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Want to rage about your latest loss? Use the QQ thread. If you whine in GD, you'll get warned. - Neo, 9:49 KST, Nov 9th |
On November 10 2011 03:25 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote:
I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination
"If 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him". Any bruiser can say that. If it's an AD carry, that is. If it's an AP carry with a stun you'll probably die if you tower dive. If it's another bruiser, even if you're lucky enough that he's not someone who rapes you you still won't be able to tower dive him since he'll be too tanky.
Yi is good at backdooring because he can kill towers fast and then run away, I don't buy into your trying to play it off as a legitimate strat against a coordinated team.
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By the time you finish Bloodrazor, the other team will likely have finished their Atmog's and is working towards a major MR item (usually FoN), or have some combination of Wit's End / Spirit Visage. Also, they are almost guaranteed to use Merc Threads + scaling MR blues. Your 0 spell pen + 15% archaic knowledge is going to make Bloodrazor hit for absolute shit.
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Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that q and sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
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On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc.
Like I said lets leave it at agreeing to disagree. Ill play my way you play yours and theres less arguing
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On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
Sheen proc does not scale with damage.
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On November 10 2011 03:34 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:25 barbsq wrote:On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote:
I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination "If 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him". Any bruiser can say that. If it's an AD carry, that is. If it's an AP carry with a stun you'll probably die if you tower dive. If it's another bruiser, even if you're lucky enough that he's not someone who rapes you you still won't be able to tower dive him since he'll be too tanky. Yi is good at backdooring because he can kill towers fast and then run away, I don't buy into your trying to play it off as a legitimate strat against a coordinated team.
"Glass cannon" Yi would be like going Wriggles->Ghostblade(->Triforce) which imo is a perfectly fine build.
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On November 10 2011 03:39 Requizen wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage. Sheen proc does not scale with damage.
He's talking about Ez's really good scaling to AD on his Q
Edit: Physical Damage: 35 / 55 / 75 / 95 / 115 (+1.0 per attack damage) (+0.2 per ability power)
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I was more responding to:
And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
Which isn't true.
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On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
Sheen proc only scales with levels.
What you're talking about is strictly AD/crit/armor pen scaling.
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On November 10 2011 03:28 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:24 Two_DoWn wrote:On November 10 2011 03:16 Kyhron wrote:On November 10 2011 03:10 dnastyx wrote:On November 10 2011 03:06 Kyhron wrote:On November 10 2011 03:05 Mogwai wrote:On November 10 2011 02:56 Zdrastochye wrote:
Would any of you buy MBR if the tanks had 300 armor and 40 mr?
HAH. no, I'd just tell my AP Carry to 1 shot their tanks. What if your AP carry is doing crap cuz they have no farm/kills and have done nothing but fail? just some theorycrafting to your response You are trying to point out the worst possible edge cases, when your original line of thought was that it was a good item to help Ez scale into late game. Do you see why this isn't helpful to your point? I usually dont get MBR on Ez unless the other team starts building alot of health into the 3k plus range of health. Obviously LW is a better choice but saying that MBR isnt good because of MR while ignoring the champs that get large amounts of health without getting MR or when someone gets an Atmogs and no MR item doesnt disprove it No, it just makes it a shit argument because MBR procs on autos, something ez does not typically do a whole bunch. And before you say "Well if I get MBR I make sure to auto" mathematically you are better off buying crit and LW to go with your build. So basically every possible scenario you can concieve for getting a bloodrazor on EZ is mathematically incorrect. you realize ez's q procs on hit effects right? Thus it also procs MBR. Ive used it and just watched chucks of health disappear because of Qs natural damage plus sheen proc plus MBR. Ive seen it work. I dont use it that often but theres times when the other team gets a large amount of health where it will be more beneficial to get a MBR then another AD item. In end lets just agree to disagree
3000 hp, 55 mres, super ideal situation for mbr, amirite? (55 mr is basically 30 base mr + scaling mr/lvl glyphs, thats it)
lets see, 4% of 3000 is 120, so 120 dmg eh? looking good so far
55 mres means 64.5% dmg multiplier..... uh oh, now we only do 77.4 dmg, thats less than bloodthirster, i.e, or cleaver.
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On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
Except that's actually wrong.
Sheen is 100% of your base AD (including the per lvl scaling), bonus AD doesn't add anything at all.
To improve your Sheen procs, get LW.
Wow so many people jumped on that at once...
On November 10 2011 03:42 barbsq wrote:
3000 hp, 55 mres, super ideal situation for mbr, amirite? (55 mr is basically 30 base mr + scaling mr/lvl glyphs, thats it)
lets see, 4% of 3000 is 120, so 120 dmg eh? looking good so far
55 mres means 64.5% dmg multiplier..... uh oh, now we only do 77.4 dmg, thats less than bloodthirster, i.e, or cleaver.
Gosh. If you do math on this, at least do it correctly. Amor applies to BT the same way MR applies to BR.
Also who types "i.e." instead of "IE"? Is that supposed to be funny because it already has a meaning?
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On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage.
To be fair Ez should be shooting that caster who still has 30 mr and is trying to move in to blow all their cds not the Galio with 200 MR and 2500 health who is about to taunt the whole team.
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On November 10 2011 03:44 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage. To be fair Ez should be shooting that caster who still has 30 mr and is trying to move in to blow all their cds not the Galio with 200 MR and 2500 health who is about to taunt the whole team.
In which case Bloodrazor is utter crap anyway, and your standard Triforce + damage items build is much better.
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On November 10 2011 03:34 Slayer91 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:25 barbsq wrote:On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote:
I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination "If 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him". Any bruiser can say that. If it's an AD carry, that is. If it's an AP carry with a stun you'll probably die if you tower dive. If it's another bruiser, even if you're lucky enough that he's not someone who rapes you you still won't be able to tower dive him since he'll be too tanky. Yi is good at backdooring because he can kill towers fast and then run away, I don't buy into your trying to play it off as a legitimate strat against a coordinated team.
split pushing is incredibly effective, even against coordinated teams., so i dont buy that 'it loses to coordination' bullshit. my team runs it all the time to quite a bit of success
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On November 10 2011 03:44 Sabin010 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:36 Two_DoWn wrote:
Bloodrazor proc is 4%. That means in order to take 1 extra bar of health the opponent needs to have 2500 health- and thats with no mr. To take 2 bars it takes 5000 health. And NO ONE gets 5000 health. So basically what you are seeing is the ad reflected in the sheen and scaling, NOT the madreds proc. And to make that sheen proc bigger, what do you need? Thats right, damage. To be fair Ez should be shooting that caster who still has 30 mr and is trying to move in to blow all their cds not the Galio with 200 MR and 2500 health who is about to taunt the whole team.
In fact Ezreal will most likely not be able to shoot that caster because there will be a fat tanky DPS in his face. And if he tries to move around that guy, he will eat a random CC and get bursted down by the caster + tanky DPS.
Of course Ez can sneak a couple of Qs past the tanky DPS sometimes, but the tanky DPS will be his target for the majority of the time.
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On November 10 2011 03:44 barbsq wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:34 Slayer91 wrote:On November 10 2011 03:25 barbsq wrote:On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote:
I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination "If 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him". Any bruiser can say that. If it's an AD carry, that is. If it's an AP carry with a stun you'll probably die if you tower dive. If it's another bruiser, even if you're lucky enough that he's not someone who rapes you you still won't be able to tower dive him since he'll be too tanky. Yi is good at backdooring because he can kill towers fast and then run away, I don't buy into your trying to play it off as a legitimate strat against a coordinated team. split pushing is incredibly effective, even against coordinated teams., so i dont buy that 'it loses to coordination' bullshit. my team runs it all the time to quite a bit of success
CLG split pushes a lot even at high tier tournament games. They don't Master Yi split push but they will frequently split push. Other teams do it as well but I think CLG has had the most success with it. Just from what I've seen, split pushing is pretty strong at all levels of play.
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On November 10 2011 03:40 ArC_man wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 03:34 Slayer91 wrote:On November 10 2011 03:25 barbsq wrote:On November 10 2011 03:22 Slayer91 wrote:
I dunno, I only bought yi a couple weeks ago but whenever I play him I just go like SUPER FARM JUNGLE IN 1 Q and have decent ganks if I save my Q for flash, then I go wriggles-->warmogs atmas or wriggles-->avarice-->warmogs atmas. Yi has such fucking good steriods I have no idea why people cling on to the low elo bullshit of being glass cannon melee. it depends on your overall goal, atmogs is a team-fight oriented build, glass cannon is basically the rest of my team holds them 4v5 under tower while i split push, and if 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him, and if 2 ppl come, i can run away while my team crushes them 4v3. u can do the same thing with shaco, atmogs is acceptable if you want to be in teamfights making things happen (tho this isn't common). shaco also has a bit better kit for assassination "If 1 person comes to stop me, i can kill him". Any bruiser can say that. If it's an AD carry, that is. If it's an AP carry with a stun you'll probably die if you tower dive. If it's another bruiser, even if you're lucky enough that he's not someone who rapes you you still won't be able to tower dive him since he'll be too tanky. Yi is good at backdooring because he can kill towers fast and then run away, I don't buy into your trying to play it off as a legitimate strat against a coordinated team. "Glass cannon" Yi would be like going Wriggles->Ghostblade(->Triforce) which imo is a perfectly fine build.
I never see any sucessful Yi players. All the yi players I do see go wriggles/berserkers (seriously lol)/ghostblade-->more damage shit like triforce, ie etc).
I don't understand your post. You just explained to me your version of glass cannon yi and then told me its fine without any justification. You are putting yourself in the position to be attacked by every member their team in teamfights as a melee if you want to do damage. Every other sustained damage melee in the game except tryndamere (who has his ultimate) builds lots of tank items due to this. What makes yi different? Why do you insist on building so much damage so fast when in terms of 1v1 potential it doesn't help that much because you rape ad carries with either tank items or damage items and ap carries will 1 combo you with squishy builds. You end up doing MORE damage when you have enough survivability to go for squishies without worrying about getting instant killed.
And i'm not saying split pushing isn't effective. I'm saying split pushing with that yi build isn't all that amazing since most bruisers can stop you pushing because hybrid builds are way more efficient for 1v1ing than pure damage builds and generally all you need to do it hold tower. Being squishy and having lots of damage is great for killing towers before solo queue teams can react but I'm saying I'd prefer to be tankier that the risk of getting 1 combo'd and giving free baron is much less. A typical solo top with teleport is actually generally more effective at split pushing because he's insanely hard to kill but can also TP to fights whereas smite flash yi can't really do that.
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Split pushing instantly forces the other team to make a decision (group up push 5v4, attempt to kill the split pusher, or send 1 person to stop the split pusher). Most teams either make the wrong decision, or make the right decision but make it too slow.
If you watch some of Dignitas vs CLG games, Dignitas can almost read a split push attempt ahead of time and the second someone in CLG (hotshot or SV) pops up in a sidelane they'll instantly burn down middle as 5. If you think about it as a race, then the 2 or 3 seconds of indecisiveness will often make the difference between their split push being an overall gain or loss,
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United States47024 Posts
On November 10 2011 02:58 Kyhron wrote:Show nested quote +On November 10 2011 02:52 Two_DoWn wrote:On November 10 2011 02:44 Kyhron wrote:On November 10 2011 02:39 Two_DoWn wrote:On November 10 2011 02:37 Kyhron wrote:On November 10 2011 02:35 barbsq wrote:
if you've already started going the AD route, mbr is shit. If mbr is your only (or primary) dmg item, then its great. IIrc its like the single greatest dps item, but it has shit scaling with all the other dps items. If you've already got i.e., you're 100% better off dmg wise getting zeal and lw than getting bloodrazor. we were talking about it on Ezreal after say BT boots2 and sheen/tf in the case the other team starts getting alot of health late game when Ez supposidly falls off hard Then you are either of getting more bts, an IE, or even a bc, then combining it with a LW. I dunno why youd get an IE on Ez. I could see more BTs or a BC but not an IE. From my playing and trying out different builds ive noticed crit is rather meh on EZ. obviously a LW is necessary on any ad IE on ez depends on how much you can afford to throw autos around. Its STILL a better item than MBR in every case, simply because it actually scales with your other items. EDIT- Holy shit- first time in like 4 weeks Smash and I are actually AGREEING on something. Id honestly rather get a BT or a defensive item like a banshees then IE. Its just something i dont like building on ez,....to me its more of a pure auto attacker item then someone that deals a good amount of his damage with a very low cd ability
Wait, wait, wait, slow the fuck down here.
So an item that spends 830 gold on a crit cloak is a "pure autoattacker item"...but MBR, which spends 1050 on a Recurve Bow ISN'T? Something doesn't add up in your logic here.
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How true is true damage? Are true damage spells affected at all by things like Exhaust, Urgot's passive, Poppy's passive, Alistar ultimate, stacked Leviathan, etc?
And on the topic of Poppy's passive, is it calculated before or after resistances?
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EPT
