Nydus Worm shouldnt stay like that - Page 6

On October 20 2015 05:58 FireCake wrote:
What did we learn in this topic so far ? There is finally one build that can punish triple CC 1/1/1 build, Thanks God !

On October 20 2015 06:04 TheWinks wrote:

Do you not realize why this has been standard for years? And why your advocacy for 2 CC builds is a bad idea? These are not rhetorical questions.

On October 20 2015 06:10 FireCake wrote:


Games are a lot more fun with 1 or 2 base builds.

The "standard" play means nothing in LoTv, too many things have changed.
What you don't want to accept is that 1 or 2 base terran builds are viable because in the worst case they force the zerg to commit a lot of ressources in defense and thus slow zerg economy.

On October 20 2015 05:59 BreakfastBurrito wrote:
saw some nydus shenanigans on forGG's stream the other day, looks pretty strong, but it also made for some really dynamic and fun games (he won by using his scvs and liberators really well) idk if we know enough to make a balance call at this point in time and i wouldn't want to nerf something that could potentially make for some cool games.

On October 20 2015 06:21 TheWinks wrote:

I also disagree that frequent, fast 1 or 2 base all ins are a lot more fun as a player and a viewer. Let's not transport back to early Wings.

On October 20 2015 07:57 varsovie wrote:
Problem isn't nydus, it's Queen's heal being instant. Give it save HP regen, but over 5-10 seconds non-stackable.

On October 20 2015 04:26 RewardedFool wrote:
I have 3 suggestions to offer:

1. Remove invincibility and replace with 6 armour for the burrowing nydus worm, this'll make it a lot harder to kill before it's up, but still allows someone who scouts it to actually defend, it's pretty close as to whether you can out damage 2 queens transfusing as it is, this'll make it easier.

2. Make Nydus worms untransfusable but still invincible before they unburrow, this will totally remove all the problems for other races, but might make Worms too all-in again, could be compensated by armour.

3. Different prices for nydus worms on creep and off creep, make Nydus worms placed on creep cost 25/25 (or something else low) to give nydus worms a purpose, but keep nydus worms off creep at current cost but remove invincibility.

(Unspoken option 4. Remove them completely)

I like option 1 or 2 the best, something definitely needs to be done, some of the games in Leifeng Cups have been really silly.

On October 20 2015 08:44 haiyeah wrote:
Terran have the ability to wall in and use bunkers because without them the Zerg army can get to the weaker units early on and kill them. This is why Hellion play is so dominant in openings. Speedlings absolutely wreck marines on the map early so Terran have to use Hellions to move out on the map. Due to this Roach bane all ins became very good because roaches shred marines and hellions, and Terran won't have a healthy marauder count. So Terran have to rely on bunkers, scvs, and micro to survive.

The nydus worm means Zerg can just bypass all of this way too early and it basically destroys the meta of the matchup. TvZ has always been one of the better and more stable matchups, so this is obviously terrible. I would like to ask any Zerg defending the current nydus, if they feel skillful when they win with a nydus all in? Winning is winning of course, and there are many ways to win with skill. But I'm hard pressed to believe that making the choice to nydus, and beating someone who made the wrong choice is skillful. Pressing a few buttons to make a portal of units spawn in situations where T vs Z units literally can't go toe for toe is really bad design. It means the ENTIRE game comes down to whether or not the Terran player reacts in the allotted time frame, and has built the correct units.

There needs to be logic in the design and there is none. If the Nydus is supposed to function like doom drops then it has failed currently. A doom drop in any other situation allows for viable counter attacks and base trades, but when it comes this early, you really think countering is a choice? There is nothing to punish, if it fails you might be ahead, but the Zerg only loses the cost, and the Terran usually won't be able to capitalise too hard, because the Zerg will still have the units they wanted to send through. So either let the units in and have them do at least some damage, or deny the Nydus and still be unable to attack because they have an army, ludicrous.

Blizzard, if you are so insistent on allowing races to have game ending strategies that revolve around one dimensional choices, then please reduce bunker cost and take away salvage. Salvage is silly, having to have 1 - 2 bunkers at the front, and ideally 1 - 2 in your main can equal the cost of a CC. And when you salvage them the minerals are much less significant because of being in later stages of the game. This change would not make bunker rushes more OP (just the econ behind them), but suddenly it wouldn't be so crippling to defend against all this bullshit like rounds of warp ins in your main, or nydus worms. What the hell is the point of the Terran race if everyone has a way of bypassing its defences? It baffles me.

On October 20 2015 06:48 FireCake wrote:



1 or 2 base build from terran players are not all ins !!!
Terrans players transition into macro game during their harass.

On October 20 2015 09:41 InfCereal wrote:
It's not invincible. It's not there. There is no unit there. Try clicking on it. Check the map editor. There is no unit there, just a map effect.

On October 20 2015 09:15 avilo wrote:
It's impossible to defend something with no counter play being in SC2. Nothing in this game should be invincible even if you see it right in the center of your base as it's happening.

It would be like making ghosts invincible while nuking and claming it's fine lol.

This build is broken to the point i play people that purposely try to troll me when i'm streaming abusing this build because they know even if you know it's coming it's incredibly difficult to stop.