EPT[Patch 4.2] Xerath/Skarner General Discussion - Page 91
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:30 killerdog wrote: I remember playing mid janna back then too, at that point if you got enough ap your w turned into a 100% slow, and people would just walk on the spot for it's duration. (Sadly I think they fixed that T.T) Your choice of midlane support seems a little better though :p Has anyone tried soraka mid properly? There are two soraka mid only players in NA challenger right now, so it can't be completely terrible. I remember something like she used to be a super safe lane bully, who scaled into relative uselessness but have the changes messed that up at all? That Janna slow bug sounds hilarious, sorry I missed it. Basically when they did the preseason changes I took a good hard look at the support champs and their scaling and noticed that Lulu seemed to come out on top with weak nerfs. Then they buffed her base numbers in December when Yasuo was released. It was fun. Soraka seems to me like she got the short end of the stick when it came to the changes though I didn't really try playing her. As always though Riot hates her and at this point they're looking at seriously reworking her kit. =\ | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On February 20 2014 23:53 Fusilero wrote: At this point I think lulu is more a mid laner than support, lulu mid is freaking terror man you can't catch her team once she gets enough items. Not saying that lulu can't be played support but I think she's too good of a mid laner to pass up. I was just reading about the new changes to spellthiefs edge (or whatever the blue support item is called) and they're considerably buffing it's poke/gp5 potential in the next patch, along with nerfing coin and dorans. Given how Lulu is already pretty dominant in bot lane (and one of the only current fotm supports which doesn't rely on dorans to sustain early on in lane) I think she might get even stronger in the supporting role. The only other poke support who might benefit as much as lulu i can think of is zyra, (and maybe annie, that aa range) but lulu is definitely going to enjoy it a lot. | ||
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phyvo
United States5635 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:42 cLutZ wrote: I'm not sure Lulu mid will last. She is obviously crazy with Olaf, Shyvana, etc, but someone said she is 2/3 of Ori's damage, I don't think its nearly that close. Numbers-wise she has a little more than 1/2 the base burst damage (that is mashing everything once) and little less than 1/2 the burst scaling at level 18, though she has obvious utility gains from ulti and W. I think the major thing is tha Qing people twice from one pix just lets you bully so hard it doesn't matter and then hopefully you have other damage threats on your team to pick up the slack. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
Also Lulus bullying is overrated Orianna does it better and safer its just that the top lane/jungle can destroy people when it takes for ever to kill them. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Come again? The champ who's got 2 heals (one cross-map), a huge-ass armour buff (that you took great care to nerf repeatedly) and the ability to grant mana to allies? | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:56 Alaric wrote: I laughed at the part where Morello defined supports as champions using their kits to help their allies, and sating that Soraka fundamentally breaks that. Come again? The champ who's got 2 heals (one cross-map), a huge-ass armour buff (that you took great care to nerf repeatedly) and the ability to grant mana to allies? But she has a DAMAGE ability. No support champions DO damage. C'mon Alaric, talk sense pls | ||
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Fusilero
United Kingdom50293 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:56 Alaric wrote: I laughed at the part where Morello defined supports as champions using their kits to help their allies, and sating that Soraka fundamentally breaks that. Come again? The champ who's got 2 heals (one cross-map), a huge-ass armour buff (that you took great care to nerf repeatedly) and the ability to grant mana to allies? Morello defines supports as "soraka can go fuck herself" | ||
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dae
Canada1600 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:55 phyvo wrote: Numbers-wise she has a little more than 1/2 the base burst damage (that is mashing everything once) and little less than 1/2 the burst scaling at level 18, though she has obvious utility gains from ulti and W. I think the major thing is tha Qing people twice from one pix just lets you bully so hard it doesn't matter and then hopefully you have other damage threats on your team to pick up the slack. You cant hit the same target twice with the same Q. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 20 2014 18:24 Scip wrote: Are you sure about darius support in double bruiser lanes? Usually we play a combination something like J4/Leona/Lee Sin/Wu Kong/Pantheon, haven't tried Darius yet. Although it sounds good in theory, might try it out. Since the topic of dual bruiser botlane is way cooler than the past 8 pages. I find support darius to be the best choice in dual bruiser botlane, common combination I use with it is lee sin/darius, j4/darius, panth/darius. The reason I really like darius is he does immense amounts of damage without having to build damage item, so he live off of just trinket gold, and the pull is a great follow up cc. I know jatt duo queues and does Darius+maokai botlane. But I tried it out and it felt terrible as the maokai player, cuz no mana, ever. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
What. Either that was particularly badly worded and with all the specific terms Riot tries to establish he'd really need to brush up on that, or that was in plain bad faith. ^ another big thing with Darius is that you don't go to the enemy duo, you make it come to you. Considering you're likely to be in a melee vs ranged match-up, it makes a big difference wrt your wiggle room compared to tower range. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:56 Alaric wrote: I laughed at the part where Morello defined supports as champions using their kits to help their allies, and sating that Soraka fundamentally breaks that. Come again? The champ who's got 2 heals (one cross-map), a huge-ass armour buff (that you took great care to nerf repeatedly) and the ability to grant mana to allies? Morello really has a whacked out view of what makes the game difficult to balance. He dislikes Irelia, but never has understood that the only thing hard to balance in her kit is tenacity. He dislikes Soraka, but has never fully explained why he thinks healing is so fundamentally bad (I think the answer is turret and minion damage, but he never really can get to that point himself). And Lulu mid will clearly be slaughtered if it continues, because that is tradition. Meanwhile, the toplane synergy is what makes her strong, so those will stay untouched. | ||
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Eppa!
Sweden4641 Posts
Irelias big problem is that she is neither right now or lategame. Her power curve is straight and she is not good at anything. Her ultimate is mostly to blame as its just damage and sustain rather than something that does something for her. She lacks tank or cc/burst and there is no place for a hero like that. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
On February 21 2014 01:06 dae wrote: You cant hit the same target twice with the same Q. Well, you can. It just doesn't do anything :p I think the reason they don't like soraka is she is just so boring to play for most people. Her kit is very much geared towards just sitting behind your adc and casting a spell every 20 seconds, and unless you're good enough to have the positional sense to be able to harass with q without getting engaged on and dying, it's really really boring to play. She just feels like a non entity, either your team is doing well and you win, or your team is losing and you lose, and there isn't any chance to make really clutch plays to heavily influence the game. Even in the games she can have an effect (when the enemy has an assassin or something who you can prevent from engaging) she does it in such a boring way. A point and click silence which basically stops anyone from being able to engage. | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
On February 21 2014 00:42 cLutZ wrote: I'm not sure Lulu mid will last. She is obviously crazy with Olaf, Shyvana, etc, but someone said she is 2/3 of Ori's damage, I don't think its nearly that close. Easier to play, more utility, longer range of engage, can always hit backline fairly easily, safe laning, I don't see her really dying out unless nerf, or someone finds a lane/matchup counter. On February 21 2014 01:12 Eppa! wrote: Fizz+Lee is super strong vs many adc+support lanes. Not enough cc in lane. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
'cause 20s base cd heals are totes sustain healing and not burst. I mean, the reasoning could be sound, but there's so much shit they always leave to the side; maybe if they addressed it they'd have sensible points that'd make us agree, but they never even bother acknowledging the topics (like with their hugeass support feedback thread at the end of s3: spout shit about how support is boring because not enough gold and you have no impact? Full-blown responses. Mention the scales of cost vs slot-efficiency for items, kits base values as opposed to scaling, and budget? It's like you never posted at all.). Tbh it annoys me way more than, say, server stability, because saying "we're working on it" every 10 minutes won't make the servers suddenly feel better, however when they come to players to hear their opinions you'd expect them to actually listen over hand pick the shit that goes in their direction. ^ killerdog: well Soraka can instantly silence the LB going in. Lulu can try to W her but in the midgame she'll output enough damage during the projectle's flying time that her target it still likely to die. v why the heck would you spam AP on Soraka anyway? She gets way more out of CDR, rylai and some survivability. | ||
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Sarah Bryant
United Kingdom160 Posts
Even full ap build with rabbadon and meiai doesn't really help the team as 1 leona ulti can =/. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On February 21 2014 01:09 wei2coolman wrote: Since the topic of dual bruiser botlane is way cooler than the past 8 pages. I find support darius to be the best choice in dual bruiser botlane, common combination I use with it is lee sin/darius, j4/darius, panth/darius. The reason I really like darius is he does immense amounts of damage without having to build damage item, so he live off of just trinket gold, and the pull is a great follow up cc. I know jatt duo queues and does Darius+maokai botlane. But I tried it out and it felt terrible as the maokai player, cuz no mana, ever. Darius seems like he could be a legit counter to Leona. | ||
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killerdog
Denmark6522 Posts
If you've managed to get roa, rabas and void or something like that, surely you're dealing pretty good damage. On February 21 2014 01:21 Ghost-z wrote: Darius seems like he could be a legit counter to Leona. Is that only in lane? or does he also continue to work through the mid/late game (assuming you didn't just dumpster bot and snowball off it.) If the leona lane just stays at max range and farms, you don't really have any way to force the engage (short of way overextending, and being open to ganks due to no cc/escapes) and a midgame, underleveled leona with no items is probably better then a mdigame, underleveled darius with no items. edit: thinking about it, somehow getting a comp where both a soraka and a lulu get a lot of farm could be hilariously annoying to play against. You'd never be able to hard engage, never able to burst someone down, and they'd just sustain through any poke you put on them. Lulu soraka caitlyn a bruiser jungler and some support, just siege down towers and laugh whenever they try to engage on you, and if you ever manage to engage they'll just all turn super tanky and kite you around in circles with slows, wimsy and silences (while spamming starcall on your face.) | ||
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. Talking about supports do you think that RIOT needs to pay more attention to classic sup?
