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On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly.
oh man i've played a quite a few games with goldfather recently and he really did not impress me in any of them
never won lane tbh and jungled okay
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On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly.
A detailed guide does not make a good guide or player. I could write a very very detailed guide, a big fat book and it could be full of shit.
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wish i could queue dodge everytime someone on my team buys a doran's as a first item, 10 ad doesn't mean shit when your opponent is coming into lane with 370-670 more hp than you.
if you take any damage at all the lane is over until you back and let your opponent free farm while your turret takes your cs, jungler can't even gank to help you because a 1 for 1 trade is pretty much the best you can hope for and feeding a double kill is probably more likely than a clean successful gank against a lot of champs.
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There's a crying thread for that.
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Curse should hire aphro to coach them.
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On July 22 2012 06:24 Craton wrote:
There's a crying thread for that.
which thread should i go to if i want to make nothing but mildly insulting, snarky, pedantic posts?
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On July 22 2012 06:41 chalice wrote:which thread should i go to if i want to make nothing but mildly insulting, snarky, pedantic posts?
Tech support thread.
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On July 22 2012 06:12 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly. A detailed guide does not make a good guide or player. I could write a very very detailed guide, a big fat book and it could be full of shit.
Like the Twilight series.
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On July 22 2012 06:58 BlackPaladin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 06:12 JackDino wrote:On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly. A detailed guide does not make a good guide or player. I could write a very very detailed guide, a big fat book and it could be full of shit. Like the Twilight series.
Most detailed vlad guide around imo.
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On July 22 2012 06:12 JackDino wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly. A detailed guide does not make a good guide or player. I could write a very very detailed guide, a big fat book and it could be full of shit.
Yeah, he's only a 2300 top rating riven player with 800+ ranked games on her, he's probably full of shit.
We should have elo in people's sigs in this subforum so that when people post asinine garbage like you without knowing anything, we can make fun of them for being awful.
User was warned for this post
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On July 22 2012 07:03 Thermia wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 06:12 JackDino wrote:On July 22 2012 04:58 Leonite7 wrote:On July 22 2012 04:53 Feartheguru wrote:On July 22 2012 04:34 greggy wrote:On July 22 2012 03:00 UniversalSnip wrote:On July 22 2012 02:37 ticklishmusic wrote:On July 21 2012 15:40 Frolossus wrote:On July 21 2012 15:39 IMoperator wrote:
Trying to play trist as an ad carry, and I can't seem to do well with her. Early/mid game it seems like she does no damage to anybody, and I can't harass in lane very well (even with her long range) and I don't get any kills. I've been going boots/pots start into 2 dorans into IE, is this a good build? any help would be appreciated. max W first and lane with blitz/leona/alistar ^Blitz is just a good support in general, though Tristana's W does go nicely with his pull/pop up. My friend/duo who plays Tristana as a carry complains about her damage falling off a bit midgame, but if you can get her farmed up early game or afk farmed through midgame, she becomes an absolute terror lategame with 700 range. Err... I think the only ADC with more AA range initially than you are Ashe, Varus and Cait. Around 8-11 (depending on enemy) you can start really abusing your range. I don't feel like Tris really needs boots first b/c she has her W as a quick closer/escape already. Plus, she has prettybad base attack. Early on you're going to rely on your support quite a bit to make plays for good trades b/c you're going to have lower atk dmg than the other ADC unless you have better runes. My friend usually starts Doran's with heal/flash and I take faerie/3green with heal/exhaust as Blitz support. I'm not 100% sure but I think after that he gets just gets boots and BF, then rushes IE and Beserker's. Are we lacking ignite? Yes we are. Still, given the gap closers in the Tris/Blitz combo plus the effect from Tris's E, ignite seems okay to skip. starting doran's blade, ring or shield is bad, in every lane, with every hero. If you keep winning with it eventually you will reach a point where your opponents start abusing it and you'll have to switch it up. Generalised advice is pretty bad, too. Doran's start riven is strong and beats people in most matchups. Eh. no dblade start on riven is pretty bad and against anyone competent you should do pretty poorly, even without jungle pressure. Goldfather ( The author of the most detailed Riven guide ever) disagrees with you and believes that it can give you a huge advantage over certain laners when played correctly. A detailed guide does not make a good guide or player. I could write a very very detailed guide, a big fat book and it could be full of shit. Yeah, he's only a 2300 top rating riven player with 800+ ranked games on her, he's probably full of shit. We should have elo in people's sigs in this subforum so that when people post asinine garbage like you without knowing anything, we can make fun of them for being awful.
edit: goldfather is ok. just cuz he's high elo doesn't mean you can't question some openings. its okay, but not end of all "counter" if the enemy knows what to get.
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On July 22 2012 06:08 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
If you start D-Blade/Ring against someone with Boots+3 they are going to force a trade and then heal up and force a trade again. Unless you're in, I dunno, Soraka lane, it's probably going to go badly. And even then they might just all-in you on their 3rd hpot after continual harass. No boots also exposes you more to ganks against junglers who started boots. I really don't advise it.
Well in theory if you have a champ that can force an all in trade @ level 1, you will win with dorans. I remember Smash starting dorans with Panth some time ago, but i think continual jungle pressure made him chance to boots.
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On July 22 2012 07:33 Gaslo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 06:08 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
If you start D-Blade/Ring against someone with Boots+3 they are going to force a trade and then heal up and force a trade again. Unless you're in, I dunno, Soraka lane, it's probably going to go badly. And even then they might just all-in you on their 3rd hpot after continual harass. No boots also exposes you more to ganks against junglers who started boots. I really don't advise it. Well in theory if you have a champ that can force an all in trade @ level 1, you will win with dorans. I remember Smash starting dorans with Panth some time ago, but i think continual jungle pressure made him chance to boots.
I thought it was since you always went all in early with dorans(which is why you start i thought) you'd always live with very very low health, and the hp nerf made him end up changing to boots?
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On July 22 2012 07:39 arb wrote:Show nested quote +On July 22 2012 07:33 Gaslo wrote:On July 22 2012 06:08 Chiharu Harukaze wrote:
If you start D-Blade/Ring against someone with Boots+3 they are going to force a trade and then heal up and force a trade again. Unless you're in, I dunno, Soraka lane, it's probably going to go badly. And even then they might just all-in you on their 3rd hpot after continual harass. No boots also exposes you more to ganks against junglers who started boots. I really don't advise it. Well in theory if you have a champ that can force an all in trade @ level 1, you will win with dorans. I remember Smash starting dorans with Panth some time ago, but i think continual jungle pressure made him chance to boots. I thought it was since you always went all in early with dorans(which is why you start i thought) you'd always live with very very low health, and the hp nerf made him end up changing to boots?
Depending on the opponent, pant doesn't take that much damage in lane or when trading because of his passive, while having really good harass and trading damage.
The reason he starts boots is because junglers camp him.
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I did add the modifier that Doran's was only good if you felt your support was good. Anyways, I'm not sure how the discussion about starting Doran's on Tristana turned into "Doran's suck in general", though I disagree with such broad generalizations (which are generally incorrect). So, back to Tristana.
Boots does give you some mobility to escape and stuff, but Tristana has her escape/closer with w. I play mainly blitz/lulu/janna support, so I have good kits for saving my carry w/ pulls, knock ups, slows, shields, etc. Ganks are really not a problem either b/c wards are OP. All-ins aren't really a problem b/c the three supports I play have so much CC that I can force a reset pretty easily. The only champ that seems to cause trouble is Ali. Fuck you Golden Ali.
If you all-in against Tristana and fail, you're screwed. Tristana's ever-increasing range combined with her w lets her outharass most champs. Since Tristana range increases per level, she essentially "gets stronger more" than other champs while in lane, kind of like Ryze with a tear. Doran's plus masteries gives 6% lifesteal off the bat as well which exceeds the 450 hp from pots after some time (I'm even being nice here b/c Doran's gives you 80hp as well). In a way, you could treat that small amount of lifesteal as an extra couple hp5.
I've played maybe 150-ish games tops supporting Tristana and am at around 1400 elo. Scrub level, but that's my 5cents on taking Doran's.
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On July 22 2012 07:42 ticklishmusic wrote:
I did add the modifier that Doran's was only good if you felt your support was good. Anyways, I'm not sure how the discussion about starting Doran's on Tristana turned into "Doran's suck in general", though I disagree with such broad generalizations (which are generally incorrect). So, back to Tristana.
Boots does give you some mobility to escape and stuff, but Tristana has her escape/closer with w. I play mainly blitz/lulu/janna support, so I have good kits for saving my carry w/ pulls, knock ups, slows, shields, etc. Ganks are really not a problem either b/c wards are OP. All-ins aren't really a problem b/c the three supports I play have so much CC that I can force a reset pretty easily. The only champ that seems to cause trouble is Ali. Fuck you Golden Ali.
If you all-in against Tristana and fail, you're screwed. Tristana's ever-increasing range combined with her w lets her outharass most champs. Since Tristana range increases per level, she essentially "gets stronger more" than other champs while in lane, kind of like Ryze with a tear. Doran's plus masteries gives 6% lifesteal off the bat as well which exceeds the 450 hp from pots after some time (I'm even being nice here b/c Doran's gives you 80hp as well). In a way, you could treat that small amount of lifesteal as an extra couple hp5.
I've played maybe 150-ish games tops supporting Tristana and am at around 1400 elo. Scrub level, but that's my 5cents on taking Doran's.
I think in a lane where you're going to have high sustain it'd be good, but otherwise i 'd always take the mobility of boots over dorans
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you still run into the same problems starting dorans with a sustain support. For example if you're with soraka she'll have to use heal on cooldown, means she can't use it to buff you = you lose every trade. With any support doran opening means you are completely reliant on the all in. You not only aren't healing vs harass, you take free hits because you're so vulnerable going in for cs and your opponent isn't. Every time you last hit there's a window where the other carry can come in, tap you for free and back off because your attack isn't back up, with no boots that window is huge for him, and the window for you to do the same is tiny because you are so slow. Just think about the effect movespeed has on getting your hero physically to the right place to do that. That's like the basis of trading bot lane and dorans opening shows a complete lack of understanding of it.
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Even if you have Soraka support, you still need to play boots + 3 pots.
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Wow, ok, I know I shit talk Cait a lot, but I just played her in ranked on a whim and she's actually really still fucking good. She still lacks dueling potential or strong burst, but her zoning is so good, and there's very few things as satisfying as ulting someone who thought they got away.
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Sniping them as Ezreal, Draven or Ashe is. :$
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EPT
