EPT[Patch 3.12] (j/k) Jinx General Discussion - Page 336
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
The CV on an item has been my most wanted aspect to help prevent teams from monopolizing the vision game when they get a lead. Helps prevent some snowballing/throwing. | ||
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TheLink
Australia2725 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:28 nafta wrote: Does anyone else get dc-d from client every like 2 minutes?With 5 minute ques it's hard to even go in game.....My internet isn't the problem since I am watching streams/radio and I checked if I could load sites. I had this problem a few patches ago. The answer was deleting something from your Riot Games folder but I can't remember what. Try googling a bit. | ||
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Pharcyd3
United States90 Posts
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
but draven in general requires an AD carry who can actually play him so i guess thats situational. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:53 Pharcyd3 wrote: What's a good response to a Caitlyn pick? Everytime I see her I'm confused on what to pick/counter with. Is she just the queen of laning and there are no "counter picks" per say? Generally you want to pick someone who can be safe against her or aggressively trade and get past her range advantage, though that generally requires a hard aggro support and a less-than-cautious Cait. Overall I find Ashe to be pretty good, worst comes to worst you can farm/push almost as well with a similar range and volley, and then as long as you're not dying to her repeatedly your damage will be roughly similar after laning and you'll have higher utility. As a Cait player I have had troubles with good Twitches, but I've only done it a couple times so that could just be me not knowing the matchup. | ||
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Kyrie
1594 Posts
to give a very extreme example to illustrate as clearly as possible, while it's been well established that some skill is transferable between dota2 and lol, suddenly throwing alliance into champions winter would not go well. season 4 changes obviously aren't this severe, but they do raise the question of how much they 'reset' the competitive scene by making people relearn the game to an extent | ||
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Pharcyd3
United States90 Posts
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
Vision's only reduced if you get the same teammates that refuse to help currently (or are at a level where vision is unheard of), in organised play (or if above some threshold level people start reliably buying wards) it'll be the same as right now, which combined with Xypherous not stating vision reduction amongst their goals leads me to believe that it is not intended. Pretty much like low vision in low level games is a byproduct of said level, not a design feature. (If Riot's goal was to reduce vision (and their plans worked accordingly), then I wouldn't say anything about limiting wards and how they removed a single player's ability to sink more resources toward more vision, because it'd be their goal, one I can agree with. But because it seems unintended, and makes vision solely dependant on whether your teammates are willing to spend on it or not, I think it's bad/awkward design that removes choice from the individual player and thus lessens the game's depth.) | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:00 Clinic wrote: i'm curious as to how people feel about the changes in relation to the competitive scene. it seems to me that such radical changes make it much more difficult to maintain consistent performance due to the nature of the game shifting. whether this is good or bad is up for debate, but i feel that such 'artificial' freshness keeps things interesting for many viewers and more casual players at the expense of those who (try to) play the game for a living to give a very extreme example to illustrate as clearly as possible, while it's been well established that some skill is transferable between dota2 and lol, suddenly throwing alliance into champions winter would not go well. season 4 changes obviously aren't this severe, but they do raise the question of how much they 'reset' the competitive scene by making people relearn the game to an extent Well, I think they have to keep mixing it up to an extent. Just adding champions wouldn't keep the game from getting stale, especially when you hear the same complaints over and over again. I think big shifts like this are fine when it comes to season changes, because it kind of signals the start of a new regime. It won't shift top teams to shit and new teams to even with C9, because good players are always good and experience in a tournament is almost as or even more important than knowing how to play. | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:57 Requizen wrote: Generally you want to pick someone who can be safe against her or aggressively trade and get past her range advantage, though that generally requires a hard aggro support and a less-than-cautious Cait. Overall I find Ashe to be pretty good, worst comes to worst you can farm/push almost as well with a similar range and volley, and then as long as you're not dying to her repeatedly your damage will be roughly similar after laning and you'll have higher utility. As a Cait player I have had troubles with good Twitches, but I've only done it a couple times so that could just be me not knowing the matchup. I've also had good success playing as Twitch against Cait. That venom passive + expunge makes trading autos favorable to Twitch almost everytime. | ||
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nafta
Bulgaria18893 Posts
On October 25 2013 23:53 Pharcyd3 wrote: What's a good response to a Caitlyn pick? Everytime I see her I'm confused on what to pick/counter with. Is she just the queen of laning and there are no "counter picks" per say? If she is good she should win lane always unless your support is a lot stronger.Basically it depends mostly on cait rather than your own play.Generally best way to beat a caitlyn is to outpush her then just buy a vamp +another doran and outsustain or all in with something else. | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:05 Ghost-z wrote: I've also had good success playing as Twitch against Cait. That venom passive + expunge makes trading autos favorable to Twitch almost everytime. Yeah. The more I think about it I think it's a good matchup as long as your support is on the ball. As long as you have vision control in lane, you can use Stealth to somewhat negate her range advantage and then either force her back in fear or get in and trade way harder than she can. To counter Twitch I think you need someone like Graves who can burst his shit as soon as he de-stealths to get rid of the "element of surprise" advantage. | ||
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Tula
Austria1544 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:03 Alaric wrote: If the support gets ruby sightstone and a pink, and all other team member one ward, +1 pink for the jungler, you've got 7 wards and 2 pinks available at any given time (not including trinkets, we lack details). That's pretty much what you can currently expect from a team leveraging vision properly. Vision's only reduced if you get the same teammates that refuse to help currently (or are at a level where vision is unheard of), in organised play (or if above some threshold level people start reliably buying wards) it'll be the same as right now, which combined with Xypherous not stating vision reduction amongst their goals leads me to believe that it is not intended. Pretty much like low vision in low level games is a byproduct of said level, not a design feature. (If Riot's goal was to reduce vision (and their plans worked accordingly), then I wouldn't say anything about limiting wards and how they removed a single player's ability to sink more resources toward more vision, because it'd be their goal, one I can agree with. But because it seems unintended, and makes vision solely dependant on whether your teammates are willing to spend on it or not, I think it's bad/awkward design that removes choice from the individual player and thus lessens the game's depth.) And I fundamentally disagree. One of the key aspects of a game like this MUST be teamwork. We are playing a teamgame at it's core. Half of the reason why soloQ is so toxic is because that aspect is not enforced in some way. Not enough wards? Blame the support. Loosing your lane? Blame the jungler. Obviously Riot cannot "fix" everything for us, and frankly blamers and flamers will always find something to criticize but removing the "burden" of warding from the support (or at least forcing a team to spread that burden) is one viable option we should explore. If we go right down to the basics being a ward biatch in soloQ is not rewarding, because 99% of the people you play with will not appreciate how much effort it is to keep it up. They think the awesome catch in the jungle happened not because we had 3 deep wards and saw someone but because they landed the cool skillshot and blew him up. In my opinion THAT is the reason why people below diamond try to avoid playing support at all costs. Even if they know what they should be doing, they also know that their efforts will not be rewarded anyway. Maybe with this change Riot can finally convince the average SoloQ game that yes vision is important, and no vision is not the sole responsibility of the Support (who is usually 3 levels behind to boot and cannot stroll into the river to ward without cover anyway). | ||
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UniversalSnip
9871 Posts
If the support gets ruby sightstone and a pink, Don't think ruby will be around anymore. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:00 Clinic wrote: i'm curious as to how people feel about the changes in relation to the competitive scene. it seems to me that such radical changes make it much more difficult to maintain consistent performance due to the nature of the game shifting. whether this is good or bad is up for debate, but i feel that such 'artificial' freshness keeps things interesting for many viewers and more casual players at the expense of those who (try to) play the game for a living to give a very extreme example to illustrate as clearly as possible, while it's been well established that some skill is transferable between dota2 and lol, suddenly throwing alliance into champions winter would not go well. season 4 changes obviously aren't this severe, but they do raise the question of how much they 'reset' the competitive scene by making people relearn the game to an extent Between seasons is a fine time to make sweeping changes. Viewers and casual players are even more important than the pros, since without those then the pros don't have a livelihood anyway. Pros have plenty of time to adapt to the new stuff before the next LCS season. Besides, some of the changes address stuff that pros specifically have been complaining about (too much vision), and are arguably geared more towards pros than casual players -- don't think anyone in bronze is complaining about vision being too easy to get. On October 26 2013 00:10 UniversalSnip wrote: Don't think ruby will be around anymore. Ruby was still there in one of the screenshots posted by a pro tester, and the reddit post specifically says that sightstone wards, wriggle wards, trinket wards, and normal wards all count towards the same limit. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:00 Clinic wrote: i'm curious as to how people feel about the changes in relation to the competitive scene. it seems to me that such radical changes make it much more difficult to maintain consistent performance due to the nature of the game shifting. whether this is good or bad is up for debate, but i feel that such 'artificial' freshness keeps things interesting for many viewers and more casual players at the expense of those who (try to) play the game for a living Imagine a new champion being released, everyone thinks he's trash, and noone even gives him a chance. Then a team's analyst figures he might do well drafted in a certain composition, with a game plan revolving around abusing this powerful niche he has. Comes next tournament, this team crushes their opponents until the champion's banned, effectively reducing their opponents to 2 bans if the team is still able to play the same strategies/champions than before the release. A bunch of people didn't think much of Locket when it was reworked. However, once some pros/teams started using its potential and did well, it was promptly adopted by the others to keep up. Seasonal changes are a bigger example of this: they reward the players who are not only able to execute strategies or mechanically perform plays well, but also to understand the game, adapt to its changes and create new strategies. It's more about managing the scope and timing in such a way that: 1- you don't destroy the game in the process 2- you give pros enough time to start figuring out the version and develop new strategies and stuff | ||
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:10 UniversalSnip wrote: Don't think ruby will be around anymore. The icon in the testing screenshots show Ruby Sightstone, though that might just be the icon they chose between the two. Maybe (and I hope) they'll make it so Sightstone has different upgrades, like Ruby is health, Sapphire is CDR, Emerald is idk resists or something. | ||
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Xenocide_Knight
Korea (South)2625 Posts
On October 26 2013 00:13 Requizen wrote: The icon in the testing screenshots show Ruby Sightstone, though that might just be the icon they chose between the two. Maybe (and I hope) they'll make it so Sightstone has different upgrades, like Ruby is health, Sapphire is CDR, Emerald is idk resists or something. On hit poison damage! Diseased banana attack pls | ||
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Ghost-z
United States1291 Posts
Basically your trinket choices were: 1) a short term ward (think wriggles) 2) a short term oracle (think hextech sweeper) 3) a medium range CV edit to include post + Show Spoiler + Trinkets Trinkets are a completely new item type coming for Season 4. Here's how they work: A new Trinket Slot has been added to your inventory The Trinket Slot can only hold trinkets Trinkets are free and can be swapped out at the shop at any time Trinkets upgrade at Level 9, gaining either increased power or a lower cooldown Trinkets are free and have their own dedicated slot, so all team members can contribute to vision control without sacrificing other areas of development. The Three Trinkets Sweeper: Reveals and disables nearby invisible units (including Wards) for a short time The Sweeper Trinket is useful for denying enemy vision by revealing their nearby wards Totem: Places a Stealth Ward that lasts for 1 or 2 minutes depending on level The Totem Trinket acts like the current Wriggle's Lantern active. Stealth Wards grant full vision of a location for a brief time Lens: Reveals a nearby area of the map for a brief time The Lens Trinket operates like a mini Clairvoyance, revealing areas in the fog of war so teams can scout brush and other areas of the map from a position of relative safety We'd like to give players more unique options for interacting with vision. Each trinket replicates one of the essential basic vision mechanics and has an appropriate cooldown. We expect that teams will want a mix of vision options available to them in order to counter their opponents' potential vision choices. We're excited about the trinket system because it allows us to introduce a new way for everyone to participate in the vision game in ways that still offer specialization and customization. We're launching with a set of three trinkets because we wanted the simplest and clearest system possible, but we're open to expanding the system beyond the original three if it seems worthwhile. | ||
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