EPTAs a Blitz main I support this change.
[Patch 5.7] More Executes General Discussion - Page 5
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
As a Blitz main I support this change. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
On April 08 2015 21:44 mr_tolkien wrote: I saw that trend, but why would you play it top instead of jungle ? She actually clears waves too fast to really get ahead in laning phase (except if you invade, but the opposing team will see it pretty easily), and has godlike map mobility early. I mean you can solo drake pretty easily at lvl5 and you wreck anybody 1v1 with the saber. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
You do it because this way you've got a Skirmisher Cinderhulk diver with a lane of farm and exp (and additional farm from the jungle, although if your jungler doesn't camp bot he won't like it, esp. blue side where you deprive him from the gromp buff), on top of your other tank from the jungle. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On April 08 2015 21:52 Alaric wrote: So many champs can solo drake at level 5 though (they're less popular because they aren't tanks, although I'm pretty sure Sej can do it, but it's Sej, not sure about Zac, and Nautilus is obviously a non-factor). You do it because this way you've got a Skirmisher Cinderhulk diver with a lane of farm and exp (and additional farm from the jungle, although if your jungler doesn't camp bot he won't like it, esp. blue side where you deprive him from the gromp buff), on top of your other tank from the jungle. Well actually I prefer to play her jungle because I get way more farm than as a laner... I usually reach lvl16 when laners are still 14 or less. You clear the jungle incredibly fast with high mobility, can invade like a mad man, and you usually get a few lanes worth of farm when your laners back, since you can just run to the lane, clear it in 10s, and rush back to the jungle. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
TLDR? Although Shyvana top is obvious because she is a great splitpusher with duelist smite, hard to do effectively from the jungle. Also a lot safer than Hecarim who can get totally zoned off CS. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Logic is: If you can afford to be a little weaker early, skirmishers is as good or better than flash/ignite, while also providing smite team utility and giving you access to the most cost efficient items in the game. But since you can smite a camp lvl1 and have an early level advantage, its not actually weaker early in the first place. | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On April 08 2015 22:35 cLutZ wrote: TLDR? Although Shyvana top is obvious because she is a great splitpusher with duelist smite, hard to do effectively from the jungle. Also a lot safer than Hecarim who can get totally zoned off CS. The tldr is: Cinderhulk is broken, skirmisher is in general better than ignite and flash is overrated. Superior dragon/baron control and invades. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On April 08 2015 23:14 Jek wrote: The tldr is: Cinderhulk is broken, skirmisher is in general better than ignite and flash is overrated. Superior dragon/baron control and invades. I don't think Flash is actually overrated though. You can just go smite-flash, start with the camp on your side of top lane (golems or gromp) and go to lane almost full life and lvl2. Then you have an offensive summoner that scales very well into the late game :D | ||
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Jek
Denmark2771 Posts
On April 08 2015 23:16 mr_tolkien wrote: I don't think Flash is actually overrated though. You can just go smite-flash, start with the camp on your side of top lane (golems or gromp) and go to lane almost full life and lvl2. Then you have an offensive summoner that scales very well into the late game :D I'd be a bit wary about being top without TP, I think the idea about flashless is you dont need it on champions that can start a fight without it like Maokai, Hecarim or Shy and if you have the superior early game items (Skirmisher/Cinderhulk) you can just 1v2 a gank. Skirmishers scale better than Ignite into the lategame IMO since you can just use it on their biggest damage threat and go ham on him/her.  | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
I mean people did it for 5 years I don't see what's wrong with it, especially in soloQ. TP shines in lane swaps and long games where you can split push. But if you aim to actually carry from the top lane and have a proper 1v1, taking an offensive summoner can yield better results. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
On April 08 2015 23:36 Zdrastochye wrote: (they could two man gank you) That's called a double kill opportunity ! TP was considered shit for years for a reason, and they had to buff it multiple times for it to actually start seeing play. Even though it's pretty good now, it's not that much better than it is an auto-take in soloQ. If your opponent has TP and you have an offensive summoner spell, no he can't "push hard" because you kick his ass 1v1. He can try and clear from a distance like a lil bitch and hope he's far enough from you when he TPs to not get it interrupted and die. And god forbid his TP is ever down, because Ignite/Exhaust comes back sooner and that means you WILL win 1v1 but he still can't go in the lane and push if you move for an objective since his TP is down. So if he comes to teamfight, you win with your summoner, if he doesn't come, you get the objective and come back to farm, in a situation where you win the 1v1. | ||
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Gahlo
United States35130 Posts
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
I said he can push hard if you chose to group with your team. If you're split pushing with exhaust/ignite then he has choices. He can either group with his team and then TP top to defend a turret, or play defensively underneath turret and do his best to waveclear and in the scenario where he gets dove he just has to live while his team comes to his aid or tries to take a winning fight 4v4. I actually do like offensive summoners, there's just no arguing which is more versatile between them and TP. Unless you plan on carrying your entire team on your back with some Boxbox-esque Riven plays (who btw switched from ignite Riven to TP awhile back) you're likely better off taking TP. This changes however if you are playing an all-in top laner who will do nothing if he doesn't win his lane. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Also, while with both having Ignite you can all-in early if you're stronger, force a recall and get a gold and exp advantage off of shoving before you recall yourself, in a number of match-ups you can simply survive the all-in, recall, teleport back at full health, and thus be able to survive the lane and even farm till the point where you outscale (by the time Ignite comes back you're usually over level 6 even if used early). That was part of the reason it was popular on Nasus or Singed even prior to the buffs and the popularity of lane swaps in competitive play: just survive the all-in (say Pantheon at the time) or trade without leaving openings for an all-in to "burn" your opponent's health and/or mana, then walk away, recall, TP back to lane and tada, you got over that bump. Considering their power curves and how their weak match-ups worked out, failing an all-in basically meant losing the lane because they'd reach their "safe spot" for free. | ||
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mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
The guy with TP isn't gonna farm under the tower because the wave won't reach his tower. If it does, just stack the next wave on his side so it pushes toward you. And voilà. TP makes sense on some champs for sure (Nasus and Singed come to mind, as indeed their "best" build is to just run a rune page full of resists and start with a defensive item then win from lvl11+), but on high-damage mobile champs like Riven or Shyvana, TP doesn't sound that appealing in soloQ. I'd rather have smite+flash so I can just smash my opponent's head to the ground :D | ||
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cLutZ
United States19573 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
So of course if you run ignite you've got higher chances to impact your lane, but TP's better for these plays if you're behind, and it can also work if you're ahead! Obviously sometimes your opponent won't know how to make use of TP that way and get wrecked anyway, but in general the expected outcome is higher for TP (it's also more forgiving to react to bad positioning/foresight for a nashor or dragon play). | ||
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M2
Bulgaria4115 Posts
On April 08 2015 23:55 Alaric wrote: TP's cooldown is reduced by 60s if you TP on a tower. not true, I think its reduced with 20s though | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
lol | ||
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