| Forum Index > Legacy of the Void |
|
Tyrhanius
France947 Posts
Lurker too strong vs ground, ravagers just average designed, same for adept, disruptor just literally a deathball lol, cyclon/liberator just too strong/uninteresting. A real balance patch for HOTS would have been way better than the actual direction of LOTV . and honestly it seems way too late now for hoping they can fix the game in this beta, when remaking more than half of the new units seems to be needed. | ||
|
Wrath
3174 Posts
On July 25 2015 06:04 Tyrhanius wrote: Honestly none of the new units added makes the game better, it feels it's just cause they must add two units to sell a new expansion so they just randomly creates new units... Lurker too strong vs ground, ravagers just average designed, same for adept, disruptor just literally a deathball lol, cyclon/liberator just too strong/uninteresting. A real balance patch for HOTS would have been way better than the actual direction of LOTV . and honestly it seems way too late now for hoping they can fix the game in this beta, when remaking more than half of the new units seems to be needed. That is because of the retarded design the game was built on. It is only natural that the new units will be mess and not doing the necessary job because the already units in the game is in a messy state. They needed to fix everything design wise before things become clear on what parts each race lacks and add units to fill those missing roles. | ||
|
parkufarku
882 Posts
On July 24 2015 21:42 Vanadiel wrote: the ravager attack is much slower to hit than the siege/unsiege of the liberator though, so it should never hit nor prevent the liberator to fire at least a couple of time. I agree it's probably more problematic for Protoss to deal with it, for Zerg, possible easy and small fixes would be : * Either slight buff to the ravager spell so it takes less time, or small nerf to the liberator by increasing the siege/unsiege time. * fix the maps so there is no blind spot for the liberator, as very well illustrated by Ovid * delay the timing of it. Maybe not revert to the tech lab to research the AtG attack, but make an armury requirement to be able to build the liberator? Or you could just nerf the OP unit instead of messing with a balanced unit used in response to the OP unit. | ||
|
TheWinks
United States572 Posts
On July 24 2015 21:42 Vanadiel wrote: the ravager attack is much slower to hit than the siege/unsiege of the liberator though Have you tried this? This isn't true. | ||
|
TT1
Canada10012 Posts
On July 24 2015 21:05 Ovid wrote: Did you go to page 8 and see the spots I posted? A liberator has enough time to unmorph before the bile hits which makes it not as effective as people are saying even more so when to be in range with the bile you have to walk into the range of the circle. Parabomb is great but it's counterable if they go for a 6 viking hit squad they can one shot the vipers not to mention that just spreading is effective, not saying para isn't very strong but it's not instawin like lots of people make out. uhh, no they dont | ||
|
Ovid
United Kingdom948 Posts
Uhh yes they do, bile takes 2.5 seconds and the unmorph is 1 second. To demonstrate here's it in action If time doesn't work go to 3h40mand30s. | ||
|
Prugelhugel
Austria637 Posts
The biggest problem is that it is virtually impossible to even cross their siege range, I am not even talking about fighting in it. This leads to several problems in different game stages: Early game - very map depending. On some maps it is quite easy to hold liberator harrass with no preparation, just by smartly positioning queens. On some other maps (huge airspace behind bases), it is virtually impossible to even prevent them from setting up with ravagers (the hard counter to small amounts of liberators, imo), tons of queens or a network of spores. This means that a terran going for liberator early on usually results in an akward situation - zerg being lucky and catching the liberator on his way to sieging up, therefore taking no damage and getting miles ahead due to the terran wasting so many ressources and tech on it. Or - terran being lucky and getting the liberator up and preventing mining in a whole mineral line. There is no skill involved, since both parties cannot actually do a lot, it just depends on the terran being lucky and avoiding defense until setup or the zerg being lucky and having the defense at the right place. Furthermore, there is no real counter and no real value of this thing. It is an air unit but just smashes Zergs airborne anti air units. In addition, it kills everything on the ground. If it is in the wrong mode, however, it goes down in an instant due to being a glas cannon and stacking while moving, since it is an air unit. This means that both the player using it and the player trying to stop it have to rely on being sneaky and gimmicky. And the worst thing is - have some of those things, some PFs, turrets, mines and tanks and you have the ultimate defense line. Mech terran vs. Zerg currently means turtling on 3 bases, massing Liberators and Cyclones and then slowly turtling from base to base. ZvM on hots was way more fun if you ask me. | ||
|
[PkF] Wire
France24237 Posts
The radius needs to be smaller, the DPS less ludicrous. I hope the Liberator and, less urgent, the Cyclone and its thousands of dots get addressed in the upcoming community update. "Mech" (had to put that in quotes, what comes out of factory/starport is not necessarily mech) in LotV has become something really ugly. | ||
|
TelecoM
United States10686 Posts
| ||
|
Isarios
United States153 Posts
On July 27 2015 04:33 GGzerG wrote: Liberators are so easy to deal with, 4 ravenger shots gg I think this is trolling. Even if its killed, its only 150 gas 150 mins. Can be reactored. Not GG for the rushing player in any case. -- Hello TL, How does one even deal with 1 base rushed Liberators as Z? What can hit the dead space? Also, what is with this unit. It doesn't fill any problem spots. It's super powerful. Its overlaps the Banshees place for much better. It can be reactored. Doesn't require a tech lab. Costs only 150 gas 150 mins. WHAT? I mean, they were ok, cool, tough to get with the tech lab research requirement. Now? Every terran I meet goes 1 base Liberators, expands in base, and laughs all day. | ||
|
The_Masked_Shrimp
425 Posts
On July 27 2015 03:41 [PkF] Wire wrote: Even from P's perspective, the Liberator is too strong. The amount of zone control it provides when in high enough numbers is just ridiculous, and on some maps there are crazy broken spots that you can't defend if you don't have air units. With proper support they just choke you and you can't hope to win. The radius needs to be smaller, the DPS less ludicrous. I hope the Liberator and, less urgent, the Cyclone and its thousands of dots get addressed in the upcoming community update. "Mech" (had to put that in quotes, what comes out of factory/starport is not necessarily mech) in LotV has become something really ugly. While you are at it, you should also suggest reducing their health, speed, base armor (-1), sieging and unsieging time, just to be fair. And mech is factory units, it used to be mainly siege tank because that was the main unit from there, and they had air support from vikings. Now it extends to cyclones/tanks with libe support. Having mainly units from the starport is skyterran, not mech. Mass raven viking is skyterran, not mech, but it transitions from mech usually. There are also viable hybrid comps now where you get almost as many liberators than tanks or cyclones, anyway terran armies are amongst the most diverse in LoTV so far while P and Z usually mass the same single unit; this is imo why they are complaining so much because they expect to beat a mixed composition by producing a single unit composition. I wouldn't mind having the air to ground upgrade comeb ack for the liberator, its main strength comes from how early it can get out. Also a smarter nerf would be to set the distance between the liberator and its zone so that the cases shown in page 8 can't happen. It's fine if hydra/stalker/queens are outranged but there shouldn't be spots where a libe can harass a line and no turret placement can reach the libe. And libe are expensive enough that you can respond with similar numbers of canons/spores without getting behind, so stop being greedy. | ||
|
Pirfiktshon
United States1072 Posts
Though I will say the power of the liberator is going to be completely determined by the map and zerg's reaction.... | ||
|
TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
| ||
|
RaiZ
2813 Posts
Edit : nvm | ||
|
crazedrat
272 Posts
| ||
|
RaiZ
2813 Posts
Not to mention there could be 2 liberators... Really annoying. | ||
|
crazedrat
272 Posts
| ||
|
jpg06051992
United States580 Posts
Liberator ground mode and Parasitic Bomb both need a good smackin with the nerf bat, this isn't a learn to play issue like the Lurkers, these abilities are just stupid strong. | ||
|
shin_toss
Philippines2589 Posts
| ||
|
TedCruz2016
Hong Kong271 Posts
On July 29 2015 11:10 shin_toss wrote: I think everything about Liberator is okay right now except for it comes out pretty fast. Imo the research for AG mode should be a requirement again. Just did a build like 1base 1-1-1 + armory then put 1 liberator on each Z base and he cant do anything anymore. It shouldn't be too good against corruptor. At least not without a large number. If there's no such changes, perhaps ravager's shot would get a longer range, then the problem is solved. | ||
| ||
StarCraft 2 StarCraft: Brood War Dota 2 Counter-Strike Super Smash Bros Heroes of the Storm Other Games |
|
Sparkling Tuna Cup
Ladder Legends
BSL 21
StRyKeR vs TBD
Bonyth vs TBD
Replay Cast
Wardi Open
Monday Night Weeklies
WardiTV Invitational
Replay Cast
WardiTV Invitational
ByuN vs Solar
Clem vs Classic
Cure vs herO
Reynor vs MaxPax
Replay Cast
|
|
|
EPT
