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Whitewing
United States7483 Posts
On October 21 2015 08:12 InfCereal wrote: Neither do hero units, the mothership core still exists. Of course they can, they fit in just fine in WC3. Speaking in absolutes and sweeping generalizations gets you nowhere. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 21 2015 06:35 Eiltonn wrote: Didnt even bother to argue when his point was to create a BO to counter the overlord lol. The point isn´t even countering the nydus, the point is this invincible concept doesn´t fit in competitive games. So an ability whos exit point can not be damaged until it erupts does not fit in a competitive game, but dropships who can miraculously spawn units, and drop ships that have nitro boost to where you can't even catch them if microed properly DO belong in the game? Whether we like it or not, these type of abilities are what the game is balanced around. Now I do completely think Nydus should not be able to be healed by Queens. That would fix all balance issues imo. But the nydus itself? It's pretty easy to take out unless you don't scout it at all during setup time, which is basicalyl the same as a warp prism, except not a flying unit with even less health and an alert before it exists. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 21 2015 12:58 Spyridon wrote: So an ability whos exit point can not be damaged until it erupts does not fit in a competitive game, but dropships who can miraculously spawn units, and drop ships that have nitro boost to where you can't even catch them if microed properly DO belong in the game? Whether we like it or not, these type of abilities are what the game is balanced around.. Well, the point of arguments in this thread is that they haven't balanced around nydus and that's a problem. They can make sweeping changes to a lot of things and balance around it or they can just remove invulnerability. We've got three weeks and they're not interested in the former. On October 21 2015 12:58 Spyridon wrote:Now I do completely think Nydus should not be able to be healed by Queens. That would fix all balance issues imo. But the nydus itself? It's pretty easy to take out unless you don't scout it at all during setup time, which is basicalyl the same as a warp prism, except not a flying unit with even less health and an alert before it exists. Even without the heal they still hit too early and cause all sorts of negative consequences for at least TvZ. And they're not the same as a warp prism. Warp prisms can carry 8 food and is limited by gateway warp in. Nydus can transport the entire army. | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:05 TheWinks wrote: Well, the point of arguments in this thread is that they haven't balanced around nydus and that's a problem. They can make sweeping changes to a lot of things and balance around it or they can just remove invulnerability. We've got three weeks and they're not interested in the former. Likewise my point is simple. Aside from Queens being able to spam heal on Nydus (which should be fixed), if Prisms and Medivacs are balanced, then Nydus is balanced too. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:07 Spyridon wrote: Likewise my point is simple. Aside from Queens being able to spam heal on Nydus (which should be fixed), if Prisms and Medivacs are balanced, then Nydus is balanced too. The medivacs required to transport a big army take a long time to build. Prisms can only warp in units based on available gateways. The problem with the nydus right now is the extreme reduction of counterplay despite seeing it because it's invulnerable, the timing that it hits at, and the fact you can transport the entire army through it. You can let it hit at the same timing and let it transport the entire army through it, but the player it's being used against should be allowed to react to it and stop it. And if they're not, well, you need to shove that timing back and/or nerf it in some other way. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
I used to always do mass nydus strategy vs mech in WoL and HoTS and had extreme success at the high master / low GM level. I haven't gotten it to work a single time in LoTV, trying multiple times, everytime the Terran just picks up their tanks and drops them while putting a million liberator targets. DTs have always made it suck vs Protoss though  | ||
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Spyridon
United States997 Posts
On October 21 2015 13:10 TheWinks wrote: The medivacs required to transport a big army take a long time to build. Prisms can only warp in units based on available gateways. The problem with the nydus right now is the extreme reduction of counterplay despite seeing it because it's invulnerable, the timing that it hits at, and the fact you can transport the entire army through it. You can let it hit at the same timing and let it transport the entire army through it, but the player it's being used against should be allowed to react to it and stop it. And if they're not, well, you need to shove that timing back and/or nerf it in some other way. If you can not heal them (as I have suggested), what would be stopping you from reacting to it? | ||
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avilo
United States4100 Posts
On October 20 2015 17:16 FireCake wrote: Funny how your thoughts change faster than writing a post. 2 more posts and you will declare nydus all in useless. This is the same for any races and probably any competitive games, if you make mistakes your opponent may takes the lead. I was talking about harass with liberator and i explained you how it's not possible not to do damage... Unless you are doing a big mistake. You can make 1 or 2 base liberator in every ZvT, no matter your opponent build, if you don't do silly mistakes, you can transition into a macro game. Sorry but you have no clue what you are talking about. Having an untargettable building in an RTS game like this that can then be instantly transfused is not anything anyone can defend being in SC2. I'm sure you and other people are enjoying getting freewins with a bullshit mechanic equivalent to an unstoppable airstrike in command and conquer games, but this is Starcraft2, a game meant to be determined by skill and speed - not bullshit game mechanics. Btw you also have no clue about liberators either. There are a ton of Zerg builds that completely negate liberator openers quite easily. How do i know such things? Maybe try playing Terran for once so you aren't so biased. Liberators are OP tbh, but so are broodlord+viper, and carrier/tempests. Air units in this game are all pretty much bullshit right now tho that's a discussion for another topic. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
And Avilo also admitting (for ONCE in history of TL) that Liberators are OP. Also unbelievable. Stunned twice from one post.... | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
Avilo accusing other posters of being biased, this is rich. Unbelieveable. What's really unbelievable is that this is coming from you. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On October 22 2015 01:22 Athenau wrote: What's really unbelievable is that this is coming from you. Same goes for you. But me on the other hand, at least I play the race I advocate against. | ||
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Athenau
569 Posts
Same goes for you. But me on the other hand, at least I play the race I advocate against. Do you even read your posts, or do you just roll your face across the keyboard and call it a day? User was warned for this post | ||
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Garemie
United States248 Posts
I don't really want to make a correlation or say it needs to be changed, but it feels like a similar thing to me. | ||
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mrjimp
Sweden14 Posts
You cant say its harder to take out an overlord than to take out a medivac or a warp prism. | ||
Liquid`Snute
Norway839 Posts
http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/20808178?t=1h49m34s LOL | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20309 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:22 Liquid`Snute wrote: I recommend watching this short clip ... http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/20808178?t=1h49m34s LOL Yeah anyone playing the beta a significant amount at a high level has seen this | ||
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PinoKotsBeer
Netherlands1385 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:22 Liquid`Snute wrote: I recommend watching this short clip ... http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/20808178?t=1h49m34s LOL Lol, that makes me cry | ||
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Cyro
United Kingdom20309 Posts
I don't neccesarily disagree with that, but the way it happens in particular and some other racial dynamics makes it feel pretty bad | ||
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danl9rm
United States3111 Posts
I don't know. I don't have enough experience with it either way. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On October 22 2015 07:22 Liquid`Snute wrote: I recommend watching this short clip ... http://www.twitch.tv/basetradetv/v/20808178?t=1h49m34s LOL So zergs honestly argue that this is on the same level as medivac drops and warpprisms? .. ok. To be on the same level, you'd need flying mules behind the medivacs, healing them faster than you can kill them. While they're invincible on their way into your base. This might be the dumbest mechanic i've ever seen. Maybe the threat of it will keep terrans from opening so greedily? I mean, don't just build 4 hellions and expect to hold it off I guess. It's a surround by 15 scvs, 5 hellions and a banshee. And that's with warning that it's coming. | ||
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