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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
On June 13 2015 06:10 alpenrahm wrote: What we want is a RTS game that has more emphasis on positional play rather then timing pushes. Why not positional timing pushes? | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 13 2015 06:06 alpenrahm wrote: This. If Blizzard wanted to do something about protoss then what they should try to do is; remove the marauder entirely or repurpose it, remove or rework the Roach, put warpgate higher up in the tech tree (starbow has it at the archives), remove combat shields and add in medics while stripping the heal from speedvacs. Check out starbow if you want to know more. Why shoul everything early-midgame be BW2/Starbow? I like some aspects of their design, but I aslo like SC2, specially medivacs over medics, since it makes BioMech way more viable. Maraiders removed an Medics in would add nothing good to SC2, and would remove much more of the flexibilty lf Terran. Whats more, it woul make banelings imba as hell.... Starbow is Starbow and BW is BW... dont expect to port things and have a miracle.... SC2 has very interesting points too sometimes. But they do some things bad like new Lurkers (much more deffensive than offensive) or dull mechanics. | ||
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Kranyum
77 Posts
Jeez, so surprised ppl want more useless units in this game... as if we dont have enough | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 14 2015 07:37 Kranyum wrote: How about just buff the stalker? Jeez, so surprised ppl want more useless units in this game... as if we dont have enough The Stalker and the goon have similar relative speed and similar damage. Slight advantage of hitpoints for goon and a slight DPS lead for the stalker--but the stalker has blink and the goon doesn't have anything. The Stalker is already the buffed goon. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 14 2015 12:54 Thieving Magpie wrote: The Stalker and the goon have similar relative speed and similar damage. Slight advantage of hitpoints for goon and a slight DPS lead for the stalker--but the stalker has blink and the goon doesn't have anything. The Stalker is already the buffed goon. Not really, they are possibly similar , but stalkers are obviously skill intensive to achieve their maximum shooting efficiency, while dragoons might feel a bit stronger since because of the damage system in BW, they dished out 15/20 damage per shot to most units (many air units, specially mutas), and scaled better in the lategame proportionally because of upgrades. However, they were far less dynamic. I think a small shield buff on stalkers could do it if, in any case, stalkers feel weak enough. But I think the problem is that Immortals are now improperly adjusted. | ||
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Moonsalt
267 Posts
On May 12 2015 06:38 Pontius Pirate wrote: I liked the blue blood and the voice acting. I don't think that's blue blood. I think's its the liquid inside which keeps the wounded protoss alive ;o | ||
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Kranyum
77 Posts
On June 14 2015 12:54 Thieving Magpie wrote: The Stalker and the goon have similar relative speed and similar damage. Slight advantage of hitpoints for goon and a slight DPS lead for the stalker--but the stalker has blink and the goon doesn't have anything. The Stalker is already the buffed goon. then why are people moaning about adding the dragoon? The unit is so similar to stalkers that it makes no sense. probably because relatively, units from other races have become stronger: MMM balls are a lot more scary than MM in brood war. The problem is the other races not the Stalker | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 14 2015 20:36 Kranyum wrote: then why are people moaning about adding the dragoon? The unit is so similar to stalkers that it makes no sense. probably because relatively, units from other races have become stronger: MMM balls are a lot more scary than MM in brood war. The problem is the other races not the Stalker What I miss was the scaling. Tanks and Goons were only outsized by Ultralisks. Now Stalkers look as big as Roaches and Hydralisks and Siege tanks look only slightly bigger than marauders. Give as that wide base back! (animation wise) | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43756 Posts
On May 12 2015 06:38 Pontius Pirate wrote: I liked the blue blood and the voice acting. I liked how it looked like a spider. It would be neat if Immortals had more prominent legs, and maybe deeper, hollow-sounding voice clips. But from a gameplay perspective, I find the Dragoon to be thoroughly inferior to having Stalkers and Immortals in the game on a very basic level. Agreed. We all loved Dragoons from BW, but it's definitely a nostalgia argument (blue blood, appearance, even its quirky movements) rather than an argument based on a need to fill a Protoss niche. We simply don't need them. They aren't going to solve a particular problem that Protoss has, or fill a particular hole in current Protoss unit compositions, unless you change them completely (as in: unless you no longer make them BW Dragoons). | ||
BisuDagger
Bisutopia19152 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 15 2015 01:43 BisuDagger wrote: Dragoons were awesome, but the stalker is a solid replacement. If stalkers became more stout in late game I wouldn't mind. The best BW units that could come into sc2 are the dark archon and arbiter. Both units don't rely on buggy AI for balance. But since the arbiter practically exist, the only unit left to bring over as the Dark Archon which could be adjusted for sc2. Why not have it attack like a dragoon but with a red ball. Slow attack high damage. And then give it a recharge ability which increase shield and energy regeneration on a target unit. And another ability where a unit is temporarily considered an ally. For example, if casted on a tank all unit on auto attack will attack the tank as it is marked as an enemy for three seconds. Bam! I just created a sick ass unit! I think that the problem is that the kind of unit you are definig would take nearly 300 gas, so it has to be brutal itself, with at least good mechanics to move around. Otherwise, will be shredded in 1 second by everything or EMPd'. Disruptors become invulnerable for a reason. | ||
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Foxxan
Sweden3427 Posts
It cant be a 100% bw copy. It did 20 dmg vs armored 15 vs medium 10 vs light It would have to do like 35 dmg to armored and 15-20 vs light. They get a passive effect to, an effect that when enemy units come close to it the units slow down a bit..Maybe is pushed back slightly to once every x sec. Maybe possible to walk through its own dragoons to make it microable in a slightly different and more effective way. (ability with no cooldown) | ||
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 15 2015 02:45 Foxxan wrote: Iam more curious how the dragoon would be implemented into this game. It cant be a 100% bw copy. It did 20 dmg vs armored 15 vs medium 10 vs light It would have to do like 35 dmg to armored and 15-20 vs light. They get a passive effect to, an effect that when enemy units come close to it the units slow down a bit..Maybe is pushed back slightly to once every x sec. Maybe possible to walk through its own dragoons to make it microable in a slightly different and more effective way. (ability with no cooldown) What you are describing is the old Immortal. However just before beta they felt immortals were expensive and unneficient, so they gave it 50 damage vs armor because that way it was justified for Protoss to pay for a unit that could be strong vs armored units like Roaches and beta Tanks. DK phiolosophy: "If it doesn't work well, make it stupidly strong". | ||
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DarkPlasmaBall
United States43756 Posts
On June 15 2015 04:47 summerloud wrote: dragoons were the worst unit in bw and thereis already too many dragoon-like (high hp, uninteresting, generic ranged) units in sc2 Somewhere out there, the Protoss Scout is breathing a sigh of relief. | ||
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 15 2015 05:06 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Somewhere out there, the Protoss Scout is breathing a sigh of relief. Infested Terran waves hi | ||
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Vansetsu
United States1452 Posts
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On July 25 2015 08:02 Vansetsu wrote: I don't see any mention of dragoon range. That's the big key difference compared to the stalker. In BW, you couldn't use marines to fight dragooons with range. Obviously concussive an help with that, but it would put pressure on terrans. Not only that, but goons with range outranged bunkers. Using various amounts of goon pressure into expands, or forcing Terrans to cancel greedy expands was one of the nicer things about the goon. Stalkers come with the range upgrade already present. | ||
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intotheheart
Canada33091 Posts
Infested Terran was used by ZerO against Protoss Scouts had 'DADADADADADADA" when free knocked out Fantasy from an OSL. Those units have memories, but Dragoons don't in my experience. I can't remember more than one dragoon game and only because Light fucked up the game anyway. | ||
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TheFish7
United States2824 Posts
If you guys want to try a mod for HotS where you can replace the stalker and the colossus for the Dragoon and the Reaver, I have already created such a mod. In my mod I found that the goon added an interesting dynamic especially against roach/hydra and mech compositions, but performed about the same as stalkers against bio. (same stats as BW but I also added bonus vs armored to the goon) Personally I'd rather sign a petition to bring the reaver back as a replacement for the disruptor instead. | ||
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