EPTLotV: Dragoon - a good idea for Protoss? - Page 3
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ZAiNs
United Kingdom6525 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On May 23 2015 20:58 ZAiNs wrote: Is anyone actually stupid enough to believe there is even a chance that they will put the Dragoon into LotV? What we are discussing is that Dragoons have no place, simply because Stalkers are 90% the same than them but with much more micro, mobility and utility, at the cost of being less A-move than Dragoons since they are a bit weaker. I think the only pointless discussion here is thinking that a Dragoon at 150/75 would have any real use in SC2. | ||
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[F_]aths
Germany3947 Posts
When WOL was released, I could not imagine protoss without dragoons. The unit was split into the vs-ground-only immortal and "dark dragoon", the stalker. How protoss has found its own SC2 balance, rendering the dragoon superfluous. Instead of bringing the old units back, we rather should play some SC2BW if we want to have the old glory. Or SCBW. It still runs on modern computers, if configured properly even without false colors. | ||
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Pontius Pirate
United States1557 Posts
On May 23 2015 21:11 JCoto wrote: What we are discussing is that Dragoons have no place, simply because Stalkers are 90% the same than them but with much more micro, mobility and utility, at the cost of being less A-move than Dragoons since they are a bit weaker. I think the only pointless discussion here is thinking that a Dragoon at 150/75 would have any real use in SC2. I mostly agree with you, and I don't think it's a good idea to bring the Dragoon back in the game. However, there are some alterations and adaptations you could do in order to get such a thing to fit. For example, what if it was redesigned as a purely AA unit? You could make it do 40 flat damage, with a cooldown somewhat higher than that of a Stalker. Maybe bump up their speed to 3.375 or 3.5 as well. You'd make them specifically to deal with air comps, including major Mutalisk pressure. Buuuut... It would be way better to just make the Immortal that price that you listed and greatly lower its vs armor bonus damage to compensate. Then it would be even beefier on a HP per cost basis, and not much weaker attack-wise. And that still wouldn't fix the issue with weak Gateway units, so it would have to be as part of a larger set of changes to the game. | ||
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andrewlt
United States7702 Posts
Seriously, though, I think there might be something to be said about having a protoss unit that doesn't have reduced stats in exchange for a gimmick. Blizzard pretty much divided the dragoon into 3 units (stalker, immortal, adept), each with their own gimmick. | ||
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TelecoM
United States10700 Posts
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summerloud
Austria1201 Posts
whats ruining the game is that every race has at least one dragoon now | ||
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Juice!
Belgium295 Posts
but i doubt it will see any light in the multiplayer | ||
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Piousflea84
17 Posts
On May 23 2015 20:44 okto wrote: Give the stalker an optional gold skin. Problem fixed. The units are essentially the same. +1. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
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Dota_Lust
14 Posts
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 01 2015 03:54 Dota_Lust wrote: Aren't Immortals the lore replacement for Dragoons now? Immortals do a lot more damage and have better shields, but are build on the same 4 legged chassis. Lore-wise, they are, but game-play wise, Immortals are "rare" units meant to be built in relatively low numbers, and concieved to be the ultimate hardcounter to big armored units because of their traits (hardenedshields, insane DPS vs armor) and moving slow. The problem is that the basic army of Protoss has lost some firepower compared to BW, since the damage system changed a bit and Stalkers are good but not as good as dragoons were vs medium units, while the Zerg basic army (Ling, Bane, Roach, Hydra) and the Terran most basic army (MarineMarauder) is stronger than they were in BW. Terran mech is also weaker, specially vs Protoss, because of the loss of Vulture/Spider mine tactics. This situation leaves Protoss with the lack of a strong "core" unit, relatively masseable, and dependant on FF. A cheaper, readjusted Immortal could take the role of empowered dragoon and be a very interesting core unit. | ||
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dr3am_b3ing
Canada188 Posts
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Jerom
Netherlands588 Posts
Yes some units were better, but the dragoon just sounds like a more boring stalker to me. There's absolutely no need to bring it back. | ||
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JCoto
Spain574 Posts
On June 13 2015 04:03 dr3am_b3ing wrote: I would rather have Stalkers with Blink than Dragoons with range. Blink is such a useful all-purpose ability (defend against muta agression/ suprise attacks into the main/ etc.) Obviously the person that started the thread didn't consider many of the implications of the SC2 changes on the damage system and attributes of units, and didn't do math behind it. Dragoons in SC2 as they wre in BW would be quite pointless since we don't have medium units in SC2. Also Blink allows for very versatile and mobile tactics.... We have Immortals as powerhouses vs armored, problem is that their design is a bit off. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 13 2015 05:27 Jerom wrote: I honestly feel like these suggested are purely driven by people wanting starcraft to be more like broodwar. Yes some units were better, but the dragoon just sounds like a more boring stalker to me. There's absolutely no need to bring it back. I prefer the Stalker over the Dragoon in all aspects but one--the Stalker looks skinny which I cannot agree with. Siege Tanks and Dragoons looked cool because they were massive tanks and were twice the size of a Hydra (twice the supply as well) This created the illusion that Protoss and Terran had these MASSIVE HULKS on the battlefield that dwarfed all of terran bio, zealots, lings, and hydralisks. And then SC2 came out with Dragoons the size of Hydralisks and the aura has just never been the same. | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
On May 23 2015 04:42 okto wrote: I miss the old pure gold Protoss army, but other than that I don't see what the issue is with the Bluegoon. The reason why Protoss is weak early game is because Terran has marauders w/ conc shells and Zerg has roaches. This. If Blizzard wanted to do something about protoss then what they should try to do is; remove the marauder entirely or repurpose it, remove or rework the Roach, put warpgate higher up in the tech tree (starbow has it at the archives), remove combat shields and add in medics while stripping the heal from speedvacs. Check out starbow if you want to know more. | ||
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alpenrahm
Germany629 Posts
On June 13 2015 05:27 Jerom wrote: I honestly feel like these suggested are purely driven by people wanting starcraft to be more like broodwar. Yes some units were better, but the dragoon just sounds like a more boring stalker to me. There's absolutely no need to bring it back. What we want is a RTS game that has more emphasis on positional play rather then timing pushes. | ||
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TMagpie
265 Posts
On June 13 2015 06:10 alpenrahm wrote: What we want is a RTS game that has more emphasis on positional play rather then timing pushes. How does this fit in with the topic? | ||
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B-royal
Belgium1330 Posts
Protoss in brood war was a fearsome thing. Playing versus brood war's Protoss made you scared. Playing versus Sc2's protoss makes you frustrated because they're a gimmick race. | ||
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