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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:56 Zdrastochye wrote: Would any of you buy MBR if the tanks had 300 armor and 40 mr? HAH. Considering I'm probably playing kennen, the game is about to be over. | ||
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Brees
Marshall Islands3404 Posts
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Requizen
United States33802 Posts
Yeah, I'm sure there's mathcraft and what not, but out of personal experience, it will work from time to time. Who's going to build MR against an Ezreal if your team doesn't have a huge amount of AP? And with Trinity and your passive up for AS, Q proccing it, it'll get more than a few applications. Alright, maybe I'm numerically wrong, and yeah LW/AD items are great, but if something works, it just works. I wouldn't get it for standard tanky dps like Udyr or Trundle, but massive health pool tanks (looking at Cho), it's honestly not a bad choice. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:49 Slayer91 wrote: What about MBR on bruisers who are mostly going for squishies with maybe some health items (rod/ryalis, maybe Bveil)? That's the only people I'd get it on. Udyr, xin use it pretty well. It scales badly so I don't know why people build it on AD, but for bruisers it works pretty well. The only problem is it seems pretty expensive but it should do a lot more damage than wriggles+wits end for a similar price. The main problem is its less tanky and it takes a long time to complete. MBR vs. Wriggle's + Wit's End 30 AD 40% IAS 25 Armor 4% Opposing HP as Magic Damage vs. 23 AD 30 Armor 18% Lifesteal 40% IAS 30-50 MRes 42 Magic Damage Yea, I guess your comparison is fair. By the time people hit like, 2K HP, you'll be doing a fair bit more damage with a bloodrazor in exchange for losing a metric fuck ton of utility and defense =\. The comparison that always kills me for MBR is Triforce. If I want a single big-ticket damage item, Triforce just seems so much better and if it turns out I want more offense, it's easier to itemize after Triforce than MBR. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:01 Brees wrote: singed/tryn is an interesting matchup. very player skill dependent can go either way Agreed. To me its one of those matchups where whoever gets the farm advantage early is able to carry that through for a lane victory- basically whoever gets to wriggles/cata first wins. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:56 Zdrastochye wrote: Would any of you buy MBR if the tanks had 300 armor and 40 mr? HAH. no, I'd just tell my AP Carry to 1 shot their tanks. | ||
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Kyhron
United States945 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:05 Mogwai wrote: no, I'd just tell my AP Carry to 1 shot their tanks. What if your AP carry is doing crap cuz they have no farm/kills and have done nothing but fail? just some theorycrafting to your response | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
>.> Just sayin' And I was one of the first people to recommend bloodrazor on ezreal a looooong time ago but that was before the introduction of wriggles; with wriggles being an option the biggest reason to go down the path of bloodrazor is gone. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:05 Mogwai wrote: no, I'd just tell my AP Carry to 1 shot their tanks. what if your ap carry is actually building pdancer first? | ||
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Sabin010
United States1892 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:36 Two_DoWn wrote: No. Bloodrazor just sucks. Its horribly expensive, doesnt scale well with other items, and is EASILY replaced by a series of cheaper items that, when combined, are more effective than MBR. @ Sabin- Thing about MBR on Kog this way- would you EVER rush MBR on Graves. Or Cait. Or Ashe. No. So why the hell would you do it on kog, when he ALREADY does what you want MBR to do. I get it on Kogmaw cause im building malady after and will be getting a void staff if the tanks start stacking negatron cloaks. I mean ap casters hit hard with their spells so you buy items to synergize and make their spells hit harder. Tanky dps is naturally tanky so you build more tanky. Basically if there is a good quality on a champ you itemize to abuse it and make it better. I mean you could play Zilean and abuse your 600 attack range with built in slow and a PD, IE, BT, and LW build, but why do that when you can drop bombs for tons of AOE magic damage? | ||
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dnastyx
United States2707 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:06 Kyhron wrote: What if your AP carry is doing crap cuz they have no farm/kills and have done nothing but fail? just some theorycrafting to your response You are trying to point out the worst possible edge cases, when your original line of thought was that it was a good item to help Ez scale into late game. Do you see why this isn't helpful to your point? | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:02 Mogwai wrote: MBR vs. Wriggle's + Wit's End 30 AD 40% IAS 25 Armor 4% Opposing HP as Magic Damage vs. 23 AD 30 Armor 18% Lifesteal 40% IAS 30-50 MRes 42 Magic Damage Yea, I guess your comparison is fair. By the time people hit like, 2K HP, you'll be doing a fair bit more damage with a bloodrazor in exchange for losing a metric fuck ton of utility and defense =\. The comparison that always kills me for MBR is Triforce. If I want a single big-ticket damage item, Triforce just seems so much better and if it turns out I want more offense, it's easier to itemize after Triforce than MBR. Well, the general issue is that early game MBR does horrible damage anyway and the ward and lifesteal from wriggles are really really good. I'm talking later though. Lifesteal becomes less useful everyone is reaching max level and you may even have triforce. You can sell your wits end or wriggles for MBR instead of say, IE, and you're doing more damage to squishies and a hell of a lot more damage to bruisers especially say a GP who just wants to get warmogs then gets like atmas, triforce and IE. Also those AP carries with their rylais+rod of ages bullshit to keep them alive versus burst becomes less effective. I would never really get MBR before triforce unless the only thing I'm worried about is like said gangplank getting really fed. I think it's just a lategame DPS item for tanky dps which is why it almost never sees the light of day. I recently got it on xin when I had a lot of time between buying madreds and then got kills or towers or dragons or something and I had enough to buy recurve bow instead of wriggles and it only made sense to complete MBR over wriggles+wits. I felt like a squishy piece of shit but xins kinda like that anyway and straight rushing giants belt after should help. The loss of tankiness is noticeable in a long fight though without the lifesteal and MR. | ||
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Kyhron
United States945 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:10 dnastyx wrote: You are trying to point out the worst possible edge cases, when your original line of thought was that it was a good item to help Ez scale into late game. Do you see why this isn't helpful to your point? I usually dont get MBR on Ez unless the other team starts building alot of health into the 3k plus range of health. Obviously LW is a better choice but saying that MBR isnt good because of MR while ignoring the champs that get large amounts of health without getting MR or when someone gets an Atmogs and no MR item doesnt disprove it | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:13 Slayer91 wrote: Well, the general issue is that early game MBR does horrible damage anyway and the ward and lifesteal from wriggles are really really good. I'm talking later though. Lifesteal becomes less useful everyone is reaching max level and you may even have triforce. You can sell your wits end or wriggles for MBR instead of say, IE, and you're doing more damage to squishies and a hell of a lot more damage to bruisers especially say a GP who just wants to get warmogs then gets like atmas, triforce and IE. that isn't going to happen until like 50 mins, and in any case, junglers tend to either build 1 dmg item + wiggles and the rest straight tank, or all dmg. in the 1st case, wits is faster and easier to get and provides a defensive stat, on top of being incredibly cost-effective. On the other hand, if you're going the pure dmg route (yi, and shaco come to mind), then (as we've been over re: ez) typically bloodrazor isn't going to fit in as well as other dmg items. | ||
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
But yeah, I'm not trying to argue people should get MBR more I'm just saying it's in a weird niche of lategame tanky dps item whenever theres a situation where you can get away with 3 defense items. (mercs, triforce, mbr, triple defense items, say FoN, Warmogs, Randuins). That's not unreasonable since triforce mbr and mercs give all 3 defensive stats it's not unreasonable to get it. | ||
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Two_DoWn
United States13684 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:16 Kyhron wrote: I usually dont get MBR on Ez unless the other team starts building alot of health into the 3k plus range of health. Obviously LW is a better choice but saying that MBR isnt good because of MR while ignoring the champs that get large amounts of health without getting MR or when someone gets an Atmogs and no MR item doesnt disprove it No, it just makes it a shit argument because MBR procs on autos, something ez does not typically do a whole bunch. And before you say "Well if I get MBR I make sure to auto" mathematically you are better off buying crit and LW to go with your build. So basically every possible scenario you can concieve for getting a bloodrazor on EZ is mathematically incorrect. | ||
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barbsq
United States5348 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote: I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination | ||
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Ryuu314
United States12679 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:16 Kyhron wrote: I usually dont get MBR on Ez unless the other team starts building alot of health into the 3k plus range of health. Obviously LW is a better choice but saying that MBR isnt good because of MR while ignoring the champs that get large amounts of health without getting MR or when someone gets an Atmogs and no MR item doesnt disprove it who the fuck gets 3k health without any magic resist on a legit build? sure in edge cases/low elo bullshit where people will run AP chogath regularly you might see that, but honestly no one is going to get 3k hp and not build magic resist items. | ||
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Kyhron
United States945 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:24 Two_DoWn wrote: No, it just makes it a shit argument because MBR procs on autos, something ez does not typically do a whole bunch. And before you say "Well if I get MBR I make sure to auto" mathematically you are better off buying crit and LW to go with your build. So basically every possible scenario you can concieve for getting a bloodrazor on EZ is mathematically incorrect. you realize ez's q procs on hit effects right? Thus it also procs MBR. Ive used it and just watched chucks of health disappear because of Qs natural damage plus sheen proc plus MBR. Ive seen it work. I dont use it that often but theres times when the other team gets a large amount of health where it will be more beneficial to get a MBR then another AD item. In end lets just agree to disagree | ||
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ArC_man
United States2798 Posts
On November 10 2011 03:28 Kyhron wrote: you realize ez's q procs on hit effects right? Thus it also procs MBR. Ive used it and just watched chucks of health disappear because of Qs natural damage plus sheen proc plus MBR. Ive seen it work. I dont use it that often but theres times when the other team gets a large amount of health where it will be more beneficial to get a MBR then another AD item. In end lets just agree to disagree If you're going to bring up a heavily disputed point, you'd better have some damn good backing (for example some damage calculations) to try to get other people to believe you other than just saying "I've done it in a game or two and it seemed to work". | ||
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