|
On August 31 2012 05:20 greggy wrote:
Realistically, as much as I like league, dota2 is far more of an "e-sport". League reminds me somewhat of WoW arena attempt at "e-sports" - it's interesting to watch if actually play the game, but really, really dull if you don't. Pro games are just, quite literally, a snoozefest. I'm watching tsm.evo vs crs as I'm typing this and 15 mins in, score was 2-0. 2 kills in 15 minutes means what, 13 minutes of farming and 2 minutes of action? In dota, a kill a minute is pretty much standard (perhaps less so in chinese games), some games going for two kills a minute. end-game score was something like 15-25, because you had 3 consecutive aces before the game ended. First major battle was for dragon around 27 mins in. Thing is, nobody wants to watch farming for 20-25 minutes before the actual fighting starts.
It's kinda related to how stagnant the meta is and how some mechanics (mainly unlimited wards) are not creating an interesting game.
You sir, have been missing out on a whole load of LoL. Check out the Korean and Chinese teams, and also check out TL's analysis too!
|
Straight outta Johto18973 Posts
On August 31 2012 04:05 Takkara wrote:
I found the announcement and explanation about why DotA over LoL to be a little condescending despite them trying to sound fair. I would have been happy with them saying "Our staff plays DotA2, so it makes sense to cover DotA2, if we had more staff that played LoL, then we could pick up LoL". That at least gives us a path forward that could be worked towards. If I'm not mistaken, if we could get more people creating content consistently like Neo/Moon and all the others, then we wouldn't have to "ask" for an expansion, we would just have one.
This announcement just means I have to go out of my way even more now to avoid stupid "LoL isn't a real esport" posts/threads.
Hm. Perhaps it came out that way but no disrespect was meant. We just don't have the resources to cover LoL. Teamliquid has very exacting standard to what we put on the frontpage. That means a serious amount fo work is needed. However, there's very few staff who can actually produce good LoL content and we're already overworked just trying to do what we currently do. On the other hand, there's a sizeable number of staff who play DotA and can produce DotA content. Logistically, it just works out better that way.
Ignore the haters. They just jelly our subforum is so cool and chill cause their LR Threads are full of balance whine and nonsense~
On August 31 2012 04:10 nojitosunrise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 01:09 NeoIllusions wrote:On August 31 2012 00:44 WirelessWaffle wrote:On August 31 2012 00:40 Schmieds wrote:
I'm okay with this. TL LoL is cool right now, and the last thing I'd want to see is the masses or r/LoL coming in here and spoiling it, however elitist that sounds. Imagine the lone mod vs the hordes of redditors foaming at the mouth about their awesome solo eves and legit support zyras that all rush trinity force for tons of damage. If it ever happens I'd like to open the betting for "when will Neo go bat shit insane." I could moderate /r/LoL by myself, npnp. + Show Spoiler + r/leagueoflegends is just ridiculous to mod...I ended up stepping down because of the stuff the I had to deal with. I don't think this news should be a "shock" to anyone. Not everyone likes Riot Games or League of Legends.
I suggest the R1CH mod-bot method. Make a bot to moderate for you. And then it just bans everyone for being a shitty poster like Santa from Futurama. Problem solved. ;o
|
With the amount of money Riot is pumping into competitive LoL right now it is really exploding as an e-sport and I'd love to see TL add a dedicated section just like they did for DotA2. At least consider doing so for Season 3. That being said the DotA2 expansion is still nice to see, it is a good game though I haven't really been following it myself recently. Glad to see that there's not much us-vs-them frothing in this thread, really shows how mature most of the TL community is (there's no reason why multiple e-sports can't coexist peacefully).
On August 31 2012 05:20 greggy wrote:
Realistically, as much as I like league, dota2 is far more of an "e-sport". League reminds me somewhat of WoW arena attempt at "e-sports" - it's interesting to watch if actually play the game, but really, really dull if you don't. Pro games are just, quite literally, a snoozefest. I'm watching tsm.evo vs crs as I'm typing this and 15 mins in, score was 2-0. 2 kills in 15 minutes means what, 13 minutes of farming and 2 minutes of action? In dota, a kill a minute is pretty much standard (perhaps less so in chinese games), some games going for two kills a minute. end-game score was something like 15-25, because you had 3 consecutive aces before the game ended. First major battle was for dragon around 27 mins in. Thing is, nobody wants to watch farming for 20-25 minutes before the actual fighting starts.
It's kinda related to how stagnant the meta is and how some mechanics (mainly unlimited wards) are not creating an interesting game.
Just remember this is a matter of preference, and not some sort of objective fact. I like low kill counts. I actually think kill counts in LoL pro games are still often too high. When a kill happens I want it to mean something, it should be the result of a big play and not just someone being caught ever so slightly out of position. I love skirmishes where everyone goes on low health and then the teams disengage and in the end nobody dies. It isn't everyone's cup of tea but neither are high-killcount games either. And LoL is infinitely more watchable than WoW, I tried watching competitive WoW back when I played it and even then it just wasn't very good to watch.
|
Is not the TL LoL community much larger than the TL Dota community? I'm just wondering.. not upset or anything. I guess I understand why they chose Dota 2 as it seems far more accepted amongst SC2 fans than LoL is.
|
As an outsider to mobas I perceive LoL as the next-big-thing esport and dota2 as an entirely niche product.
Maybe it's just marketing or the attitude of the respective communities but that's how it feels.
|
Does TL have a DotA team? It seems somewhat random that the site is expanding for a game that hasn't been released yet. (not counting beta, of course)
|
|
|
On August 31 2012 03:52 Dandel Ion wrote:
My question: Why not make a "MOBA" section, with DotA, LoL, and whatever else is popular atm (probably Smite soon, HoN used to be decently big) as subforums?
I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now.
because the way things currently stand even labeling the genre as "MOBA" is a political statement
it's a fast growing, lucrative and increasingly competitive market and the conflicts between the companies are reflected by conflict in the community (not surprising seeing how the community created the genre and has to be won over by the publishers) - MOBA vs Action RTS vs Dota-likes, community-developed vs commercial, the trademark dispute (with each side claiming to act in the best interest of the community), Guinsoo vs Icefrog, Riot and Valve trying to outbid each other with price money, ...
Eventually some of the games will die and the rest will find their respective niche and once these niches are sufficiently distinct (so competition is less direct) people will be able to talk to each other again.
But that progress will take a long time and will suffer from disruptions - when I started playing LoL, it was pretty well established that LoL was the "casual" dota-like game and even when Season 1 arrived there were big question marks whether Riot was really committed to turn LoL into an esport (observer mode, replays, ... had been promised since beta but no signs of them). Most competitively minded players played the HoN Beta instead and it looked like the market had been neatly divided between Riot (mainstream audience) and S2 (DotA audience).
But then LoL livestreams grew immensely popular (LoL's graphics lend themselves very well to streaming at lowish bitrates, probably a huge windfall for Riot), Riot began to push seriously into esports, the HoN business model turned out to be a failure, Blizzard started talking about Dota, Valve announced Dota 2 and everything was in motion again.
It will take at least a year or two for the dust to settle and for tempers to cool down.
|
Valve is pushing in-game eSports features into Dota 2 - such as in-game caster commentary, collective viewing experiences, and integrated pricing models for PPV - that far outstrip what Riot has in place. Riot has the advantage of bigger market penetration due to being the first F2P Dota clone besides WC 3 Dota - both HoN and Demi-God were pay to play games - and very intelligent marketing campaigns. But eSports wise, Riot has been throwing money at LoL while Valve has been throwing features, and I think the latter is the smarter move.
|
On August 31 2012 03:52 Dandel Ion wrote:
My question: Why not make a "MOBA" section, with DotA, LoL, and whatever else is popular atm (probably Smite soon, HoN used to be decently big) as subforums?
I don't mind the articles not being frontpaged and such though, I like the LoL forum as it is now.
because other than the main objective the games don't really share anything similar
also most of the Dota 2 community don't like LoL
|
I'm just a lurker but i've to say that TL LoL is clearly the best subforum, and the most enjoyable place with blogs. Being able to read things without the amount of retards and whiners populating the SC2 forum is really cool, and has some ppl said, small communities are the best.
|
As irritated as I am about this, it's nice that I can now completely block the entire DotA2 subforum rather than only being able to minimize it.
It does come as obvious to me that this decision is a very biased one as not as "objective" as the OP would present. There's been consistent favoritism ever since the game was in beta.
When DotA2 was still in beta there was a two week featured event where any Joe Awful could pin their stream and be featured, while huge, official League tournaments couldn't even get an event (and have almost never managed to be on the calendar, only appearing when hosted by someone partnered with TL).
This is in addition to how DotA players were getting featured status by the barrel-full while the game was still in beta (closed beta at that, iirc). Also in addition to DotA getting a sub-section in record time (especially compared to ye olde single GD thread) while barely even released into beta, though this I find less of an issue than anything else.
That's just off the top of my head without even digging back into old threads where more was brought up.
|
On August 31 2012 06:32 Kickboxer wrote:
As an outsider to mobas I perceive LoL as the next-big-thing esport and dota2 as an entirely niche product.
Maybe it's just marketing or the attitude of the respective communities but that's how it feels.
Yeah right, `Niche product`. I guess you know nothing about Dota and its history.
|
They're both large, but in different areas. League is more dominate in the west from what I've seen.
|
United States47024 Posts
On August 31 2012 07:55 Craton wrote:
They're both large, but in different areas. League is more dominate in the west from what I've seen.
That's because Western League players are naive haven't realized how they have no chance against AsianKorean teams.
Western gamers have a poor history of actually sticking to games once Asian competitive dominance asserts itself.
|
On August 31 2012 08:06 TheYango wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 07:55 Craton wrote:
They're both large, but in different areas. League is more dominate in the west from what I've seen. That's because Western League players are naive haven't realized how they have no chance against AsianKorean teams. Western gamers have a poor history of actually sticking to games once Asian competitive dominance asserts itself.
American exceptionalism. If American sucks at it, it isn't exceptional.
I blame public school. Teaches you to coast when you're good at something, and give up when you aren't.
|
On August 31 2012 01:03 little fancy wrote:As long as those DotA2 'hooligans' (the ones that only come here to provoke LoL vs DotA discussions like we had a few times in our GD thread) stay away I don't really care. DotA is known for its much more in-depth mechanical element (denying the enemy your own creeps, flexible path creating and the like) and in this sense is comparable to SC2. I understand the decision but couldn't care less at the same time (no offense). On the other hand, I have to quote a guy a few posts before me: Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 00:34 Amethyst21 wrote:
[...] Small communities=best communities. This pretty much sums it up.
This post sums up my thoughts.
But now I need to put more time into DotA 2 to get decent at it D: I wonder if TL will eventually have a team competing in tournaments for DotA.
|
I don't think anyone who follows LoL is butthurt. These communities are just different. When I think TL, I think elitist. TeamLiuid wants to be the best. Teamliquid is cold and calculated, focused mainly on the Esport.
LoL is more about the actual game than the competitive scene. The community is more creative. People play it to have fun, and the have lots of fun with it. There are comic contests and cosplays along with the tournaments. I honestly don't think a LoL focused expansion is the right move for Teamliquid, no one would come over here to look at the content.
|
On August 31 2012 06:13 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 05:20 greggy wrote:
Realistically, as much as I like league, dota2 is far more of an "e-sport". League reminds me somewhat of WoW arena attempt at "e-sports" - it's interesting to watch if actually play the game, but really, really dull if you don't. Pro games are just, quite literally, a snoozefest. I'm watching tsm.evo vs crs as I'm typing this and 15 mins in, score was 2-0. 2 kills in 15 minutes means what, 13 minutes of farming and 2 minutes of action? In dota, a kill a minute is pretty much standard (perhaps less so in chinese games), some games going for two kills a minute. end-game score was something like 15-25, because you had 3 consecutive aces before the game ended. First major battle was for dragon around 27 mins in. Thing is, nobody wants to watch farming for 20-25 minutes before the actual fighting starts.
It's kinda related to how stagnant the meta is and how some mechanics (mainly unlimited wards) are not creating an interesting game. You sir, have been missing out on a whole load of LoL. Check out the Korean and Chinese teams, and also check out TL's analysis too!
I've read that, and I admit it sounds rather interesting but afaik the koreans made a big impact to the proscene only very recently, and most tournaments are still exclusively EU/NA only?
tbf, I don't follow much pro LoL, it's just not very interesting to watch, imho.
|
On August 31 2012 09:11 greggy wrote:Show nested quote +On August 31 2012 06:13 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:On August 31 2012 05:20 greggy wrote:
Realistically, as much as I like league, dota2 is far more of an "e-sport". League reminds me somewhat of WoW arena attempt at "e-sports" - it's interesting to watch if actually play the game, but really, really dull if you don't. Pro games are just, quite literally, a snoozefest. I'm watching tsm.evo vs crs as I'm typing this and 15 mins in, score was 2-0. 2 kills in 15 minutes means what, 13 minutes of farming and 2 minutes of action? In dota, a kill a minute is pretty much standard (perhaps less so in chinese games), some games going for two kills a minute. end-game score was something like 15-25, because you had 3 consecutive aces before the game ended. First major battle was for dragon around 27 mins in. Thing is, nobody wants to watch farming for 20-25 minutes before the actual fighting starts.
It's kinda related to how stagnant the meta is and how some mechanics (mainly unlimited wards) are not creating an interesting game. You sir, have been missing out on a whole load of LoL. Check out the Korean and Chinese teams, and also check out TL's analysis too! I've read that, and I admit it sounds rather interesting but afaik the koreans made a big impact to the proscene only very recently, and most tournaments are still exclusively EU/NA only?
Correct.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
