On October 01 2011 09:30 Two_DoWn wrote: WW should be every new players first purchase and first jungle champ. Hell, riot should give away ww for free. The amount of knowledge that you pick up by learning how to jungle makes you an infinitely better player. Oh and go ww simply because his jungle style is a lot more convertible to other jungles.
One thing that is great about ww for learning is he can gank and then go right back to farming jungle because of his Q and passive. Failed ganks are much more forgiving
On October 01 2011 09:30 Two_DoWn wrote: WW should be every new players first purchase and first jungle champ. Hell, riot should give away ww for free. The amount of knowledge that you pick up by learning how to jungle makes you an infinitely better player. Oh and go ww simply because his jungle style is a lot more convertible to other jungles.
WW was the first champion i bought, i had always wanted to try out jungling when i was new and WW was a perfect champ for it. Funny thing was that i struggled to do dual golems and never got past wraiths without recall until i realized i should be using pots while fighting the creeps (for some reason i had a idea in my head that pot healed less when in combat LOL).
Ya I remember jungling as Warwick when I first started too. Jungling before 30 with any champion other than warwick and without runes can be really difficult. For example people won't pull correctly or won't help you and do damage to golem even if you ask them to. After that they'll make fun of you if you die. I also thought when I first played that pots got canceled by taking damage lol.
On October 01 2011 10:04 Arthemesia wrote: Ya I remember jungling as Warwick when I first started too. Jungling before 30 with any champion other than warwick and without runes can be really difficult. For example people won't pull correctly or won't help you and do damage to golem even if you ask them to. After that they'll make fun of you if you die. I also thought when I first played that pots got canceled by taking damage lol.
Eh, fiddle is a really easy jungler too. Though he does need some runes. Maybe #2 easiest.
On the topic of junglers, today I saw for the first time in action why lvl 2 ganks can suck so incredibly hard.
Was on the right side and got lvl 2 ganked top (Jarman after blue), he didn't even get flash cause I smelled it. Our Udyr is happy and takes Wraith, Gols, his own jungle and ends lvl 4-5 with Jarman still 2. Victory!
DEAR TL I NEED HALPS (actually if just 5hitcombo would roll in, he could prolly answer this stuff pretty well)
Imo there are 2 champs in this game who, despite having only AP ratios, favor going "AD" in most scenarios. Those are Maokai and Cho Gath. (some others like e.g. Skarner might be debatable, but since I play those two the most I'd like to keep it to them for now).
My "problem" is that so much shit works fine on those two, no matter what the fuck I do. Examples are...
Cho Gath: -Triforce -> Wits End -> Tank -RoA -> Triforce -> Atmas -Gunblade -> Tank
1) What (red) runes should I use on those? My tendency is MPen, since they are casters early on and start autoattacking later. The argument for ArPen would be, that I frequently run 15% from offense on those two and thefor have some "free Mpen", but no ArPen at all. Which of those arguments makes more sense?
2) WHAT THE FUCK SHOULD I BASE MY CORE BUILD ON? Both need some kind of manasource which ends up being RoA (only catalyst would be pretty stupid imoimo), Philo or, possibly, even an early Sheen. I used to think RoA is best when you need to be tanky soon, but stuff like Philo -> Warmogs or Philo -> Triforce -> Tank ends up similarly tanky pretty soon.
Obv an early Sheen makes sense when you think you can beat the crap out of the enemy in and lane and plan on triforce anyway.
3) WHAT THE FUCK SHOULD I BASE MY OVERALL BUILD ON? When do I want Triforce? When Gunblade? When Atmogs? They just ALL do similarly well for me, I just don't have an idea yet when to use which to maximize their respective effectivity.
My main problem goes like this: On any melee tanky dps, you build as much damage as you can, while building as much defense as you need to be in there and "slug it out". However the same kind of "offensive defense" is offered by RoA, Triforce and Atmogs. RoA/Triforce even kick in at a very similar time.
Literally the ONLY thing I'm pretty damn sure about is that you need another damage item when you built RoA. Then again, on those two RoA is so fucking stupid effective that it would be stupid to not build it. However, it doesn't have the OOOMPH Triforce has and not the LOL IMA STAND HERE AND BE AN IMMOBILE OBJECT Warmogs has.
Halp. And no, when I talk about warmogs I mean Maokai, not Cho. =P
Edit: On Cho the question is kinda "When Gunblade/Triforce/RoA as first big item?" On Maokai it is "When Atmogs, when Triforce first, when RoA?"
ok wtf is this shit the point like moved n shit and stayed that way for the rest of the game, giving them an unfair advantage
edit: dear mr germany i would argue that i would rather have ap mao and cho. i would also include ad alistar in ur list of "champs which u can build anything u want on becase tehy r stupid cunts"
I've been playing a bit of Maokai lately. It's mostly jungle Maokai so here's what I use:
Reds: Arpen Yellows: Flat Armor Blues: 3x Flat AP, 6x Mres per lvl Quints: Flat AP
Start with Boots+3pot. Stack 3 saplings at wolves starting at 1:04~1:05. Once wolves spawn, hit big wolf, throw another sapling, hit big wolf 1-2 times and camp should be clear. Then get a good leash at blue, preferably with a good amount of help, then proceed to clear everything.
My build is generally Cata->RoA, Mercs/Sorcs. Then I tend to grab Sheen then build Glacial and Abyssal. Finish Frozen Heart, Triforce, and/or Deathcap as necessary.
The reason why I like AP on Mao is because his ratios are pretty good. His Q only has .4 ratio, but it's on a super low cd and is extremely spammable. His W has .8 ratio and his ult has .5 ratio which is decent, but the AP is mostly great for his E, which has 1.0 ratio and is amazing poke. I get RoA cause all the stats are great for Mao and the HP really helps to power his passive. The resists are 'cause in teamfights, your passive is up like...every other auto attack, which means you're healing for massive amounts so it's kinda like why you wanna tend to build armor/mres on WW and Irelia over raw HP.
No point for Warmogs (Force of Atmogs) when Mao is already really unmovable. Triforce is sick cause all the stuff it gives is great. You have pretty high base AD and you spam Q every 3 seconds so proc is great. slow is very useful in general and the stats are good all-round stuff. Deathcap is a nice item cause it really increases your burst and shit but is super expensive so I never really am able to get it unless I'm super fed.
On October 01 2011 10:27 r.Evo wrote: Cho Gath: -Triforce -> Wits End -> Tank -RoA -> Triforce -> Atmas -Gunblade -> Tank
Why would you get Triforce on Cho? His CDs are comparatively long, so you don't get a whole lot out of the proc.
Also: Double gp5->Glacial->Wits/FHeart/FoN in whatever order feels suitable. Cho gets natural HP from Feast, so he can afford to skimp on HP sources.
On October 01 2011 10:41 Ryuu314 wrote: I've been playing a bit of Maokai lately. It's mostly jungle Maokai so here's what I use:
Reds: Arpen Yellows: Flat Armor Blues: 3x Flat AP, 6x Mres per lvl Quints: Flat AP
Start with Boots+3pot. Stack 3 saplings at wolves starting at 1:04~1:05. Once wolves spawn, hit big wolf, throw another sapling, hit big wolf 1-2 times and camp should be clear. Then get a good leash at blue, preferably with a good amount of help, then proceed to clear everything.
My build is generally Cata->RoA, Mercs/Sorcs. Then I tend to grab Sheen then build Glacial and Abyssal. Finish Frozen Heart, Triforce, and/or Deathcap as necessary.
The reason why I like AP on Mao is because his ratios are pretty good. His Q only has .4 ratio, but it's on a super low cd and is extremely spammable. His W has .8 ratio and his ult has .5 ratio which is decent, but the AP is mostly great for his E, which has 1.0 ratio and is amazing poke. I get RoA cause all the stats are great for Mao and the HP really helps to power his passive. The resists are 'cause in teamfights, your passive is up like...every other auto attack, which means you're healing for massive amounts so it's kinda like why you wanna tend to build armor/mres on WW and Irelia over raw HP.
No point for Warmogs (Force of Atmogs) when Mao is already really unmovable. Triforce is sick cause all the stuff it gives is great. You have pretty high base AD and you spam Q every 3 seconds so proc is great. slow is very useful in general and the stats are good all-round stuff. Deathcap is a nice item cause it really increases your burst and shit but is super expensive so I never really am able to get it unless I'm super fed.
This is essentially identical to TheOddOne's setup. The only major points of note are that TOO prefers BVeil over Abyssal (I'd imagine it's team-dependent--I always feel somewhat apprehensive about getting Abyssal unless there are multiple other teammates that benefit from it), and that he gets Moonflair Spellblade at some point midgame as a Tenacity source.
Maokai's heal scales just as well from Mao's HP as from his resists, since it heals for a percentage of his maximum HP.
The reason you want resists over HP on other champs with heals is because their heals are flat heals (WW's is effectively a flat heal in this case in that it doesn't scale off of any of WW's stats) so they scale off of resists but not off of HP. That argument doesn't apply to Maokai.
(That said, if you're building RoA then resists are almost certainly better for defense anyway since you'll have a huge HP pool to begin with.)
On October 01 2011 05:19 JackDino wrote: IP seems to be affected by score points too, gogo collect them healthpacks for more IP. Also just realized I haven't seen a single TF since shortly after the global nerf.
I have a 64 IP game that I scored 1090 points and a 71 IP game that I got 1840 points....doesn't seem like a heavy correlation
'Cause correlation isn't causation. Longer games give more IP. Longer games also have higher scores. IP gains aren't dependent on score.
Regrowth -> Philo/Boots -> Catalyst -> Lich Bane -> Banshees or Wits (idr which order) -> then trolled and got a nashors cause we won the game by then. The other team was also AP heavy so yeah.
EPT
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nCFvc.jpg)
