|
fuck the meta its draining all the fun out of this game
here's one example. AP Casters are broken.
In DotA, Magic Damage Casters were limited by 3 primary things:
a) damage did not scale. Obviously, this made them weaker late game.
b) high mana costs made it difficult to spam abilities recklessly.
c) cooldowns were often long, unless you bought a certain item (that had an even longer cooldown)
In LoL, Casters have scaling damage, cheap access to mana (when spells are very low mana as it is) and just in case that wasn't enough they boosted passive mana regen so people could have more fun. I mean you say its "anti-fun" to have mana burn in the game, but it's just as "anti-fun" for me to have malzahar or annie burst me down from 100 to 0 instantly. And to do it every x seconds. I mean they already have passive mana abilities (malz e, annie q) there's no need to make it worse.
Scaling damage is fine. However, when virtually every single AP caster is buying the same damn item (ryze and anivia are exceptions, but then again they don't need AP to do damage) and not diversifying from that item, you have a problem on your hands.
Compare an AD carry for example. They get a BF sword, they pick between black cleaver (for cheapness and armor reduction), bloodthirster (for sustainability and high ad ratio abilities) and infnity edge (for pure damage). There is no AD carry equivalent to rabadon's deathcap.
if you made it so that scaling damage increased mana costs by a certain amount, people might actually have incentives to build something other than deathpoop.
and don't even get me started on how silly support champions are
|
Meh, I never noticed the Brand 50 range nerf, Lee's won't be huge I think.
|
On October 01 2011 11:20 UniversalSnip wrote:
maokai, malphite, and cho all scale in basically every direction. You can build whatever the fuck you want on them, it's the quantity of gold you spend and not the quality. Just look at what your team needs.
That's pretty much my problem. I don't see WHY I would want Gunblade/Triforce/RoA first. I kinda end up going Triforce first all day and it works, but I doubt it's the best choice in 100% of games.
|
On October 01 2011 12:03 WaveofShadow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 11:58 ArC_man wrote:
I like the slight number tweaks for these champs, I don't feel like any of the champs were that overpowered anyways so it's good that Riot didn't try to overdo the nerfs.
I also like the fact that they took into account the upcoming tournaments so they didn't want to overly fuck the meta. It shows that they're caring more about the competitive aspect. Don't they usually revert to an older patch for major tournaments anyway? I don't understand why the change of heart in that respect now.
Yea they usually do... but in the video he specifically said they didn't want to make big changes since there were upcoming tournaments (so I assume upcoming tournaments will be on this patch).
|
On October 01 2011 12:10 Caller wrote:
In LoL, Casters have scaling damage, cheap access to mana (when spells are very low mana as it is) and just in case that wasn't enough they boosted passive mana regen so people could have more fun.
This is a good thing. Gameplay is very stale when you can rarely use spells or constantly run out of mana.
But it's just as "anti-fun" for me to have malzahar or annie burst me down from 100 to 0 instantly. And to do it every x seconds. I mean they already have passive mana abilities (malz e, annie q) there's no need to make it worse.
Yes, being able to insta-gib someone should not be possible like it is. However, that's completely unrelated to mana concerns.
However, when virtually every single AP caster is buying the same damn item (ryze and anivia are exceptions, but then again they don't need AP to do damage) and not diversifying from that item, you have a problem on your hands.
This is again not an issue. Every archetype buys the same items. Ranged ADs almost all buy BT/IE/LW/PD, tanks largely buy the same items (given identical enemy teams), and bruisers largely buy the same items (atmogs, triforce, ga, etc). The more similar your item paths are, the easier it is to deal with balance, since there's less variability to account for.
There is no AD carry equivalent to rabadon's deathcap.
You don't need one; AD's get attack speed and crit. Apples and oranges.
if you made it so that scaling damage increased mana costs by a certain amount, people might actually have incentives to build something other than deathpoop.
Strongly anti-fun mechanic.
Your only meaningful issue here is that some casters can nuke 100-0 and it's not fun. This is true. How do you fix it? Shorter cds with cheaper spells, but less damage. Consider how Ryze and Cass play compared to Annie or Brand. Those first two are constantly moving around and kiting with spells, but you're not going to get 100-0'd in a single combo. The latter two can both 100-0 someone with just a flash stun.
|
On October 01 2011 10:56 Craton wrote:Show nested quote +On October 01 2011 09:28 StuffedTurkey wrote:On October 01 2011 05:19 JackDino wrote:
IP seems to be affected by score points too, gogo collect them healthpacks for more IP.
Also just realized I haven't seen a single TF since shortly after the global nerf. I have a 64 IP game that I scored 1090 points and a 71 IP game that I got 1840 points....doesn't seem like a heavy correlation 'Cause correlation isn't causation. Longer games give more IP. Longer games also have higher scores. IP gains aren't dependent on score.
The game lengths weren't terribly different
Edit: also my score is much lower in one cause i fed early game vs the other one i got fed hard and capped a lot
|
United States47024 Posts
On October 01 2011 12:10 Caller wrote:
fuck the meta its draining all the fun out of this game
here's one example. AP Casters are broken.
In DotA, Magic Damage Casters were limited by 3 primary things:
a) damage did not scale. Obviously, this made them weaker late game.
b) high mana costs made it difficult to spam abilities recklessly.
c) cooldowns were often long, unless you bought a certain item (that had an even longer cooldown)
In LoL, Casters have scaling damage, cheap access to mana (when spells are very low mana as it is) and just in case that wasn't enough they boosted passive mana regen so people could have more fun. I mean you say its "anti-fun" to have mana burn in the game, but it's just as "anti-fun" for me to have malzahar or annie burst me down from 100 to 0 instantly. And to do it every x seconds. I mean they already have passive mana abilities (malz e, annie q) there's no need to make it worse.
Scaling damage is fine. However, when virtually every single AP caster is buying the same damn item (ryze and anivia are exceptions, but then again they don't need AP to do damage) and not diversifying from that item, you have a problem on your hands.
Compare an AD carry for example. They get a BF sword, they pick between black cleaver (for cheapness and armor reduction), bloodthirster (for sustainability and high ad ratio abilities) and infnity edge (for pure damage). There is no AD carry equivalent to rabadon's deathcap.
if you made it so that scaling damage increased mana costs by a certain amount, people might actually have incentives to build something other than deathpoop.
and don't even get me started on how silly support champions are
Casters in LoL have scaling damage because Riot felt it was better to give them scaling damage instead of scaling utility.
So they buy Rod of Ages and Deathcap instead of Mekansm, Pipe, Sheepstick, and Force Staff.
I don't see how having scaling damage is more broken than scaling utility, though I do think it makes for more stale gameplay.
|
I think what he's saying is that casters really just need 1 item to be able to 100-0 you which isnt even that hard to get and that's deathcap. If you farm or get enough kills you can get it very quickly. Caster scaling is just ridiculously strong compared to AD. Why do constant dmg when you can instantly change a fight by 100 to 0 someone in 3 seconds.
|
maybe because casters have to deal with cooldowns?
but I do concur that deathcap is a stupid item.
|
basically if you want to play AP you build deathcap, pretty much 0 exceptions
Since AP damage is mostly burst and there are two ways to increase burst, one of which has poor itemization comparatively (mpen), the more AP you can get the better. Giving casters an item that gives nothing but AP, while boosting the amount of AP they get from other sources, is just silly.
Pre-split, a reasonable amount of Zhonya's cost was the mana and active. Most casters bought RoA for its efficiency and because it built out of cata. Casters were less glass-cannony. One good Tibbers still won fights, but it didn't win them by killing everything that wasn't a tank.
|
i have no issues with ap casters right now
mr blues + negatron too fun for bruisers
and qss for ad carrys :>
i think casters are properly balanced atm
supports need a little work but thats about it
really liking where the game is at
|
On October 01 2011 12:10 Caller wrote:
fuck the meta its draining all the fun out of this game
here's one example. AP Casters are broken.
In DotA, Magic Damage Casters were limited by 3 primary things:
a) damage did not scale. Obviously, this made them weaker late game.
b) high mana costs made it difficult to spam abilities recklessly.
c) cooldowns were often long, unless you bought a certain item (that had an even longer cooldown)
In LoL, Casters have scaling damage, cheap access to mana (when spells are very low mana as it is) and just in case that wasn't enough they boosted passive mana regen so people could have more fun. I mean you say its "anti-fun" to have mana burn in the game, but it's just as "anti-fun" for me to have malzahar or annie burst me down from 100 to 0 instantly. And to do it every x seconds. I mean they already have passive mana abilities (malz e, annie q) there's no need to make it worse.
Scaling damage is fine. However, when virtually every single AP caster is buying the same damn item (ryze and anivia are exceptions, but then again they don't need AP to do damage) and not diversifying from that item, you have a problem on your hands.
Compare an AD carry for example. They get a BF sword, they pick between black cleaver (for cheapness and armor reduction), bloodthirster (for sustainability and high ad ratio abilities) and infnity edge (for pure damage). There is no AD carry equivalent to rabadon's deathcap.
if you made it so that scaling damage increased mana costs by a certain amount, people might actually have incentives to build something other than deathpoop.
and don't even get me started on how silly support champions are
Well when were on comparing dota to lol casters then it should be menioned that dota casters allready have an inbuilt deathcap because they instagib everything that is not bulky on sometimes only 1 spell rotation depending on the champion. Not to mention that most of the positions will not have the gold to buy any kind of defense item that is more than the equivalent of stacking dorans-stuff anyways. So in the dota earlygame most nukers outright kill you in seconds without any items and when you have enough EHP to survive that, then they get sheepsticks to disable you completely for about 4s (yeah not that 1.5s shit you get in lol) and pushsticks so if you look at them in the false moment then they instantly drag you into a gangbang.
Actually there isn't even a role in dota that is specificly called caster/mage. But w/e.
That said, I dont like deathcap either, but that has nothing to with ap carries. I dont like that its the only item to rush. Some of the ap carries do well starting RoA, but dc rush is almost never wrong.
This problem could be solved easily: Just lower the base AP significantly and increase the %scaling, so DC has the same effect after you have about 3-4 major AP items.
What I actually would love the most is if they'd remove it completely and rebalance the existing AP items or the champions' scalings.
|
Chat service been down for like 2 hours for me, isolated problem or other people having issues?
|
I'm having issues joining games
|
TL too heavy for jungle Twitch
|
On October 01 2011 14:39 Tooplark wrote:
TL too heavy for jungle Twitch
Rug too heavy for my pro tank nid ;P
|
I don't see how lowering Radiance's cooldown to three times what it was before the Taric changes recaptures the feel of the old ultimate. I remain a stick in the mud.
|
I wish people understood that if you initiate a fight with the enemy's tank in the front, then the damage dealers have no choice but to focus the tank while their carries are covered in the back.
"hurr durr why u guys focus tank"
|
solotop jewplank -> auraplank OP
philo hog avarice aegis starks shurelyas soulshroud/wota zz
shoot gun, drop ulti, exhaust guy on your carry, shurelya every1, win
|
On October 01 2011 16:11 LoLAdriankat wrote:
I wish people understood that if you initiate a fight with the enemy's tank in the front, then the damage dealers have no choice but to focus the tank while their carries are covered in the back.
"hurr durr why u guys focus tank"
Difference between your ranged AD hitting the tank and a caster blowing multiple spells on a tank. I agree with you to some extent, it gets annoying when teammates rage at you for "focusing the tank." But it really pisses me off when our AP carry uses all or most of their spells on the tank and then we get wrecked because they can't insta-gib the enemy carries who can now clean up. But then again that's why I like playing AD carries, it's fun to just chip away at everyone.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
