before pool. I don't see nothing imbalanced in both cases. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
On October 16 2015 05:18 pure.Wasted wrote: What if you open tanks and then there's no worm? Isn't that a huge economic setback? Seems kind of reminiscent of "build 3 bunkers against Blink Stalkers that might never attack and then you're already behind." Zerg sets himself back in the same way forced to build safe ravagers because u always risk Liberator ruining your mineral line. | ||
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ScienceRob
United States382 Posts
On October 19 2015 15:58 hiroshOne wrote: Zerg sets himself back in the same way forced to build safe ravagers because u always risk Liberator ruining your mineral line. Except you can easily scout and prepare for a liberator and are not required to have most of your forces back home to stop. | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On October 16 2015 05:08 pure.Wasted wrote: Ryung lost a couple of games to Nydus two nights ago. Here's what happened: Ryung sees Overlord next to his base, Overlord plants Nydus. Ryung sees Nydus. Ryung moves 10 SCVs, 2-3 Hellions, 5-6 Marines next to Nydus. Ryung waits for 10 seconds while Nydus finishes building. Ryung focuses fire on Nydus. 5 Queens come out, each one transfusing the Nydus. There are now 5 Queens attacking Ryung's Marines/SCVs while he's still trying to bring down the full health Nydus. Roaches come out. GG. Maybe this is the most all-in build ever conceived by any Zerg and if Ryung had only scouted it and attacked into it, he would have won 100%, therefore it's balanced (I doubt all of these things)... but it looked broken as FUCK. The problem is abuse of transfusion, not the nydus. | ||
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FireCake
151 Posts
On October 19 2015 16:39 TedCruz2016 wrote: The problem is abuse of transfusion, not the nydus. The problem is that the terran players refuse to adapt to this new all in. Only one player provided a replay in which the terran played 3CCs 1/1/1 without reaper against nydus all in... | ||
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TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On October 19 2015 18:06 FireCake wrote: The problem is that the terran players refuse to adapt to this new all in. Only one player provided a replay in which the terran played 3CCs 1/1/1 without reaper against nydus all in... Queen, as a defending unit, should not be allowed to enter in a nydus, period! | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
That's like the most stupid idea i've seen by far in this topic. The way how player uses unit decides is it offensive or defensive. For example phoon cannon is defensive stat defence and it can be used to attack (cannon rush). And that's like the one of the many examples. Nydus allin is an allin. If it's scouted or one can prepare to defend it- Zerg is never gonna win. That's how allins work. Exept mass sentry/ blink stalker in ZvP in HOTS- dat u can scout and prepare and still die to it :-) And for the record- what's the point of placing nydus that cannot be transfused?- it still dies in a sec from few scv's attack- please... | ||
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Deleted User 329278
123 Posts
On October 16 2015 04:50 Heyjoray wrote: Its too much of a hindsight counter: "Well, you should scouted there and there and you should have had this and that and you would have defended!" lol this is exactly how it felt watching zerg die in pro games against terran and protoss during hots. so many insta win bo and game ending harass. now terrans and protoss be like "whut, i have to watch the f'*** out or i'll die?" the answer is: yes. welcome. | ||
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SC2Angora
53 Posts
I can understand than zerg player want have their freewin for the release but just be honest its so fucking retarted, you only see this on ladder and it make game absurd, I just watch the forgg stream 3 different player 3 ridiculous nydus all in who force Terran to blindly counter this ( Just like the adept warpprism ) and if the zerg go for another start youre basically dead because of your bad bo to counter this nonsense build... If the warpprism or doomdrop medivac was invincible to your queen mutas or whatever you want when they drop on the middle of your main you will be the first to cry and whine seriously just be honest... | ||
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Big J
Austria16289 Posts
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pure.Wasted
Canada4701 Posts
Things like Nydus and Warp-In are dangerous because they allow an aggressor to pseudo-commit resources to very heavy pressure, without taking on all of the risks that usually accompany such commitment. The units don't have to travel across the map - this reduces the area and time over which they can be scouted, it makes it impossible to damage/kill/distract them while they're en route. Newly produced units can be easily thrown into the all-in, so situations where the aggressor would normally have an advantage (that they would still have to not fuck up over the course of a macro game) turn into an outright victory. Often, they can bypass defender's advantage altogether by coming in from an angle that the Tanks/Bunkers aren't defending. These are all INCREDIBLY dangerous things that should not be thrown into a competitive game lightly. Making Nydus invincible, and Warp Prisms so cheap AND difficult to kill (range pickup, speed)? Yeah, that's pretty blase. | ||
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hiroshOne
Poland424 Posts
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todespolka
221 Posts
On October 16 2015 05:06 SC2Angora wrote: Its just a freewin bo right now that come way too fast, even a surround with vcs marine and helion dont kill hit because the Heal can heal the nydus, i think is quite op right now, the best should be to remove invulnerability but at least make the nydus impossible to transfuse... Dont overexaggerate! Something like this happens only if you miss the nydus. But in that case you are right. You cant kill it with a small army as in the past (like 3-4 marins or 10 workers, compare it to medivac drops) but you can hold it. Also consider that units get out one by one slowly. You wont really lose units if you have the critical number (which isnt your whole army!). If you compare it to medivac drops and how much you need to stop that you will start to understand that the nydus isnt unfair. | ||
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A.Alm
Sweden506 Posts
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Daizer
69 Posts
It was said in the video, when beta starte. Its the same as a doom drop from medivacs or doom drop with prism on 7gates | ||
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