[Patch 1.0.0.128: Shyvana] General Discussion - Page 6

On November 01 2011 21:31 Gooey wrote:
Oh good god, I just thought of something.

Any minute now, tALbuk is going to come in here... and see the patch notes...

Wukong buffs. O boy...

On November 01 2011 22:08 ItsFunToLose wrote:
Anything but a broken amount of AD on her Q would make her all but bottom tier with a range nerf. Its ignorant to assume she'd be competitive with a stronger Q poke or traps that actually did damage if she had 550 range or an unblockable ultimate. I don't think her kit actually has a sweet spot where if you brought her range down, her ratios could be fiddled with.

She's only good because she had 650 range.

Why is this a bad thing?

On November 01 2011 21:03 Phrost wrote:

Pickpocket hero that steals gold
-- this is stupid, why don't you just kill them instead? Because it is hard to kill other hero, this is a different kind of herass instead of the same ol' cone spell etc. Imagine this used as a counter pick to a hero that is really farm depended. Use your imagination a little?

I already explained this, it would counterpick every hero in the game, or the hero with the skill would suck a lot.

Support hero who lays down neutral buffs on the ground (stand in it to get effect) (maybe can blow them up as ult/trap)
--Mobility is king, soraka already has very little and look how easy she is to kill? ... this example is a support that lay down buffs ala rally. So your team have to decide if it's good to stand on it. Also the other team can try and steal the buff by getting themselves into a better position. And at last you can bait with a buff on the ground. Sounds fun to me.

There is nothing good about it, you sit in it, they know you're there, you dont sit in it, what's the point? It also forces your team into a small area that makes them more susceptible to aoe, none of which you want to do anyway.

Hero who can disguise as a creep
--Why not just make it stealth and call it a day? It would be even more obvious than stealth to detect. Yeah, this is kind of stealth but why only have one, think out of the box ffs. It could also be that it exhange itself with a creep so the creep looks like the hero and the hero looks like the creep. And you can of course control both. It's a fun decoy.

What are the advantages of this over stealth? It's harder to control and easier to read. It sucks to be person playing with that skill.

Hero who can reflect/rebound skills
--how shitty does it feel if you play against characters that you cant reflect their spells? This is incredibly niche ( sivir's spell shield is very similar but it wouldn't make sense for some of the stuff it absorbs to be reflected ) I don't even udnerstand how you can compare to sivir spell shield. This mechanic would be so much fun, and imagine a pro game where a skillshot is reflected back to another low hp enemy (like angle in = angle out) and kills him. Potential for so really fun/cool moments.

Yeah but how do you account for single target spells? I don't know if league of legends has vectors for targeted spells so bouncing them back may not be initially possible. Also how do you balance a champion around reflecting a widely varying unknown amount of damage? Either all of their other skills will suffer or they will be useless. You can make it reflect % of the damage, but that also makes the tooltip long and clunky.

Trap skill that fires in a direction
-- what does this mean? Do things not usually fire in a direction? Really that is your reply? This of course means a turret ala herimerdinger that only shoot in front of it for example but deals more dmg. So you can dogde it but then it have the benefit of more dmg. Many possibilites here.

How do you aim this? Have you thought maybe existing controls don't lead to good situations where you'd be able to aim where you want? The wall targeting scheme is already pretty meh, I don't think I'd like a turret that only shoots away from me.

Skill that slows down all time in a bubble
--You want an aoe slow instead of stun? Again, you completely misunderstand. In this bubble also projectiles etc slows down. Easy dogde of all non instant spells. Fun mechanic imo

Do you know if there is existing tech in the game to allow this to be possible? Who does it effect? How do you deal with that amount of power on one ability? Is the range super small then it seems useless a lot of the time, enemies will just avoid it. IF its big, then the hero that has it will have their other abilities suffer.

Hero that buffs and sacs creeps
--We learned from gangplank that this is a fucking terrible idea. Finally I agree. Denying does not fit in LoL when you cannot attack deny.


Skill that reduces other heroes skill range
--Graves and nocturne already do this. Ehh? He is writing skill range not sight range. Wow.

You can't hit what you can't see. This is a much easier way of representing this to a newer player.


Skill that turns a damaging enemy spell into a heal
--We learned from essence flux, this is a shitty idea. LOL, no we did not. What he means is an ENEMY spell dmg turned into dmg. This is like sivirs spell shield just with health instead of mana. Obviously it should not block CC just dmg.

Nothing is obvious about the description. Obviously you're making assumptions, and we all know what that does. I don't have a particularly large opposition to a health spellshield, it sounds fine to me. It's basically a more difficult to use version of remove scurvy.


Skill that makes temporary brush (kind of opposite of graves)
--That would be a pain in the ass to code and I don't see any particular benefit. You will know someone is inside and just not facecheck. Why talk about coding? Your other argument I can relate to.

Because if it's not already in the game then you need an engineer to write new code to support the skill. The designers use LUA scripts to make most of the abilities. If you pull engineering time away to implement one skill then it takes that much longer for other features you want (replays, obs mode, new maps, etc)

Hero who doesn't lane and gets money from walking
--So junglers and roaming support, already in the game. Roaming is in the game yes, but it is too weak atm to be used in almost all levels of play. Could be fun if there actually were some natural roaming heros to add to the list of Carry/bruiser/jungle/ap carry etc. If balanced would give more variaty in the games.


All it would do is make supports obsolete or the champions would be banned in competitive play until there was atleast 5 that had a similar role.

Hero who fucks with the minimap
--Does nocturne's ult already do that? I think it does. Agree

skills which deal damage based on distance target traveled over X time
--Nidalee's Spear. You didn't really think these out did you? Unless you want it to be a dot, then what's the point? No Nid spear does NOT do that... Nids spear deals dmg based on the distance traveled of the spear, not the target. It is a fun mechanic because the target has to decide between moving to safety and maybe die or stay and maybe get caught.

Yeah bloodseeker's ult is dumb. Morgana's ult does a similar risk/reward without having mechanics that are difficult to show and difficult for new players to understand. The barrier of entry must be low for players that are unfamiliar with every hero. IF you can't think of a very VERY descriptive spell effect for a complex ability then it probably won't get into the game.

Low CD skill which greatly speeds and then greatly slows target hero (can be used on enemies and allies)
--Time Warp has like 2-3 second cooldown for a 55% slow/speed increase with sufficient levels of rewind. Agree

Skill which fires pattern of small projectiles that you have to dodge raiden style
--I dont know what this means. Could be a fun mechanic but would be hard to design to be really fun

I think he's talking about something to TF's card throwing (someone else posted this). It's not new

big round Aoe skill whose only safe zone is right near the caster (minimum range)
--So all cone based aoes / skill shots? When you're really close they're really hard to aim because you came move very slightly and avoid everything. No? Its like Panths jump just opposite. Run near to the center (and get out of position) or to the enemy hero casting it to avoid dmg. Decision making spells are always fun.

Decisions that are the choice between shitsville and a rock are not really fun. The risk of getting close is that the aoe will be more likely to hit, the reward is that if you time your dodge timing then it will miss.

circle skill which if you cross the edge moves you to the opposite edge like going off the screen in asteroids
--Why not just stun you instead and call it a day? This seems like a very confusing implementation for Veigar's stun. Anivias wall begs to differ so does oriannas ult. Displacement spells are always fun and I think there could be more in LoL.

Anivia's wall doesn't do anything like that. Orianna's just tosses you to the opposite side. Most of the time this ability will just allow people to escape easily because you can't lead with it. I also can't think of a particularly descriptive graphic or way to set up this skill that doesn't seem clunky.

Hero who consumes and stores buffs and debuffs from other heroes for later use (maybe only debuffs to prevent trolling)
--What is considered a buff and debuff? Can you steal steroids? Dispelling is not a really big deal in LoL like it was in dota. This could be really really overpowered without much work if its the only champion with the ability. I agree, this would be very hard to balance. But if balanced could be fun.

Balancing it would require atleast 4 other heros with the same functionality. The problem with new powerful concepts is if they are necessary for a team then they will get banned in ranked until everyone can have one.

Hero who passively powers up by standing still
--This promotes passivity, Xerath's and Kogmaw's long range is the best example of limited mobility for increased rewards
Agree but still should be in the game. Variaty ftw.

Variety? It's just annoying, nobody wants to sit still and do nothing. It feels like forever to me when I sit still long enough to channel gragas' drink. I don't think it will make the game more fun if you do less.

Hero who targets all their skills to areas and then releases ("run program") them with another skill (have to predict enemies)
--This sounds incredibly confusing and the risk/reward would have to be rediculously high to make it anywhere near worth while for anyone to play. This brings a lot of power creep with it unnecessarily.

Hero who can turn invisible to all heroes except one (I SWEAR HE'S RIGHT HERE, AOE TO MY LEFT!)
--Lux's shield used to do this, it felt crappy to play against.

Skill which tags enemies with parasitic vision like queen in BW
--Nidalee and Caitlin's traps already do this.

Skill which makes enemies lose control of movement and "slide" in the direction they were going at increased speed
--Why not just knockback or stun? There are much simpler ways to get the same effect, this is purely visual. Does not have to "stun" the hero while it slides, just displacement. Also it can get enemies out of position (imagine the tank just sliding way past the fight (I would find that funny)). It could also be used to save allies due to the increased speed. Could also force dives. Alot of possibilites, I like it.

Alistar's headbutt already does this. The difference is that his spell does this very quickly with a very minor stun as opposed to a longer more frustrating loss of control. Nobody feels good when they get feared, I can't find anyone feeling good when they go sliding off in some random direction for an extended period of time.

Hero who gets buffs in River
--This isnt dota, and not every map will have a river (see dominion). Again, could be a roam hero mechanic. But would be hard to balance due to dragon baron in water.

What do you do on a map with no rivers? they just have a useless skill? Veigar's ultimate was far less niche and still felt terrible when you shot someone that didnt have a lot of AP.

Support hero who carries Items to other heroes
--No couriers, you dont lose gold for dying. Go to base and buy it. Supports already have enough of a bitch role.

Heroes with non-expiring controllable minion
--You want a syllabear? It's going to suck if you can't aim where it's attacking. Also heimer's turrets are essentially the same except they dont move.

Hero who places portals, go ontop of one---> tele to the other, can stealth them to trick enemies into them.
--This would be either really bad or really broken, it depends on the cast range of the portal.

Hero who burns mana (still not in LOL)
--And never will be. There are too many heros without mana

Hero who can switch their mana and health
--Why? Blitz already has a mana shield and that's obnoxious to play against.

Hero who can force other heroes to use skills (spell taunt)
--How do you make this intelligent AI? What do you do with skill shots?. Yeah this would be hard to make meaningful but still sounds like fun.

Thats just some cool shit off the top of my head....I wanna see this kind of stuff instead of "herp, durp, imma dragon now my skills do AOE"

Those are some bad suggestions, as I commented.

On November 01 2011 21:14 -Zoda- wrote:

Forgot about this one yeah. But the ball can't autoattack.

Also some ideas given are already in the geme like :
Skill that makes temporary brush (kind of opposite of graves) = Akali's shroud
Skill which fires pattern of small projectiles that you have to dodge raiden style = TF's Q
skills which deal damage based on distance target traveled over X time = old Taric stun.