EPT[Patch 1.0.0.143: MidJuly-Zyra] General Discussion - Page 33
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Been going fast Kindle instead like people talked about. Rush Shureliya on Skarner 2 strong, never escape. | ||
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arb
Noobville17922 Posts
On July 22 2012 13:55 Requizen wrote: Yet everyone still buying it :\ Been going fast Kindle instead like people talked about. Rush Shureliya on Skarner 2 strong, never escape. Feel so poor without HoG either way. Mostly just trusting what the pros are doing still It hasn't exactly gave stellar stats since they removed the armor from it, and then people were going | ||
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Qualm
721 Posts
On July 22 2012 13:46 Feartheguru wrote: HOG is so awful now, it gives basically no stats and after 12 minutes you finally get what you invested back? Worst interest rate NA. You buy it if you want to build Randuins or Locket, you don't if you you aren't going to. So easy! | ||
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HazMat
United States17077 Posts
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Qualm
721 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:09 HazMat wrote: But only if you're going for Randuins! Because Locket is trash! It's good in aram :D More seriously tho, it's still a good lategame support item I feel. An AoE shield is like an aura: it feels weak, but in fact, 200 shield on 5 people is still a 1k hp shield assuming its broken on everyone, which is usually the case in teamfights. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On paper I feel like Kennen wins, but anytime I've played the matchup (both sides) I feel like Renekton is in control of the lane most of the time. If Ken tries to harass he opens himself up for possible big damage from Renek. Obviously Ken can still try and poke and last hit, but it's dangerous because a slice/dice stun means Ken is going to lose a huge chunk of his hp. Despite my own experience, I still feel like ken should win still... I just never happen to see it. I feel if Ken plays ridiculously well then he can win the lane, but any mistake is punished so unbelievably hard. And the mistake can be as simple as getting a tiny bit too close to the creeps while trying to last hit. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:09 HazMat wrote: But only if you're going for Randuins! Because Locket is trash! I donno, I think Locket is a really good item. It's just my own opinion though. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:08 Qualm wrote: You buy it if you want to build Randuins or Locket, you don't if you you aren't going to. So easy! Except the whole point is if you're planning to buy Randuins after 15 minutes maybe its not worth it to have 350 gold giving you no stats when you could have bought something else with that money instead and bought wardens first when you're building Randuins. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:49 Sufficiency wrote: Am I the only one who think the HoG changes are nice? The top lane is way too snowball-y and the HoG nerf hopefully will reduce this a little bit. The nerf pretty much does not impact support at all as they are typically forced to get HoG regardless (because imo Locket is OP). I tried to think of any possible train of thought you had when you wrote this but I can't figure it out. How does it make top lane less snowbally? No one in their right mind would buy it if they were snowballing. If anything some1 getting crushed would lose their ability to get GP10s and hope for lategame. | ||
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Cloud9157
United States2968 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:33 I_Love_Bacon wrote: Renekton vs Kennen On paper I feel like Kennen wins, but anytime I've played the matchup (both sides) I feel like Renekton is in control of the lane most of the time. If Ken tries to harass he opens himself up for possible big damage from Renek. Obviously Ken can still try and poke and last hit, but it's dangerous because a slice/dice stun means Ken is going to lose a huge chunk of his hp. Despite my own experience, I still feel like ken should win still... I just never happen to see it. I feel if Ken plays ridiculously well then he can win the lane, but any mistake is punished so unbelievably hard. And the mistake can be as simple as getting a tiny bit too close to the creeps while trying to last hit. Whenever I see this matchup played on streams/ranked matches, its usually very slippery. Kennen has the complete advantage purely because of his godly poke+harass. However, if croc even manages to get off one e,w,q combo, Kennen will lose a lot of health. I usually start w against him for good damage at lvl 1. His SnD alone isn't going to do much after the initial damage and the 1 AA he gets off on you. Once I hit 2, I'll grab e, just incase he grabbed. Basically just press e whenever he e's and you're right back at square one. You're now free to poke+harass all you want at him. Honestly, the most dangerous part of facing Renekton in lane is trying to kill him from my experience. He can ult bait you pretty hard, then proceed to use everything on destroying you. Just a very dangerous situation to be in as squishy Kennen. If all else fails, max q and last hit with it. Thats another great thing about pikachu: you can't zone him with anyone, except maybe Yorick. | ||
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:54 Feartheguru wrote: I tried to think of any possible train of thought you had when you wrote this but I can't figure it out. How does it make top lane less snowbally? No one in their right mind would buy it if they were snowballing. If anything some1 getting crushed would lose their ability to get GP10s and hope for lategame. GP10s are far-sighted, long-term strategies which you can pull off if you are already ahead in lane. If you are ahead, buying GP10s (and being able to get away with it) makes you even more ahead. Not only do you get a free item eventually, you can use it to build into Shurelia's/Randuin's. | ||
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thenexusp
United States3721 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:08 Qualm wrote: You buy it if you want to build Randuins or Locket, you don't if you you aren't going to. So easy! I really think getting Warden's first is better if you want Randuin's. | ||
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Craton
United States17281 Posts
On July 22 2012 15:05 Sufficiency wrote: GP10s are far-sighted, long-term strategies which you can pull off if you are already ahead in lane. If you are ahead, buying GP10s (and being able to get away with it) makes you even more ahead. Not only do you get a free item eventually, you can use it to build into Shurelia's/Randuin's. It gives you the potential at a risk. By taking a GP10 you are weaker in a head to head fight, which means their real item will outperform your GP10 item and make up for some or all of the disadvantage if they use it correctly. Of the two primary GP10 items, Philo was nearly always the superior choice, but they nerfed HoG rather randomly. I don't think it's accomplished much of anything other than being an annoyance for a handful of champs in a small number of situations. | ||
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DURRHURRDERP
Canada929 Posts
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Sufficiency
Canada23833 Posts
On July 22 2012 15:23 DURRHURRDERP wrote: GP10s are good if you're getting crushed in lane, if you're winning just buy dorans. I donno if I like this. Buying GP10 when you are behind makes you even more behind; it's more of a defeatist's strategy (I give up on my lane so you can go ahead and free-farm this). If I want to at least try to win the lane back, I'd get Dorans as they are more gold-efficient. | ||
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MooMooMugi
United States10531 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On July 22 2012 14:08 Qualm wrote: You buy it if you want to build Randuins or Locket, you don't if you you aren't going to. So easy! Fuck that. Warden's first Randuin's. Even if you're building Randuin's, why would you want to put yourself 300 gold behind par? Having 300 gold less worth of items actually makes a big deal when you buy HoG at like 10 minutes because you only have like 2k gold worth of items. And when you finish Randuin's at 20 minutes? You've generated 300 gold in that time, and you've got like 5-6k worth of items. Relatively speaking, it doesn't put you as far ahead at 20 minutes as you were behind at 10. On July 22 2012 15:23 DURRHURRDERP wrote: GP10s are good if you're getting crushed in lane, if you're winning just buy dorans. Or get Doran's if you're behind, and if you're ahead finish real items instead of mucking around with either. Buying Doran's when you're behind is essentially the LoL equivalent of building mass static defenses to stop a push. Their effectiveness in the long run isn't going to be that good, but if you're behind, the enemy is going to hit their core item timing faster than you (e.g. AD carry's IE being a couple minutes faster than yours). Realistically, the enemy team should be able to use this timing to press an advantage (e.g. take Dragon) and attempt to further their lead. You pretty much can't match their IE timing at this pace, so you buy Doran's because 2 Doran's + BF + Pickaxe has a better chance of fighting IE than 2 Doran's + BF +Critcloak. Conversely, buying gp10 when you're behind is like trying to expand when you know you're opponent has a push timing sooner than your expansion can kick in. You trash your immediate effectiveness in hope that your opponent cannot punish you for it, but realistically, gp10s take so long to kick in that this isn't practical. You can't finish double gp10 at 10 minutes, and expect your opponent not to have forced a significant teamfight or objective by 20 (which is when your HoG would break even). Gp10s have the highest effectiveness in cases where the loss of stats matters minimally--that is, your opponent cannot abuse the fact that you are weaker than you should be at a given point in time. This made them somewhat appealing for top lane (who, practically speaking, are often the least likely to leave lane) and on supports (who often would just sit around gaining gold on their gp10s, and a non-gp10 support could realistically not push an advantage off of having a superior item right away). But with HoG taking so long to actually break even, those cases are exceedingly rare. The timing window during which HoG is weaker than other item alternatives has effectively doubled (breakeven time from 6 mins to 12 mins) which is a VERY long time to expect things not to happen. | ||
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schmutttt
Australia3856 Posts
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