EPT[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 335
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Realistically though, I don't think Tristana has a good early game. She gets beat hard by almost everybody. If you have a real aggressive all in support and build an early lead you can snowball, but on average that just doesn't happen and you end up playing defensive vs. superior poke. That's my experience at least. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 25 2013 22:34 Ketara wrote: Please, everybody knows he was talking about AD Tristana mid and how amazing it is against Katarina and Khazix. Realistically though, I don't think Tristana has a good early game. She gets beat hard by almost everybody. If you have a real aggressive all in support and build an early lead you can snowball, but on average that just doesn't happen and you end up playing defensive vs. superior poke. That's my experience at least. Dunno I never really have issues in lane as trist.Only sometimes vs cait. | ||
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Ketara
United States15065 Posts
Right clicking is hard. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
If she gets the kill and a level advantage she can pretty mch keep doing that. Even if she doesn't get the kill, as long as she isn't too behind she can try the same thing at level 6. | ||
onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 25 2013 20:58 Alaric wrote: No, ideally you'd want to be able to buy both (most certainly would need lowering the cost of support-oriented items since regardless of you income it's hard to have "too much vision/too many wards"). Currently, if you have more vision you win and your income is likely too low for most items anyway (even getting more than Sightstone and one of Shurelya/Locket/etc. is rare unless game's a killfest) so people pool all their resources towards vision. There's still the choice though, but "social pressure" forces vision. Riot "solves" this by removing the choice: you can't have more vision. Which means that you can't get asked to provide more vision (which was the goal; ideally people would be educated but we all know how likely it is). But you can't decide on your own either. Sure, you've still got that gold, so you're going to spend it, and since you can't buy vision you'll buy items. Because you don't really have a choice anymore. So we're back to the "either they wanted to reduce the amount of vision you can give anyway and they failed at communicating it (plus if the team coordinates you can still have a ton of vision so it doesn't even work), either they believe cancer can be cured by painkillers since you don't suffer anymore" eg. bad design. I'm curious about the bushes tweaks too, since now being limited in pinks and not having oracles anymore (currently being tested) you really don't want to get screwed by these 2 pixels and the banana bushes. Don't pretend Supports have much of an option now. It's either buy wards or buy more wards. Hopefully the choices and variety will come with the new Support items/builds. | ||
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Osmoses
Sweden5302 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On October 25 2013 22:13 nafta wrote: Don't play sivir unless you are masochist.Lucian after the q change is actually pretty nice.I'd suggest tristana cause she is really fun.Having engage is always good though since you can't rely on your teammates to do it. Gonna try her now, thanks for the tip  | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 25 2013 16:28 lilwisper wrote: I think Chalice to Grail is very smart. You get a lot of things Xerath needs. You'll have your AP, CDR, MR and Mgen all in one item. Also since AP gives you a bit of armor you have that covered too. Yeah, initially I was wary because he feels like the kind of champion who wants DC/VS type builds for nuking everything, but his poke and clear in lane with Chalice/Grail is really, really good. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On October 25 2013 20:46 Zergneedsfood wrote: wtf.......limitations on how many wards you can put on the map at one time? WHAT?! ....That sounds fucking awful Worst part of that post: NO. YOU'RE THE BITCH OF THE TEAM. SUPPORTS DON'T BUY ITEMS. THEY BUY WARRDDSS. Shit dude, they're taking out the spirit of why Support is fun play. Support is fun because I can beat people on other teams who buy shit Aegis or shit Shurelias or shit gp5s and just buy wards, wards, pinks, oracles, wards, wards, wards and give team access to EVERYTHING because only god knows how many times people in Silver get caught. Almost no one thinks buying only wards is fun though. And new theory: If they want their team builder thing to actually work, they need more people to want to queue up as support or else queue times will be eternity. | ||
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Zdrastochye
Ivory Coast6262 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:12 thenexusp wrote: Almost no one thinks buying only wards is fun though. And new theory: If they want their team builder thing to actually work, they need more people to want to queue up as support or else queue times will be eternity. Speak for yourself, I love buying only wards. Do you even main support? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BXY3gzvCUAEUZhc.jpg:large) | ||
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Gahlo
United States35174 Posts
I wouldn't mind some baylife... | ||
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Zess
Adun Toridas!9144 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:07 onlywonderboy wrote: Don't pretend Supports have much of an option now. It's either buy wards or buy more wards. Hopefully the choices and variety will come with the new Support items/builds. They have an option. Its just the best choice is to buy wards because vision is broken, but wards suck (random fog interactions around cliffs, no elevation in league, shitty map layout), but even though vision is incredibly expensive given the broken mechanics of it, the other items suck even more. I'm waiting on the support item changes, but I'm not really hopeful they're going to do something besides put AP on items targeted at supports with trash ratios (or buff the ratios and nerf base stats, making it more trash). I feel the whole change is a bit like ordering a pharyngectomy for a patient with a sore throat because of some unknown, but treatable, microbial infection. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
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onlywonderboy
United States23745 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:28 xes wrote: They have an option. Its just the best choice is to buy wards because vision is broken, but wards suck (random fog interactions around cliffs, no elevation in league, shitty map layout), but even though vision is incredibly expensive given the broken mechanics of it, the other items suck even more. I'm waiting on the support item changes, but I'm not really hopeful they're going to do something besides put AP on items targeted at supports with trash ratios (or buff the ratios and nerf base stats, making it more trash). I feel the whole change is a bit like ordering a pharyngectomy for a patient with a sore throat because of some unknown, but treatable, microbial infection. Well that's sort of what I meant. You technically have options now, but vision just trumps items for supports at this point. I mean we'll see how far they go with giving Supports ratios to scale their utility. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:07 onlywonderboy wrote: Don't pretend Supports have much of an option now. It's either buy wards or buy more wards. Hopefully the choices and variety will come with the new Support items/builds. That's what I meant: currently you don't have the income (alternatively the pricing doesn't exist for your budget) to buy many items, so you're pretty limited to stuff like greeding out a Shurelya by delaying boots2 and your first oracle. You do, however, have the possibility. My problem is that with these changes you don't have choice anymore: "Oh, you bought a sightstone? Well now you've capped your vision as soon as you drop a pink, so might as well buy these items, right? Not like you can use your gold for anything else anyway." Then of course there's the whole "I agree that you won't be bitched at anymore by your team, which is good. But instead you're boned if they don't replace the bitching with buying, and they artificially create gold for you to buy rather than make the team manage available farm/objectives" and people get mad because they only see the negativity. Maybe I've got an inconscious QQ quota to fill. I wonder if petered resents me for doing it here rather than in the shikyo thread. Edit: oh, yeah, and that whole "let's make supports scale too". Because fuck diverse power curves, right, everyone scales with items and all's well in the world. When Riot says "we designed supports with low scaling because they were supposed to get no farm", I read it as "we never considered the implications of base values vs ratios' interaction and now that we can afford to streamline everyone we don't need it anymore." Which makes me mad. In a calm and serene way, but still mad. It could be summed up by genuinely asking them "Is Pantheon's atypical power curve this way because of intended design, or because you didn't dare/bother reworking him after he incidentally turned out this way?" | ||
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