EPT[Discussion] Picks and Counterpicks - Page 4
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If you are making an assertion, please use the format from the OP. Champion we're analyzing Counters ~ Reasons It'll be easier to read and we can tell the difference between someone making a statement and someone asking a question. Providing reasoning/evidence is important. It's borderline pointless to just say "X counters Y". You're not explaining your stance at all. What skills are you using, how are you laning/positioning yourself, etc? This thread should encourage all of you in LiquidParty to occasionally host some practice games and try out specific solo matchups. Then come back and report your findings. We can have players of various skill levels try out the matchups to get a better understanding. | ||
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zulu_nation8
China26351 Posts
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Slayer91
Ireland23335 Posts
Also you can dodge EQ with your own Q. Yorick doesn't hard counter irelia you just max hiten style you noob. Sure you won't get full cs but he will run out of mana trying to kill you even with tears. Get philo+more pots on your first back. When he is oom you can just start raping him before he regens his mana back. Yorick has free farm while harassing but irelia is stronger later anyway. In fact the answer to any "X counters irelia" is "irelia just maxes hiten style and regens everything at tower". The exception being Garen because garen is fucking OP against melees with no harass. :D Jarvan does fine against garen, irelia not so much because she needs to get in range and you just Q E and spam it non stop. | ||
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Prisoner
United States39 Posts
On July 26 2011 22:54 goldenkrnboi wrote: ^tbh, that just sounds like a combination of vlad vs. anybody and anybody vs. cait (which i guess you could call a hard counter, but i really wouldn't). i'm more interested if there's anybody that counters cait, because i can't really think of one. always a bitch to lane against one for me. Caitlyn Counter Maoki Ability to heal minor damage taken via passive Safe harassment from outside of her range via sapling Extreme burst punishment once she overextends even just a little | ||
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Prisoner
United States39 Posts
Wukong Gap closer with inital damage Strong single target attack couple with a few autos to take down shield and deal health damage Quick escape to avoid excessive damage. | ||
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Flakes
United States3125 Posts
On July 27 2011 02:03 gtrsrs wrote: i don't think that's true though. udyr will likely have a level advantage going into jax's ult, which by the way deteriorates extremely quickly. if udyr stuns jax after his first or second hit with bear, and then turns around and walks away, jax is going to either (a)use leapstrike and precious mana to close the distance just to ult-hit a turtle-stanced udyr, or (b)lose his ult. if udyr is far enough ahead (possible, but not super likely if he stops for wriggles on the way to real items) then he's just going to stand and fight jax and crush him. yes, jax is the 1v1 king, but udyr is ALSO the 1v1 king and kicks in on his first hit, not his 10th. toss in the fact that udyr will likely run exhaust, and jax will likely run ignite, and i *still* don't see jax winning this at level 6+ Jax can win melee-sustain lanes (Udyr, Jarman, Irelia, Xin) by ranking up empower past 1, or even maxing it while leaving leap strike at 1, as auto-attack+empower for an instant second hit is a hefty burst for only 20(!) mana, plus benefits from the AD runes that all Jaxs have. It doesn't get much more efficient than that, unless you're level 6 and you hit a creep first, then run/jump to udyr, auto+empower for the third ult hit. Leveling up empower makes Jax more vulnerable to ganks, however I think that with the nerf to leapstrike base damage, early empower is the way to win some lanes. Not enough to beat yorick pre-patch, haven't tried vs. him post-patch. | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 27 2011 18:59 zulu_nation8 wrote: Nothing really hard counters Irelia except maybe Yorick, or I just don't know how to lane vs Yorick. Only played that matchup once, and yes, Yorick harrassed me really hard from lvl 1-3 or so. However, after I got lvl 6 and my philo, I was able to clearly outharrass Yorick and pick up 2 kills on him as well, so I'm not sure if he beats Irelia all the way. If he attacks with just one ghoul, you can attack it and the W procs should outheal the damage it deals On July 27 2011 20:38 Prisoner wrote: Mordekasier Wukong Gap closer with inital damage Strong single target attack couple with a few autos to take down shield and deal health damage Quick escape to avoid excessive damage. Can't help but disagree, Wukong shouldn't be able to clear the shield if Morde plays it out correctly, and is going to take a lot of damage from Mordekaisers skills whenever he gets close. Wukong also has 0 natural sustainability. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 27 2011 20:50 Flakes wrote: Jax can win melee-sustain lanes (Udyr, Jarman, Irelia, Xin) by ranking up empower past 1, or even maxing it while leaving leap strike at 1, as auto-attack+empower for an instant second hit is a hefty burst for only 20(!) mana, plus benefits from the AD runes that all Jaxs have. It doesn't get much more efficient than that, unless you're level 6 and you hit a creep first, then run/jump to udyr, auto+empower for the third ult hit. Leveling up empower makes Jax more vulnerable to ganks, however I think that with the nerf to leapstrike base damage, early empower is the way to win some lanes. Not enough to beat yorick pre-patch, haven't tried vs. him post-patch. how do you plan on landing the second (or even first) hit without leapstrike though? and if you don't level leapstrike then it's CD is 13s. that's like 4 turtle stances for udyr to regen through | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On July 27 2011 16:05 RetZ wrote: I can't agree with this, as long as you start doran's shield or cloth+5pot and max W first you'll either beat or be able to easily farm vs jarvan. Also, turning W on doesn't turn off the healing. Yes, Hiten Style is a passive+active ability. Activating true damage gives you no healing for those attacks. Passive: Health restoration per attack. Active: True damage on attack. I guess you could consider it more of a soft counter than a hard counter, but Irelia simply can't trade hits with Jarvan since his EQ+autoattack combo will proc his % of current hp passive plus reduce Irelias armor for that attack. If irelia opens cloth+5, that's an excess amount of money dropped on potions for a super-sustainable laner, where you've opened regrowth and can build that into philo which is immediately useful for you. Essentially you've put her behind in itemization since opening cloth does not build into something useful to her past the initial few levels. After you've taken lane dominance through trading hits, you can out last hit her with jarvan's beautiful attack animation and proceed to win the lane.... | ||
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Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
On July 27 2011 22:37 HyperionDreamer wrote: Yes, Hiten Style is a passive+active ability. Activating true damage gives you no healing for those attacks. Passive: Health restoration per attack. Active: True damage on attack. You do heal even when the ability is active. Insert comment about actually trying it before you attempt to correct someone. | ||
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HyperionDreamer
Canada1528 Posts
On July 27 2011 22:40 Shikyo wrote: You do heal even when the ability is active. Insert comment about actually trying it before you attempt to correct someone. I've played a hundred plus games with irelia, and I've never noticed the healing getting applied on true damage attacks. Strange, does that happen for every passive/active ability in the whole game? Even stipulating that healing does apply on true damage, I still don't see irelia being able to trade combos with Jarvan. An EW combo only stuns for 1 second at level 1, and also costs 90 or 100 mana IIRC, which is one third of her mana pool at early levels. One second of stun is only enough for one autoattack which will apply true damage, and irelia loses the damage trade. | ||
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gtrsrs
United States9109 Posts
On July 27 2011 23:37 HyperionDreamer wrote: I've played a hundred plus games with irelia, and I've never noticed the healing getting applied on true damage attacks. Strange, does that happen for every passive/active ability in the whole game? no, it doesn't many skills turn off the passive when the active is activated just check the tooltip to see which do what (like xin's passive which used to go down when the active was on cooldown, etc) | ||
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cascades
Singapore6122 Posts
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
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Prisoner
United States39 Posts
On July 27 2011 21:12 Shikyo wrote: Can't help but disagree, Wukong shouldn't be able to clear the shield if Morde plays it out correctly, and is going to take a lot of damage from Mordekaisers skills whenever he gets close. Wukong also has 0 natural sustainability. Key to beating morde in lane is the ability to constantly harrass, health pots take care of wukongs lack of sustainability early game. Repeated E,Q,W combo attacks occur so quickly that there is little time to react to them, morde may get of one of his attacks if he is lucky and his auto attack animation is painfully slow. Wukongs strength is his speed. Granted I only played against 2 mordes last night but I was surprised at his ability to push morde around. | ||
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Juicyfruit
Canada5484 Posts
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Yttrasil
Sweden651 Posts
On July 27 2011 05:32 unsoundlogic wrote: Rumble: Hard countered by: Maokai. His passive negates any harass you attempt and he can harass you back freely while shrugging off any damage with the passive. The best you can really do is wait til you see his passive is up and spam skills until he hits something. Not true imho, he is soft countered if anything if that tbh, meaning if played well they both will survive but rumble won't get killed if played ok. He's annoying to play vs but rumble can still gank you at certain times. So here is my experience instead. Rumble Hard countered by: Brand. His dmg and stun makes it impossible for you to gank or chase him if he's good, you can never engage and do any good damage while he can stun and zone you however much he wants if played well. Possibly also Garen though I cannot really explain why. Soft countered by: Meaning you cannot kill them whatever they do almost and although they might not be able to kill you they can farm freely and pretty much ignore you. Lanewick, nothing to do vs that lifesteal Udyr, shield and lifesteal There are some other chars that almost falls into this category as well but they are nothing special really, like morde, cho-gath etc and nocturne, basically characters with shields and life steal. | ||
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Sponkz
Denmark4564 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:35 Yttrasil wrote: Possibly also Garen though I cannot really explain why. Garen is a hard counter to everything but Jarvan, we all know that. | ||
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Prisoner
United States39 Posts
Soft countered by: Meaning you cannot kill them whatever they do almost and although they might not be able to kill you they can farm freely and pretty much ignore you. Lanewick, nothing to do vs that lifesteal Udyr, shield and lifesteal There are some other chars that almost falls into this category as well but they are nothing special really, like morde, cho-gath etc and nocturne, basically characters with shields and life steal. Rumble Excels at handling sustain characters I have virtually no problem with all those you listed. His flame spitter is near constant damage on them and your W allows for quick escapes while its on cooldown. If they attack E and W out then return with Q. I find sustains the easiest to push around on rumble and collect kills from. I will agree on garen he hard counters me and I can't really explain why. If you play a safe game I can survive but severely under farmed. | ||
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Prisoner
United States39 Posts
On July 28 2011 01:58 Sponkz wrote: Garen is a hard counter to everything but Jarvan, we all know that. Is Jarvan the best counter for him can you list some more? I have had hella problems laning against him lately. Or at least explain how to counter him with Jarvan. | ||
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Mogwai
United States13274 Posts
In theory Teemo should eat Garen up, but I honestly haven't had to lane vs. Garen very much recently. | ||
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