|
On July 24 2015 05:57 parkufarku wrote:
Avilo: "Spores counter them!!! Queens are also ridiculously effective against them!"
Every non-T biased poster: "Uhhh no, Zerg actually doesnt have proper anti-air since liberators can out-range if placed in some positions, and even if you tech to Mutas, mass liberators shred mass mutas"
I don't see why you guys even bother replying to Avilo. He clearly has a Terran-based agenda
EDIT: Yes, thanks for the pictures. That should shut up the Terrans who are claiming spores are great against them.
I say that because spores do work...played many Zergs already that just put 1 spore (sometimes 2?) at the front of their base when they see it's a liberator coming to their base...and you won't do any damage versus the Zerg if they know what they're doing.
It's just like a cloak banshee...you build spores...i don't understand why some people here think building a spore crawler is bad and you autolose from building a spore or something...you guys all realize that vs cloak banshee you have to build the same amount of spores you do vs liberators...right?
|
Czech Republic12129 Posts
On July 24 2015 17:32 avilo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 05:57 parkufarku wrote:
Avilo: "Spores counter them!!! Queens are also ridiculously effective against them!"
Every non-T biased poster: "Uhhh no, Zerg actually doesnt have proper anti-air since liberators can out-range if placed in some positions, and even if you tech to Mutas, mass liberators shred mass mutas"
I don't see why you guys even bother replying to Avilo. He clearly has a Terran-based agenda
EDIT: Yes, thanks for the pictures. That should shut up the Terrans who are claiming spores are great against them. I say that because spores do work...played many Zergs already that just put 1 spore (sometimes 2?) at the front of their base when they see it's a liberator coming to their base...and you won't do any damage versus the Zerg if they know what they're doing. It's just like a cloak banshee...you build spores...i don't understand why some people here think building a spore crawler is bad and you autolose from building a spore or something...you guys all realize that vs cloak banshee you have to build the same amount of spores you do vs liberators...right?
Have you actually seen the pictures?
|
I totally can see the problem here. But I think it is defendable if you scout it soon enough and go for vipers.
I know this tech comes a bit later but Terran has to sacrifice a lot of eco so you can do pressure while teaching to vipers.Also important: if u react quickly you won't lose any drones you will just lose mining time. Just build hatches and transfer the drones away until you have vipers, either with Queens, spores or Hydras. they will fuck the liberators. Also vipers are so good in lotv (imbalanced?) that you can use them pretty much in every situation later and you have already the hive tech requirement.
|
I hope they share their thoughts about Liberators and Cyclones in an upcoming update. Both units seem lamely designed, probably too powerful/all-around, and outshine the tank that should be the core of mech play. I'd rather see the tank wildly buffed and those units nerfed than the current situation.
|
On July 24 2015 18:40 etsharry wrote:
I totally can see the problem here. But I think it is defendable if you scout it soon enough and go for vipers.
I know this tech comes a bit later but Terran has to sacrifice a lot of eco so you can do pressure while teaching to vipers.Also important: if u react quickly you won't lose any drones you will just lose mining time. Just build hatches and transfer the drones away until you have vipers, either with Queens, spores or Hydras. they will fuck the liberators. Also vipers are so good in lotv (imbalanced?) that you can use them pretty much in every situation later and you have already the hive tech requirement.
Wait, what are you talking about, vipers against Liberator has a lategame plan, which i agree with, or Viper against what this topic is about, i.e. the two bases liberator builds?
|
On July 24 2015 19:05 Vanadiel wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 18:40 etsharry wrote:
I totally can see the problem here. But I think it is defendable if you scout it soon enough and go for vipers.
I know this tech comes a bit later but Terran has to sacrifice a lot of eco so you can do pressure while teaching to vipers.Also important: if u react quickly you won't lose any drones you will just lose mining time. Just build hatches and transfer the drones away until you have vipers, either with Queens, spores or Hydras. they will fuck the liberators. Also vipers are so good in lotv (imbalanced?) that you can use them pretty much in every situation later and you have already the hive tech requirement. Wait, what are you talking about, vipers against Liberator has a lategame plan, which i agree with, or Viper against what this topic is about, i.e. the two bases liberator builds?
Why not against 2 base? IT is fastet than mutas.
|
On July 24 2015 19:42 etsharry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 19:05 Vanadiel wrote:On July 24 2015 18:40 etsharry wrote:
I totally can see the problem here. But I think it is defendable if you scout it soon enough and go for vipers.
I know this tech comes a bit later but Terran has to sacrifice a lot of eco so you can do pressure while teaching to vipers.Also important: if u react quickly you won't lose any drones you will just lose mining time. Just build hatches and transfer the drones away until you have vipers, either with Queens, spores or Hydras. they will fuck the liberators. Also vipers are so good in lotv (imbalanced?) that you can use them pretty much in every situation later and you have already the hive tech requirement. Wait, what are you talking about, vipers against Liberator has a lategame plan, which i agree with, or Viper against what this topic is about, i.e. the two bases liberator builds? Why not against 2 base? IT is fastet than mutas.
Am I understanding you correctly? Are you saying viper is faster than muta on 2 base?
|
On July 24 2015 19:42 etsharry wrote:Show nested quote +On July 24 2015 19:05 Vanadiel wrote:On July 24 2015 18:40 etsharry wrote:
I totally can see the problem here. But I think it is defendable if you scout it soon enough and go for vipers.
I know this tech comes a bit later but Terran has to sacrifice a lot of eco so you can do pressure while teaching to vipers.Also important: if u react quickly you won't lose any drones you will just lose mining time. Just build hatches and transfer the drones away until you have vipers, either with Queens, spores or Hydras. they will fuck the liberators. Also vipers are so good in lotv (imbalanced?) that you can use them pretty much in every situation later and you have already the hive tech requirement. Wait, what are you talking about, vipers against Liberator has a lategame plan, which i agree with, or Viper against what this topic is about, i.e. the two bases liberator builds? Why not against 2 base? IT is fastet than mutas.
Well, not at all, and it's muuuuch more expansive.
|
Fuck i am dumb, forgot you need hive. ..
|
Viper @ Lair, I would be okay with that. :D
|
why would they be OP in TvZ? zerg has ravagers to deal with them in the early-midd game and parasitic bomb in the lategame, its protoss that needs help against liberator + mine + bio comps.
|
On July 24 2015 20:52 TT1 wrote:
why would they be OP in TvZ? zerg has ravagers to deal with them in the early-midd game and parasitic bomb in the lategame, its protoss that needs help against liberator + mine + bio comps.
Did you go to page 8 and see the spots I posted? A liberator has enough time to unmorph before the bile hits which makes it not as effective as people are saying even more so when to be in range with the bile you have to walk into the range of the circle. Parabomb is great but it's counterable if they go for a 6 viking hit squad they can one shot the vipers not to mention that just spreading is effective, not saying para isn't very strong but it's not instawin like lots of people make out.
|
Next try xd: MIND CONTROL vs Liberator. 
|
the ravager attack is much slower to hit than the siege/unsiege of the liberator though, so it should never hit nor prevent the liberator to fire at least a couple of time. I agree it's probably more problematic for Protoss to deal with it,
for Zerg, possible easy and small fixes would be :
* Either slight buff to the ravager spell so it takes less time, or small nerf to the liberator by increasing the siege/unsiege time.
* fix the maps so there is no blind spot for the liberator, as very well illustrated by Ovid
* delay the timing of it. Maybe not revert to the tech lab to research the AtG attack, but make an armury requirement to be able to build the liberator?
|
Yeah, armory requirment for the liberator sounds like a really good solution. Then we can see how the liberator works without 2/3 TvZs currently being decided by liberator rushes.
|
Why is the same build not effective vs P? Because of phoenix?
|
On July 24 2015 23:18 mantequilla wrote:
Why is the same build not effective vs P? Because of phoenix?
Without being a TvP expert, Id say that the hellbat build is bad in TvP for various reasons. It dies to an oracle (cuts marines for reactored hellions), the hellion/hellbat part is easily shut down by MsC/Stalker and probably adepts as well and for anti air protoss can have phoenix/VR in time (which seems to be popular anyways due to cyclones) and photon overcharge and stalkers are probably quite a bit better against Liberators than the creepreliant and slower queen/spore combo. I guess against non stargate builds you can still abuse those siege locations from page 8 though, but I guess that comes down to scouting. Whether there are different strong liberator pushes or plays in that matchup Idk but to be honest I would be surprised if protoss players werent struggeling a bit against this unit too at the moment. In particular since they are enforced to play adeptheavy which provides less antiair and since liberators counter phoenixes in the bigger numbers (i guess. Havent tested it but the stats look like they work out that way)
|
On July 24 2015 06:11 Loccstana wrote:
These so called "broken spots" are just as easily used by Broodlords and Tempests. In fact they existed in maps dating all the way back to Broodwar. Did you know that a common tactic for Zerg in Broodwar ZvT is to morph mutas into guardians (equivalent to SC2's broodlords) behind the terran's natural and harass the mineral line in positions unreachable by marines? According to the logic of certain posters, this would so imba that Zerg would be unbeatable!
Lol if the zerg has guardians then the terran has science vessels. And guardians are not the equivalent of broodlords.
|
On July 24 2015 20:52 TT1 wrote:
why would they be OP in TvZ? zerg has ravagers to deal with them in the early-midd game and parasitic bomb in the lategame, its protoss that needs help against liberator + mine + bio comps.
I don't think Protoss needs help -Protoss actually feels like a much more interesting race in LotV-, I think Liberator needs nerfs. And Cyclone needs a nerf to the number of dots it produces, ridiculous.
|
It took me one game to realize that the liberator was a stupid as fuck unit. Anyone with any experience in tvz should be able to realize that countering liberators makes you completely vulnerable to every followup terran has, as well as puts you behind in economy. Glad to know that there's a dozen plus spots where the liberator is untouchable during the timeframe where it is strongest.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
