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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
Yep my bad its 2 times, but i have a feeling it will be the 3 TvT finals. Also i saw your matches vs nerchio and railgan. You threw the games vs nerchio just because it was lycan league just to make people think liberators is okay but you smashed railgan on ladder with the same strategy. So hard trying to hide thigs... | ||
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91matt
United Kingdom147 Posts
On August 09 2015 01:20 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote: Yep my bad its 2 times, but i have a feeling it will be the 3 TvT finals. Also i saw your matches vs nerchio and railgan. You threw the games vs nerchio just because it was lycan league just to make people think liberators is okay but you smashed railgan on ladder with the same strategy. So hard trying to hide thigs... It's a conspiricy | ||
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jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote: Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors. The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything. The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue. "The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know." Both of these statements are true, the Liberator is an awesome unit design wise but it's totally obvious that Blizzard over buffed it so it would see use. Much like the Lurker, it's time to start dialing back these super powerful beta units until they have a strong but balanced place in the metagame. Liberators have absolutely no cons, only pros, great against air, great synergy with Siege Tanks, can snipe a Queen in 2 shots, fantastic with Hellbats (these pushes hit so fast and so strong that I'm kinda left scratching my head in alot of cases) Good units still need to have cons, the Liberator needs to come out later or be tech lab only on Starport with a nerf to it's radius thing on the ground mode, the Siege Tank of the air shouldn't outshine the Siege Tank on the ground. | ||
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TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On August 09 2015 01:28 jpg06051992 wrote: "The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know." The liberator and the banshee have two different roles and strengths. The combination of evoless spores, the economy changes, and the meta/balance in legacy discourages early banshee use in the matchup. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On August 09 2015 02:09 TheWinks wrote: The liberator and the banshee have two different roles and strengths. The combination of evoless spores, the economy changes, and the meta/balance in legacy discourages early banshee use in the matchup. Not really both banshee and liberator have the same roles, to do the economic damage the problem is a Liberator is 10x times better on harassing then a banshee, and way stronger with hellbats. Thus no one would make banshee. The only reason you would make a banshee is when you get the speed upgrade way latter in the game, but even then massing liberators is a better idea. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
Nope its reality, another TvT final. http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Lycan_League_Weekly/August/2 | ||
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Honeybadger
United States821 Posts
The beta meta (ha pun) is just too volatile to make most design tweaks you're inferring. It's the reason we now have underpowered seige tanks, people in wings beta just didn't understand that the beautiful thing about starcraft, particularly brood war, was that the game more or less balanced itself, with VERY little input from blizzard. The liberator, for example, seems to be fixed in an economic damage context by map design opening up the space behind minerals more to allow a spore/cannon/turret to be placed within range of a lib at max range on a mineral line. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
And now three times ! yay totally balanced ! | ||
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AdrianHealeyy
114 Posts
Although, given liberators, I am a bit puzzled by why anyone would open banshee. Is there any situation where banshee is stronger than liberator? | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On August 15 2015 09:29 AdrianHealeyy wrote: Liberator is strong, but ravagers seem to counter it thus far (at my level.) Although, given liberators, I am a bit puzzled by why anyone would open banshee. Is there any situation where banshee is stronger than liberator? There is no reason for banshee since you are looking for drone kills not destroying a hatch at 5 min mark. Also the problem is that no matter what, your behind even if you defend liberator.... also liberator + cyclone is just broken. You should watch the vods from redbull tournament after it ends. http://www.twitch.tv/redbullesports Vibe explained 100% why its broken, even the other caster understood why. | ||
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DooMDash
United States1015 Posts
I just hope they don't remove the splash dmg vs air, right now besides some lucky mines this is the only unit I think Terran has vs mass carriers (and you need critical mass). TL:DR I think they are fine, but I could live with them changing the ground attack to be about 1 minute later. They are really powerful but they have lots of weak spots. | ||
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ZergLingShepherd1
404 Posts
On August 16 2015 01:43 DooMDash wrote: I'm a 100% mech player in all match ups (high diamond right now, ex masters), with over 300 games played this season. I think that some timing attacks will be too strong vs Zerg, especially if they don't pick the right comp, so I'd say the only real place Liberators are OP is early game. Maybe it should be an armory requirement plus a cheap research that takes some time for the ground attack. I'd like them to still be able to be made just as fast, since muta's usually are arriving in my base when I have 2 of them, and the AA is fine, it's the ground attack that comes out early. I just hope they don't remove the splash dmg vs air, right now besides some lucky mines this is the only unit I think Terran has vs mass carriers (and you need critical mass). TL:DR I think they are fine, but I could live with them changing the ground attack to be about 1 minute later. They are really powerful but they have lots of weak spots. Design wise liberator is okay.... the problem is the ground damage is to much and they are to early. Like qxc said it... its like having tanks at barracks... its way to early. | ||
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HailHydras
17 Posts
An easy fix would be to town down the AG mode, since 80 damage or more in 1 shot is not good design and make this unit be at tech lab... with a simple research to get the AG mode. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
1. The radius of the target field stays the same, but it is displayed as being .1 or .2 larger than it really is. There are a lot of cases where it looks like a unit isn't actually within the circle, but then it gets fired upon anyway, and I think the margin of ambiguity should fall upon units not getting obliterated when it looks like they shouldn't be. 2. The Liberator fires before it looks like the targeting circle is done animating. The animation should be sped up a fraction of a second. 3. Similarly, units can run surprisingly far out of the circle and still get hit by a shot. I think the attack animation should commence slightly quicker, and if units escape the circle before a certain point in the animation (maybe the "standard" damage point of .167?), the attack animation should be canceled or forced to retarget to a different unit within the circle. | ||
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parkufarku
882 Posts
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MapleLeafSirup
Germany950 Posts
I am not speaking off mass LIberators, but just about 7-8 in addition to a standard bio army. They hard counter everything I do. First of all, they bust everything on the ground. Banelings and lurkers (which are supposed to be the answer to bio) can't do anything, they will just die if they attack. But even air units are not the answer. First of all, Liberators do surprisingly well against air, and secondly, well they are backed up by mass marines, so you can't just go muta. Also Parasitic bomb can't be the answer because it is just an overcommitment of ressources just for a few Liberators. | ||
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[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
On August 27 2015 03:57 parkufarku wrote: Any updates on future nerfs to this unit? I'm surprised they didn't address it in the recent community announcement I was surprised too. It obviously hits far too early (and far too hard if you ask me). Huge toning down is to be expected. | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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parkufarku
882 Posts
On August 28 2015 02:55 summerloud wrote: how about having the liberator anti-ground require fusion core instead of armory, and having the banshee speed upgrade require armory instead of fusion core? would that balance those two units out? there are two major complaints: it comes too early, and it is too powerful for its cost fusion core would be the first correct step but would only address the early timing of the unit. i think hard numbers would have to be tweaked for this unit to make any sense, or else we will see warhound 2.0 | ||
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Little-Chimp
Canada948 Posts
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