EPT[PSA] TL Dota Expansion - Page 4
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 31 2012 02:39 -Zoda- wrote: I personally think that this decision is kind of not rewarding for our LoL community, but well as said before, it'll keep it fairly small, avoiding all the kiddos. I am however convinced that no matter what, LoL will still be more popular (at least in korea/EU/US) because its mechanics and graphics are way easier to understand. DotA seems to me a way more elitist game, even more with its 1h long games. I am wondering something tho, people argue that DotA 2 is bigger because of the enormous playbase of DotA, but who said all these players will play DotA2 ? I mean, people still play BW and slowly convert to SC2, won't this happen with DotA 2 too ? What's key is there aren't many major differences between DotA 2 and DotA; it's basically a graphics/UI overhaul. Imagine if SC2 was exactly like BW except for minor changes like unit grouping, auto-split etc. A transition from BW -> SC2 in that case would be relatively easy. The primary reason we haven't seen a transition for DotA 2 yet is because it's still in beta and incomplete, though it's rapidly approaching completion. So porting the whole DotA community to DotA 2 isn't a pipe dream, but a natural progression. The same can't be said of transitioning from BW to SC2. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
I'm fine with this as long as the TL Dota community does not invade us with superiority complexes. We will remain civil to them, so I would expect nothing less from them. You can't find a "TL for LoL" because we are that already. We are a small community that can police itself and has the good fortune to churn out (mostly) good content. I'd like to think we make Neo's life easy for the most part. About the whole "TL B's lack of presence" thing: every single one of us, except for old man monte over here, is a full time student. I would love to be able to commit more time to take LoL more seriously. I do as much as I can for the community, but the simple fact is that I have a life outside my computer that I commit to as well, and I know I'm not unique in that. If I could practice as much as I wanted, I'm sure we could actually be a force to be reckoned with. | ||
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arnath
United States1317 Posts
On August 31 2012 02:39 -Zoda- wrote: DotA seems to me a way more elitist game, even more with its 1h long games. Just out of curiosity, where did the concept arise that DotA games are any longer (or shorter for that matter) than League games? I'm not going to do the math but from just having watched/played a lot of games of both, I feel like the average game length is pretty similar for both. EDIT: In other news, anything that makes Tobi easier to watch is a plus in my book. The guy is so much fun to watch commentate. | ||
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daemir
Finland8662 Posts
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Korlin
Canada142 Posts
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1ntrigue
Australia948 Posts
On August 31 2012 02:10 NeoIllusions wrote: China and SEA alone skews any numbers heavily in DotA's favor, it's not even fair, lol. ;< You're underestimating the prevalence of LoL in China. LoL is much more popular than DotA in all of the major Chinese cities nowadays in terms of active players. In terms of viewership, LoL is catching up pretty fast but it has stalled a bit because of the lack of top Chinese teams nowadays to challenge the current crop of top Korean teams. Really good thread by Neo btw. LoL currently doesn't deserve its own section since its progaming scene is still so undeveloped (showcased gloriously by Dignitas and Curse, tyvm, and the inconsistency of top teams). On the other hand, Deman has it right in that LoL is screaming for a haven for its more mature community which cannot be found in the official LoL forums or reddit. | ||
NeoIllusions
United States37500 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:12 1ntrigue wrote: You're underestimating the prevalence of LoL in China. LoL is much more popular than DotA in all of the major Chinese cities nowadays in terms of active players. In terms of viewership, LoL is catching up pretty fast but it has stalled a bit because of the lack of top Chinese teams nowadays to challenge the current crop of top Korean teams. Really good thread by Neo btw. LoL currently doesn't deserve its own section since its progaming scene is still so undeveloped (showcased gloriously by Dignitas and Curse, tyvm, and the inconsistency of top teams). On the other hand, Deman has it right in that LoL is screaming for a haven for its more mature community which cannot be found in the official LoL forums or reddit. Oh, I realize that LoL is crazy popular in China among the grass root players. Tencent. Need I say more? But when it comes to the professional scene, China is DotA's mecca, like SC is for Korea. Hopefully we'll get our own expanded section one day. But frankly, I'm in no rush. We need better infrastructure anyways. I rather not jump the gun. | ||
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Seuss
United States10536 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:03 jcarlsoniv wrote: Good for them. I enjoy Dota2 (watching and occasionally playing), and mostly due to tobiwan's excellent commentary. I wish the community the best. I'm fine with this as long as the TL Dota community does not invade us with superiority complexes. We will remain civil to them, so I would expect nothing less from them. You can't find a "TL for LoL" because we are that already. We are a small community that can police itself and has the good fortune to churn out (mostly) good content. I'd like to think we make Neo's life easy for the most part. About the whole "TL B's lack of presence" thing: every single one of us, except for old man monte over here, is a full time student. I would love to be able to commit more time to take LoL more seriously. I do as much as I can for the community, but the simple fact is that I have a life outside my computer that I commit to as well, and I know I'm not unique in that. If I could practice as much as I wanted, I'm sure we could actually be a force to be reckoned with. Ultimately the problem isn't that we have schedules and lives outside of LoL, but that our schedules don't all coincide. Over the course of an evening pretty much everyone shows up at some point, but almost never all at the same time, and when we are all there someone's gone AFK or doesn't have enough time to practice. Not that we could have been professional level simply by having more conveniently aligned schedules, but we'd at least be able to play more than once in a blue moon. | ||
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TheKefka
Croatia11752 Posts
On August 31 2012 02:24 Azarkon wrote: Chinese sponsors do, and that's relevant because China is one of the two markets that is seeing the biggest growth in eSports. Companies in China do advertise through their eSports teams and players, so the viewer counts from China matter a lot for monetization. Yea I realize Chinese sponsors get something out of it.But my point is that it's a silly argument to make that "we have China we have the biggest dick" because China is already pretty isolated from the west as a whole,forget about China e-sports.It's silly that people bring China into every DOta vs LoL argument when not only that China has no real effect on the growth of Dota2 in the west financially,but they can't even asses the numbers of viewers from China,let alone monetize it.China is still like an island in that sense for marketing,unless I'm way off. So other than the "HO HO HO WE GOT DEM VIEWES MANG,WE DON'T KNOW HOW MUCH OR WHAT TO DO WITH THEM BUT WE GOT EM!",there is nothing to it. | ||
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Cixah
United States11285 Posts
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MoonBear
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
This change has been in the pipes for a while, and wasn't an easy decision for the Admins to make, nor for the LoL Staff to accept. But at the end of the day, this is the decision that was made, and I understand why and I support it even if I am a bit jelly of the DotA Subforum. To me the League of Legends Subforum is the closest thing we have to the old Broodwar Forums. We're a small, tight-knit group who pretty much knows each other well. We're laid back, understanding of each other and have probably the highest quality discussion out of all the subforums. I mean, we ban people like, never. (Except random people who come in and start a fight for no reason.) This is something we want to preserve. At this stage, we're truthfully not ready for a full scale forum like the DotA community. We lack the staff, we lack infrastructure and we lack the means to preserve our community atmosphere if we did. But one day, we will rule this forum. Fear not. ;o -MoonBear | ||
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Snackysnacks
United States411 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:09 arnath wrote: Just out of curiosity, where did the concept arise that DotA games are any longer (or shorter for that matter) than League games? I'm not going to do the math but from just having watched/played a lot of games of both, I feel like the average game length is pretty similar for both. EDIT: In other news, anything that makes Tobi easier to watch is a plus in my book. The guy is so much fun to watch commentate. They aren't really that different in average game length anymore IMO. DotA games are still usually a tad longer, but I'd say 40 minutes is pretty normal for both games. A lot of this comes from an active effort by Icefrog to make games shorter and faster over the past few patches, as he recognizes this is one of the places where DotA has trailed behind its competitors. Historically it actually was true that DotA matches were significantly longer. Some mechanics contributing to this include: - You resurrect with 0 mana, so you have to wait for mana regen every time you leave base - No cooldown on buybacks, making it very hard to high-ground push against a team that saved intelligently for buybacks, as every push could be 5v6 or 5v7 - No staggered duration on TP channel time (e.g. right now each consecutive TP to the same building within 10 seconds is 3 seconds longer than the last), so you could have 3+ players instantly appear at the same tower to defend it--now the staggered TP channel time means that a team has to plan their defense beforehand All of these are no longer the case. TBH the games are much more similar now than fanboys on either side would like to admit. A lot of impressions one way or the other are driven by outdated info one way or the other (DotA players who tried LoL 1-2 years ago or LoL players who used to play DotA 3-4 years ago). | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now. | ||
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:52 Dandel Ion wrote: My question: Why not make a "MOBA" section, with DotA, LoL, and whatever else is popular atm (probably Smite soon, HoN used to be decently big) as subforums? I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now. Because bunching the LoL and DotA communities together is going to make everyone antsy. | ||
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Chiharu Harukaze
12112 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:52 Dandel Ion wrote: My question: Why not make a "MOBA" section, with DotA, LoL, and whatever else is popular atm (probably Smite soon, HoN used to be decently big) as subforums? I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now. It becomes messy when you mix the two games together. The same way BW and SC2 strategy, news and discussion don't mix neither would DotA/LoL/everything else MOBA. | ||
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Praetorial
United States4241 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:52 Dandel Ion wrote: My question: Why not make a "MOBA" section, with DotA, LoL, and whatever else is popular atm (probably Smite soon, HoN used to be decently big) as subforums? I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now. MOBA is a messy term. | ||
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Dandel Ion
Austria17960 Posts
On August 31 2012 03:54 Chiharu Harukaze wrote: It becomes messy when you mix the two games together. The same way BW and SC2 strategy, news and discussion don't mix neither would DotA/LoL/everything else MOBA. But it was both under "Sports & Games" for a long time, and nobody died yet. | ||
AsmodeusXI
United States15536 Posts
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