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On July 29 2015 11:17 TedCruz2016 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 11:10 shin_toss wrote:
I think everything about Liberator is okay right now except for it comes out pretty fast. Imo the research for AG mode should be a requirement again. Just did a build like 1base 1-1-1 + armory then put 1 liberator on each Z base and he cant do anything anymore. It shouldn't be too good against corruptor. At least not without a large number. If there's no such changes, perhaps ravager's shot would get a longer range, then the problem is solved.
The range of the ravager is not the problem in my opinion, more the time for the attack to hit.
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On July 29 2015 10:12 jpg06051992 wrote:
I'm more so struggling with Liberators in the later macro game stages, beefy, good air attack, and the radius on the ground thing is utterly absurd combined with tanks and planetaries, you simply cannot attack into a Terran army period.
Liberator ground mode and Parasitic Bomb both need a good smackin with the nerf bat, this isn't a learn to play issue like the Lurkers, these abilities are just stupid strong.
I've had some success against liberator / cyclone heavy comps with broodlord / corruptor / viper / queen. DIfficult to get to the comp but strong when you get it.
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On July 29 2015 22:56 crazedrat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 10:12 jpg06051992 wrote:
I'm more so struggling with Liberators in the later macro game stages, beefy, good air attack, and the radius on the ground thing is utterly absurd combined with tanks and planetaries, you simply cannot attack into a Terran army period.
Liberator ground mode and Parasitic Bomb both need a good smackin with the nerf bat, this isn't a learn to play issue like the Lurkers, these abilities are just stupid strong. I've had some success against liberator / cyclone heavy comps with broodlord / corruptor / viper / queen. DIfficult to get to the comp but strong when you get it.
yeah sorry but liberator / cyclones comes out a lot earlier than broodlord / corrupter / vipers
cyclones and WMs were bad enough, now comes another ridiculously broken Terran unit.
Can someone remind me why T needed another new unit when Zerg only has 10?
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On July 30 2015 06:22 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 22:56 crazedrat wrote:On July 29 2015 10:12 jpg06051992 wrote:
I'm more so struggling with Liberators in the later macro game stages, beefy, good air attack, and the radius on the ground thing is utterly absurd combined with tanks and planetaries, you simply cannot attack into a Terran army period.
Liberator ground mode and Parasitic Bomb both need a good smackin with the nerf bat, this isn't a learn to play issue like the Lurkers, these abilities are just stupid strong. I've had some success against liberator / cyclone heavy comps with broodlord / corruptor / viper / queen. DIfficult to get to the comp but strong when you get it. yeah sorry but liberator / cyclones comes out a lot earlier than broodlord / corrupter / vipers cyclones and WMs were bad enough, now comes another ridiculously broken Terran unit. Can someone remind me why T needed another new unit when Zerg only has 10?
Oh, come on, every hatchery and lair unit except muta can morph into something else! The amount is far more than 10.
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On July 30 2015 06:22 parkufarku wrote:Show nested quote +On July 29 2015 22:56 crazedrat wrote:On July 29 2015 10:12 jpg06051992 wrote:
I'm more so struggling with Liberators in the later macro game stages, beefy, good air attack, and the radius on the ground thing is utterly absurd combined with tanks and planetaries, you simply cannot attack into a Terran army period.
Liberator ground mode and Parasitic Bomb both need a good smackin with the nerf bat, this isn't a learn to play issue like the Lurkers, these abilities are just stupid strong. I've had some success against liberator / cyclone heavy comps with broodlord / corruptor / viper / queen. DIfficult to get to the comp but strong when you get it. yeah sorry but liberator / cyclones comes out a lot earlier than broodlord / corrupter / vipers cyclones and WMs were bad enough, now comes another ridiculously broken Terran unit. Can someone remind me why T needed another new unit when Zerg only has 10?
Yeah I try to find an attack to transition into it. Depends on map and what he's building.. generally if he's building liberators / cyclone / other units without sufficient tank support a mass hydra attack does very well.
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Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue.
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Against that a mass roach attack can be good
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On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote:
Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue.
The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful.
Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know.
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On July 31 2015 22:28 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote:
Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue. The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know.
Uh ... for cloak, the ability to attack buildings - and the potential to fly fast upon the speed upgrade? Besides, the tech is not early. You still need armory to unlock the AG mode, so that basically puts the liberator and the banshee on the same tech level as both need one building to unlock.
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On July 31 2015 23:15 TedCruz2016 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2015 22:28 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote:
Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue. The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know. Uh ... for cloak, the ability to attack buildings - and the potential to fly fast upon the speed upgrade? Besides, the tech is not early. You still need armory to unlock the AG mode, so that basically puts the liberator and the banshee on the same tech level as both need one building to unlock.
Have you seen a banshee since Liberator ? Liberators does more damage with the hellbats, since queens are zoned out.
That early on you want to kill economy not buildings.
Its at 5 min, its really early even QxC admited the tech is to early.
Banshee might be relevant after the upgrade at fusion core, its a maybe, but still teching to that when you can mass liberators, its a crazy ideea not worth doing it when ultralisk is so powerful in the late game.
No matter how you look at it... Liberator is to OP it needs tweaking and a research upgrade for the AG.
If they stay at this tech they will get huge nerfs in the DPS and other areas... and it would kill the idea of having a strong siege unit.
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On July 31 2015 23:25 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2015 23:15 TedCruz2016 wrote:On July 31 2015 22:28 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote:
Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue. The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know. Uh ... for cloak, the ability to attack buildings - and the potential to fly fast upon the speed upgrade? Besides, the tech is not early. You still need armory to unlock the AG mode, so that basically puts the liberator and the banshee on the same tech level as both need one building to unlock. Have you seen a banshee since Liberator ? Liberators does more damage with the hellbats, since queens are zoned out. That early one you want to kill economy not buildings. Its at 5 min, its really early even QxC admited the tech is to early. Banshee might be relevant after the upgrade at fusion core, its a maybe, but still teching to that when you can mass liberators, its a crazy ideea not worth doing it when ultralisk is so powerful in the late game. No matter how you look at it... Liberator is to OP it needs tweaking and a research upgrade for the AG. If they stay at this tech they will get huge nerfs in the DPS and other areas... and it would kill the idea of having a strong siege unit.
Well, perhaps its AA attack will be nerfed so they can be countered by corruptors and voidrays, but the AG mode will stay the same. Nonetheless its AG mode gets buffed in the latest patch, which is not likely be undone.
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On July 31 2015 23:41 TedCruz2016 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2015 23:25 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 31 2015 23:15 TedCruz2016 wrote:On July 31 2015 22:28 ZergLingShepherd1 wrote:On July 30 2015 18:43 Buddy168 wrote:
Faced a Terran that opened up blue flame hellion/lib before going into tanks and thors.
The result is an almost impossible to engage mech army that can and will sit outside your base. While I feel that if you micro the situation perfectly then it's manageable that's the case for literally everything in SC2 and doesn't really mean anything.
The zoning potential is insane with the lib which imo is the biggest issue. The problem is that the tech is to early and to powerful. Why would anyone make a banshee now when you have Liberators... i dont know. Uh ... for cloak, the ability to attack buildings - and the potential to fly fast upon the speed upgrade? Besides, the tech is not early. You still need armory to unlock the AG mode, so that basically puts the liberator and the banshee on the same tech level as both need one building to unlock. Have you seen a banshee since Liberator ? Liberators does more damage with the hellbats, since queens are zoned out. That early one you want to kill economy not buildings. Its at 5 min, its really early even QxC admited the tech is to early. Banshee might be relevant after the upgrade at fusion core, its a maybe, but still teching to that when you can mass liberators, its a crazy ideea not worth doing it when ultralisk is so powerful in the late game. No matter how you look at it... Liberator is to OP it needs tweaking and a research upgrade for the AG. If they stay at this tech they will get huge nerfs in the DPS and other areas... and it would kill the idea of having a strong siege unit. Well, perhaps its AA attack will be nerfed so they can be countered by corruptors and voidrays, but the AG mode will stay the same. Nonetheless its AG mode gets buffed in the latest patch, which is not likely be undone.
Its not about counters, they have counters but they are not as early as them.
AG can stay as it is only if its later in the game.
It 1 shots hydra man at 5 min in the game, think about that and look in this thread, someone posted places that you can use dead space so early on to kill mineral lines without the enemy being able to do anything.... making static D useless
Remember when cyclones forced protoss go stargate every game... its the same thing... 2 base muta all day.
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Liberator or not, I think Terran is the strongest race in archon anyway. Race has much more potential imo.
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On August 01 2015 10:37 Beastyqt wrote:Wrong, two times.
I hope you're speaking as if it wasn't sarcasm for ZLS1.
The liberator is a band aid, there's better ways about changing mech and giving terran more effective strategies than turtle mech and bio, the liberator is not it.
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On August 01 2015 09:28 Zode wrote:
Liberator or not, I think Terran is the strongest race in archon anyway. Race has much more potential imo.
Fixed
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On August 01 2015 10:37 Beastyqt wrote:Wrong, two times.
So T is imbalanced and Liberators and Cyclones need changes ? 
To be honest I think Liberators and Cyclones need tweaks. Liberator tech hits too early IMO and bio + liberator is incredibly strong vs P. I guess it shouldn't be reactorable and an upgrade at tech lab could help. The cyclone just feels too all-around and massable once it has upgraded air, I think its ground weapon should be fairly weak to leave some place for a maybe buffed tank.
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Faced a double starport opening. where he just kept sending more and more Liberators, I basically tried to just keep up queen production and get spores. while I tried pressuring back with bane/ling.
Now, we were both weak players but it felt ridiculous, I trashed his economy a number of times but never enough to finish the game and he just kept making more and more liberators to the point nothing, and I do mean nothing will be able to kill them.
I truly wonder how does zerg deal with 10+ liberators.
Infestors will never get close enough, mutas and even corruptors are a joke, hydras are so bad it's not even funny.
Occasionally he would suicide a few to clean up my mining lines.
I'm obviously not good enough to give a final judgment, but it seems OP as hell.
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On August 02 2015 19:13 IcemanAsi wrote:
Faced a double starport opening. where he just kept sending more and more Liberators, I basically tried to just keep up queen production and get spores. while I tried pressuring back with bane/ling.
Now, we were both weak players but it felt ridiculous, I trashed his economy a number of times but never enough to finish the game and he just kept making more and more liberators to the point nothing, and I do mean nothing will be able to kill them.
I truly wonder how does zerg deal with 10+ liberators.
Infestors will never get close enough, mutas and even corruptors are a joke, hydras are so bad it's not even funny.
Occasionally he would suicide a few to clean up my mining lines.
I'm obviously not good enough to give a final judgment, but it seems OP as hell.
"Make more spores and queens"
"Queens are amazing anti-air fighting units with their massive DPS"
"Liberators are slow, make more ravagers"
- Terran posters here
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EPT
