EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 444
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NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5801 Posts
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5801 Posts
On June 04 2023 07:58 JimmiC wrote: Propaganda works. They're readers of Meduza, an opposition news site, with a clear anti-Putin and anti-war profile from day one. | ||
KwarK
United States43934 Posts
On June 04 2023 08:03 maybenexttime wrote: They're readers of Meduza, an opposition news site, with a clear anti-Putin and anti-war profile from day one. But they’re exposed to other Russian language media presumably. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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maybenexttime
Poland5801 Posts
On June 04 2023 08:20 KwarK wrote: But they’re exposed to other Russian language media presumably. So they seek out independent Russian media like Meduza because they don't trust the Kremlin propaganda, and then choose to believe the nonsensical, incoherent and self-contradictory Russian propaganda over evidence-based reporting? They must really want to believe in that nonsense to actually buy into it. On June 04 2023 08:57 JimmiC wrote: I’m assuming since birth through school, billboards, tv, everything outside of that one source and scant other news they get and got non stop force fed it. Russia is not North Korea. Russians had plenty of alternative sources of information available unless they live in the rural province. | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22283 Posts
On June 04 2023 08:03 maybenexttime wrote: The fact they are still just repeating the propaganda should be a clear sign that they are still exposed to it and that it works despite them perhaps believing they are not because they read an opposition news site.They're readers of Meduza, an opposition news site, with a clear anti-Putin and anti-war profile from day one. | ||
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ZeroByte13
795 Posts
On June 04 2023 07:53 maybenexttime wrote: I don't know people who started to support the war because of the mean comments on the internet but I know a few who were mostly pro-west before and now they are not anymore.Some of them literally started supporting genocide because of mean comments on the internet. Bunch of deplorable shits. Because they personally didn't do anything to deserve this hate - never voted for current government, never supported the aggression. And when they see something along the lines of "if you're Russian, you're bad regardless of your views, and I hate you just because of the place you were born in" - well, who would have guessed some will become bitter and not pro-west anymore. | ||
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Artesimo
Germany572 Posts
On June 04 2023 07:53 maybenexttime wrote: Some of them literally started supporting genocide because of mean comments on the internet. Bunch of deplorable shits. This is part of the reason why I have been so adamant at arguing against dehumanising russian soldiers, or people in this threat who are incapable of having a conversation without resolving to gotchas and attacks. It does nothing but make it harder for the other side to change their position and most likely just makes them double down on it. It completely mirrors my knowledge and general experience at dealing with nazi ideology, hostility achieves nothing but pushing them in deeper while constantly confronting them in a civil manner over time sometimes gets you results. It also mirrors what I experienced among my friends with russian and various other eastern european roots. Most of them started as at least somewhat reasonable people, but when feeling like they were being attacked constantly, many of them started to slip off the deep end, be it on the pro russian or the pro ukrainian side. And I get the sentiment of "they are in the wrong, so why should I sugarcoat it", to which my response is: "Yeah it sucks, but do you want to actually help your cause, or just feel good about yourself?". There are cases where hostile responses are warranted, but those are rare imo and usually apply to situations where you have to demonstrate your values / the values of a group. EDIT: Also what ZeroByte13 wrote is pretty important and something that has been a big issue among the people I know. Just people getting caught in the crossfire and ending up being pushed towards the wrong side... | ||
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pmp10
3396 Posts
On June 04 2023 06:34 maybenexttime wrote: https://meduza.io/feature/2023/06/03/dazhe-nekotorye-chitateli-meduzy-opravdyvayut-vtorzhenie-v-ukrainu-my-poprosili-ih-ob-yasnit-pochemu-vot-chto-iz-etogo-vyshlo An article showing the opinions of anti-Putin, liberal Russians who support the war (although many of them claim otherwise). I found it rather disgusting, I have to admit, even though I knew what to expect. But most of it is about escaping consequences of the war regardless of any propaganda. They think they are all in it together with Putin because their conspiratorial world-view doesn't allow Russia to withdraw or otherwise lose-face and survive. It's pretty funny that they cannot see internal consequences of prolonged war for Russia. Or maybe they are eager for Stalinist greatness and slowly creeping authoritarianism was taking too long. | ||
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ZeroByte13
795 Posts
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Artesimo
Germany572 Posts
On June 04 2023 18:23 ZeroByte13 wrote: Oh, weird how Artesimo and I wrote the exactly same thing at the same minute. We are both part of the same russian botnet I guess  There is no need to panic, everything is going according to plan. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5801 Posts
On June 04 2023 18:20 ZeroByte13 wrote: I don't know people who started to support the war because of the mean comments on the internet but I know a few who were mostly pro-west before and now they are not anymore. Because they personally didn't do anything to deserve this hate - never voted for current government, never supported the aggression. And when they see something along the lines of "if you're Russian, you're bad regardless of your views, and I hate you just because of the place you were born in" - well, who would have guessed some will become bitter and not pro-west anymore. Are you actually sure those people do not support the war? Because most of the people from that article claim they don't support the war, until you probe a little further and it turns out that they actually do. And any hate towards Russians as such in an extremely fringe phenomenon. Russians in the West live perfectly normal lives unless they openly support the war. And if your friends suddenly became opposed to the West because we're helping Ukraine fight back instead of letting Russia do its genocide unopposed, then perhaps they never had anything in common with our values. | ||
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ZeroByte13
795 Posts
On June 04 2023 18:36 maybenexttime wrote: Who said anything about "helping Ukraine"? And who said they're my friends? You're having some wrong assumptions here...And if your friends suddenly became opposed to the West because we're helping Ukraine fight back I was talking about the hate they see on the internet and them being lumped together with warmongers just because of their passport. And for many of them I'm pretty sure they do not support the war, some are even clearly pacifist in their views - or they hide it really-really well. On June 04 2023 18:36 maybenexttime wrote: We were talking about hate on the internet, not persecution in real life, weren't we? All these people do not live in the West, so all their experience comes from the internet.any hate towards Russians as such in an extremely fringe phenomenon. Russians in the West live perfectly normal lives unless they openly support the war. And yes, a lot of these hateful people on the interent are not very smart or even emotionally stable, but so are some of the people who are affected by this attitude towards them. So I see nothing suprising in this trend - "people see the hate they didn't deserve, some/many of these people become sad and then angry". | ||
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ZeroByte13
795 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11809 Posts
On June 04 2023 18:50 ZeroByte13 wrote: We were talking about hate on the internet, not persecution in real life, weren't we? All these people do not live in the West, so all their experience comes from the internet. Maybe, but that should be an important point. If "the west" would really hate Russians, then the lives of Russians living here should be horrible. But they are not. They are completely normal, they only get some flak if they support Putins criminal war. And even then they mostly live a normal live. | ||
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ZeroByte13
795 Posts
But I find them to be funny, not offensive, as I - understand why they might feel so - and care little of what they think unless I have to work/communicate with them long-term | ||
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Excludos
Norway8252 Posts
On June 04 2023 02:55 Copymizer wrote: Very strong speech from Olaf Scholz yesterday, finally stepping up properly and defending what is our duty, democracy, rule of law, peace and anti-imperialist dreams. The Germans booing him should but utterly ashamed of themselves and send to ukraine in person to experience first hand the horror Putin has brought upon the people there. He's 100% right, but Germans shouting angrily into a microphone always ends up sounding so very very wrong | ||
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Excludos
Norway8252 Posts
On June 04 2023 17:28 JimmiC wrote: Propaganda does not need to totalitarian to work. There is tons of research even starting to come out about how Facebook feeds and so on exert great influence. Or how much people get influenced by fox or pan. And they have plenty of other options. I think you are greatly underestimating. Not to mention many who did the teaching at home did grow up under the ussr full press. Exactly. People did and somehow still support Trump. You only need to repeat something often enough, and create information bubbles that makes people not want to seek other sources (Fake news narratives), to make people swallow propaganda wholly | ||
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