EPT[Patch 1.0.0.131: Viktor] General Discussion - Page 42
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
If both of the AD carries have five deaths whichever one gets out of position first again is going to lose the fight for their team. There's no reason to have five deaths on the ad carry ^_^ | ||
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Parnage
United States7414 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:12 Blyf wrote: What a disappointing post from someone who is supposed to be an "authority". Spinesheath raises an interesting question based on a logical disparity between the item choices for supports and for other roles. He bases his standpoint entirely on logical reasoning, and invites anyone to dispute his logic. The gist of Spine's original query: "if it works on supports because it is cost effective, why does it not work on any other role?" still stands. Now you say that shitty logic should be grounds for warning. I present to you: Your own logic. "2a. Bought before 15 mins, HoG will pay for itself". How does that resolve the matter? HoG pays for itself on everyone, not just support. And the grand finale: "P10 are good for support roles, period." Logic anyone? I expected better from you Neo, but this it unfortunately not the first time I see you turn down on people who present standpoints which are different from the standard way of thinking. I'm all for closing a discussion when there is nothing more to discuss, but not like this. And not to address the points in your post: 1. Agreed. Gp10 is just bonus. 2a. Paying for itself is not a quality in itself. If all that matters is end game gold efficiency in items, why would anyone take flat over scaling runes? 2b. Nothing to add. The question is if HoG is worth it in the first place. 3. Well. Not really an argument, so can't say much about it. GP10 items are an investment where you sacrifice immediate strength for stronger late game. When is this favorable? People stack Doran's and build almost entirely flat runes to max out early/mid game strength. GP10 items seem so lackluster in this regard. I'am going to step into this. Because damn it if I don't feel like pointing this out and that Neo is rocksolid on his observations. Let me put this as simply as I can because it just seems like people forget these things. The reason you use gp10 items is because a champion isn't getting cs or kills. Who falls into this you may ask? Let's go down the list. Supports: They are not getting cs they are not getting kills they are sitting in lanes or roaming planting and clearing wards and ideally building supporty type items like Shurielias(Hey what's that built from...) and on occasion even Randuins(FOCUS THE SUPPORT GO AHEAD I DARE YOU) they need the gold to generate ward cash and cash for items. gp10less supports tend to be the ones you don't want in a game. I speak from experience and so do you even if you don't know it because you've had games where all the wards they did not exist. Junglers: They are getting some CS and they are getting some kills but often they'll be running around alot and roaming and trying to deal with lane problems on some champions a heart of gold or a philostone or even Avi blade allows you to not only build into useful items later on but makes you roaming about into lanes not too big of a deal as you are still making some gold. Most times however you'll see them with just one gp10 item a heart of gold(because randuins is awesum) Top lanes: GP10 is generally seen in these lanes when you know you won't be taking any kills and your essentially setting up a 20-30 minute farm this lane and do nothing game. When facing a champion like Cho'gath you hit that point and he hits that point where it's easier to just farm the lane and if you can generate more farm in that time you get to eventually be the bigger threat in the mid-late game. Why other lanes don't take it? Why no gp10 mids or ad carry bots? No idea. Most likely as you said they need to maximize the damage they deal and because of the nature of those champions(often good damage but low health) need to get the biggest bang for the buck. I forgot what else I was going to say because of this post..damnations. | ||
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icemanzdoinwork
447 Posts
If anyone just feels like trolling try Lee/Monkey bot. Just so much damage lvl 2 and on. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:12 Blyf wrote: 2a. Paying for itself is not a quality in itself. If all that matters is end game gold efficiency in items, why would anyone take flat over scaling runes? You are basically saying that supports autolose lane if they go for HoG over kindlegem(the reason you take flat over scaling runes is to help your laning). If you go armour/lvl instead of flat armour against someone like pant you're going to get raped so incredibly hard. Think about what you say before you criticize others about posting stupid logic when you don't even know the logic behind gp10 on supports, it's surely not end game gold efficiency. If you're going HoG and the enemy support has kindlegem they have to be incredibly good to win the lane with 10% more cdr and 50 less health. GP10 items are an investment where you sacrifice immediate strength for stronger late game. When is this favorable? People stack Doran's and build almost entirely flat runes to max out early/mid game strength. GP10 items seem so lackluster in this regard. People don't go GP10 so they have more gold lategame, supports go GP10 because the items provide usefull stats and give them some gold at the same time, they don't get any other gold. The thing is however, going kindlegem over HoG gets you a faster reverie which is incredible for teamfights. Going for a ruby crystal over HoG is great because it gets you a way faster aegis which is awesome for teamfights. HoG is a decent item depending on if you need it in lane and when you get it. Kage's pick is a terrible item for support since they barely use the AP, it's just as bad as avarice for supports imo. Compaing doran's to gp10 is just dumb because that support with a doran isn't going to crush the support with the philo or the HoG, while the latter gets gold. If you plan to build one of the items gp10 builds into and you can get away with it, always get it asap. | ||
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Ayush_SCtoss
India3051 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:23 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: The problem with late game ezreal is that people almost always go for a bruta sheen build. This translates into a very strong mid game and a weaker late game. If you can push the advantage you have it isn't a bad build, but if you don't gain that advantage you will fall behind carries who went for IE/PD builds. It's like all the people who complain about Caitlyn falling off when they don't build an IE. You don't scale into late game when you build items that don't scale as well. If both of the AD carries have five deaths whichever one gets out of position first again is going to lose the fight for their team. There's no reason to have five deaths on the ad carry ^_^ I'm obviously no one to talk about 2k elo guys playing Ezreal (since I never did get accustomed to champions except for Noct/Ez so never played ranked) but I feel most of the builds that rush triforce don't really help straightaway as they will just get blocked by tanks or something and due to no sustain it will contribute to a weak midgame (usually, most of them have phage and sheen). This is just one reason I favor going Wriggles instead of Brutalizer (although you could go brutalizer after wriggles for that arpen but it may hinder the availability of TriForce). I dunno if it seems like I explained properly but oh well. Just my opinion. Either way I am really interested on what Riot will do if at all. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
Not to mention his range is 50 shorter than every standard ad carry, so even if you do build a standard ie-pd route you will be much less safe than even ashe. | ||
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Noocta
France12578 Posts
Add an IE after that if you can, and your damage is monstruous. If you are running into people building early armor in midgame, juste build a sheen, skip the rest of trinity, build the LW and finish trinity afterwards. And his range is NORMAL. Hell, 550 is the SAME range as Vayne. Go AA.. someone jump you ? E out. Jumped again ? Flash. Jumped again ? E out again because it's already back up. Ezreal is like the easiest AD to go AA with if you don't count the high range carry. :/ | ||
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obesechicken13
United States10467 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:07 Alaric wrote: Sounds like a bug, considering the description of the item. I should try it again... Ok no I was wrong. Ghostblade does last longer on melee champions. Sorry for the confusion. | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:42 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: Well yeah, I see where you are coming from. I just used those numbers without giving it much thought. It's more of a vayne thing than anything really, her ult is really good for 1v1s and if there are any walls around you are pretty much dead. She just kinda gets more hits in because of the ult and tumble. On January 03 2012 03:47 Two_DoWn wrote: The biggest problem with ez is that his main damage source is an ability, which completely negates the multiplicative damage steroid of ad carries- aspeed. Not to mention his range is 50 shorter than every standard ad carry, so even if you do build a standard ie-pd route you will be much less safe than even ashe. His main damage source is not an ability, it's his auto. His Q is only good early-late and it scales 1:1 with AD, meaning that even if you go full ad you'll still scale with attackspeed. He even gets 50% free attackspeed from his passive. Ez Q has a 3sec cd at rank 5, ashe volley has a 4sec cd at rank 5. It's like playing ashe and only stacking ad and spamming volley and complaining you don't do as much damage as other carries. People have to stop playing ez like he's an ad mage and play him for what he is, an ad carry. Also, since when is 600 range the standard for ad carries? Corki has less, MF has less, graves has less, vayne has less, sivir has less. You have a 3sec cd 1100 range ability and a free flash to deal with range, most other carries don't have those. | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
Her passive is absolutely amazing. Her Q hits like a fucking truck once she gets sheen. As soon as she gets Triforce, she's really good. It's just that her laning seems very week. Has anyone figured out a way to make her viable (runes and masteries) so that she can get to her insane phase? | ||
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Blitzkrieg0
United States13132 Posts
On January 03 2012 03:42 Ayush_SCtoss wrote: Well yeah, I see where you are coming from. I just used those numbers without giving it much thought. I'm obviously no one to talk about 2k elo guys playing Ezreal (since I never did get accustomed to champions except for Noct/Ez so never played ranked) but I feel most of the builds that rush triforce don't really help straightaway as they will just get blocked by tanks or something and due to no sustain it will contribute to a weak midgame (usually, most of them have phage and sheen). This is just one reason I favor going Wriggles instead of Brutalizer (although you could go brutalizer after wriggles for that arpen but it may hinder the availability of TriForce). I dunno if it seems like I explained properly but oh well. Just my opinion. Either way I am really interested on what Riot will do if at all. Q has 1100 range. You shouldn't need lifesteal when you never get hit in the first place  | ||
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:10 Blitzkrieg0 wrote: Q has 1100 range. You shouldn't need lifesteal when you never get hit in the first place You always get hit if you jump in peoples faces, which is surprisingly effective. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:10 jcarlsoniv wrote: I'm watching Bob's stream atm, and he's playing top Poppy. Granted, the Talon he's laning against is pretty bad, he's doing very well. Poppy was one of my favorite champions leveling up, but I haven't played her in a long time because I couldn't really see her being viable anywhere. Her passive is absolutely amazing. Her Q hits like a fucking truck once she gets sheen. As soon as she gets Triforce, she's really good. It's just that her laning seems very week. Has anyone figured out a way to make her viable (runes and masteries) so that she can get to her insane phase? i actually played against a poppy who ran armor reds/yellows/blues and hp5 quints, 21 def spec (pre s2 mastery change) and just went top lane and never died and farmed a kajillion gold. i was panth, and literally could not kill her, and while she never killed me, she just ended up outscaling me by a million miles. | ||
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Tooplark
United States3977 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:10 jcarlsoniv wrote: I'm watching Bob's stream atm, and he's playing top Poppy. Granted, the Talon he's laning against is pretty bad, he's doing very well. Poppy was one of my favorite champions leveling up, but I haven't played her in a long time because I couldn't really see her being viable anywhere. Her passive is absolutely amazing. Her Q hits like a fucking truck once she gets sheen. As soon as she gets Triforce, she's really good. It's just that her laning seems very week. Has anyone figured out a way to make her viable (runes and masteries) so that she can get to her insane phase? you can actually manage a pretty decent lane against most people with 0/9/21, hp regen quints and yellows, magic pen reds and mr or cdr or w/e in blues since poppy's health is basically doubled when it's low, the regen lets you stay stupidly unkillable in lane and win trades with a lot of people i don't recommend picking her except in draft though, because you have to make SURE you aren't fighting certain champs that totally destroy you, like Teemo or (to a lesser extent) Gangplank. also I'm not sure whether triforce or lifesteal/spellvamp is higher priority on poppy. Triforce means super easy chasing and better killing, but vamp turns you into a chump-chumpin machine | ||
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wei2coolman
United States60033 Posts
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JackDino
Gabon6219 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:22 wei2coolman wrote: Okay, Seriously. How do I lane against a Kass as a Swain? or do I just say fuck it, and go another lane? Shoot your shit on him after the silence runs out, pre 6 you can try to bind him, post 6 you should be able to walk at him and shoot all your shit at him when his Q and R are on cd. Or do it when he tries to cs, also auto him when he cses. Won't work if he runs full MR runes though or opens null mantle with some MR runes. Dont forget that E makes your autos hit harder. | ||
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Alaric
France45622 Posts
 Regarding Poppy, someone on Shurelya/Lily's stream just ran Leona-Poppy bot. They farmed the opponent's Vayne from level 1, and whenever she (and sometimes her support) was dead, they'd let Poppy farm. Then again, the whole game was an utter rape (21-3 or so at 20 minutes) and their opponents didn't look that good. | ||
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Kaniol
Poland5551 Posts
On January 03 2012 04:22 wei2coolman wrote: Okay, Seriously. How do I lane against a Kass as a Swain? or do I just say fuck it, and go another lane? Go back to champion select and pick cait | ||
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