EPTRusso-Ukrainian War Thread - Page 399
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Erasme
Bahamas15899 Posts
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Simberto
Germany11640 Posts
As some of you may know, i am a teacher. I teach physics and maths. At the school i am currently teaching at, there are two groups for students who fled from Ukraine. I have newly been added to one of them as a teacher, but only two hours a week, and together with another teacher who has been doing this for months now. This will probably not be a very coherent story, and just a ramble of different things i observed in the two weeks i have been working with those children. It is both amazing how much those students learn, and how much effort they put into it, and horrific how pointless it is that they have to. With some of them, i can have reasonable conversations about maths in German after them only being here for less than half a year. If this were just a normal student exchange, how much they learned in such a short time would be amazing. They are also often motivated to learn, and to show what they have learned. But most of those students are here without their fathers. For a lot of them, the mothers fled together with the children, while the fathers stayed in Ukraine, either fighting or working keeping the country going. The children are often sad. Today, one of the students started basically walking his home on google earth because he was so homesick. (We sometimes work with school tablets) We have some shelves in the classroom with goods to help them at home (stuff like shower gel or clothes), from which they can take whatever they need. One day, one of the students came to class completely hungover with heavy eyes. Apparently he phones his father in the evening every day, and couldn't the night before. So he tried throughout the whole night, didn't sleep, and cried from fear that something happened to him. (It turned out that he was okay) Some of the older students intend to return to Ukraine to fight in the war. That is incredibly surreal to me. We are talking about 18-year olds who should be learning, getting a degree, and learning a trade or go to university. Instead they are forced into this shit. Seeing the real humans whose lives have been heavily impacted by this utterly pointless war makes me incredibly sad and angry. They should not be forced to go through this. They should be able to come here and learn if they want to, but they should not be forced to flee their home by a genocidal maniac stroking his dick in a pointless horrific war of aggression. They should not be forced to live without their fathers in a foreign country. They should not fear for their fathers or families lives. And they should not be in a situation where they feel a need to risk their lives defending their home in that pointless war. Putin and his whole cabal need to be put onto a war crimes tribunal, Nuremberg-Style. And every western country should send all the guns, weapons, ammunition, tanks, planes, and anything else we have to enable Ukraine to win this war. Not what we "can spare". What we have. | ||
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Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
Regarding the most recent missile attack against Ukraine, apparently this time only 34 out of 81 were successfully shot down, with 8 more being a miss. Some of the missiles are said to be hypersonic. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/mar/09/ukraine-war-missile-strikes-attacks-hit-kyiv-power-out-odesa-kharkiv | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On March 10 2023 23:46 JimmiC wrote: Thanks for a small taste of the human cost, sometimes it almost feels like talking about a strategy game and yet the human impact is so massive and heart breaking. Far right or left need to be able to see that there is no grand conspiracy by capitalists or globalists. It is Putin wanting more power and territory, he thinks of himself as a emperor. Any news source, meme or whatever someone is reading where they are hearing anything positive about Putins war, or negative about the western support of this war, discount everything from that source and find new better places to get your news. This iis clear evil from Putin and his higher ups, end stop. I think the situation is far more complex than just one or the other. There may not be a global conspiracy but there are certainly enterprises in the west that benefit from the war. The same goes for the Russian president, he may want more power, territory and bunch of other stuff but he is not fighting a war alone. Not only he managed to get the Russian people on board, he managed to get Belarus to some degree and Iranian drones. Things are just not black and white. | ||
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Sermokala
United States14048 Posts
On March 11 2023 01:55 Malongo wrote: I think the situation is far more complex than just one or the other. There may not be a global conspiracy but there are certainly enterprises in the west that benefit from the war. The same goes for the Russian president, he may want more power, territory and bunch of other stuff but he is not fighting a war alone. Not only he managed to get the Russian people on board, he managed to get Belarus to some degree and Iranian drones. Things are just not black and white. I don't see how that makes it not black and white. While some in the west, particularly oil and the defence industries, do benefit greatly from this war these people are not the Majority of either the economies or the politics in the west for continuing to supply and support Ukraine. Russia is the aggressor, Russia is the one attacking, Russia is the one that started the war. Getting Belarus to allow themselves to be used to attack Ukraine and Iran to sell them things only makes those parties equal to the oil and defence industries of America. Putin-russia/Zelensky-Ukraine is still extremely black and white for which side you should be supporting and which side you shouldn't be. No one forgives those who were "fooled" into committing war crimes and genociding others. No one forgives those who supported the one committing war crimes and genocides. Its very simply to tell which side I'm talking about here and its very simple to tell which side is the good side. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23489 Posts
Putin and his whole cabal need to be put onto a war crimes tribunal, Nuremberg-Style. Not likely without the Pentagon's permission. That's likely dependent on assuring them that this wouldn't lead to prosecuting US war criminals. The Pentagon is blocking the Biden administration from sharing evidence with the International Criminal Court in The Hague gathered by American intelligence agencies about Russian atrocities in Ukraine, according to current and former officials briefed on the matter. American military leaders oppose helping the court investigate Russians because they fear setting a precedent that might help pave the way for it to prosecute Americans. www.nytimes.com | ||
KwarK
United States43271 Posts
On March 11 2023 01:55 Malongo wrote: I think the situation is far more complex than just one or the other. There may not be a global conspiracy but there are certainly enterprises in the west that benefit from the war. The same goes for the Russian president, he may want more power, territory and bunch of other stuff but he is not fighting a war alone. Not only he managed to get the Russian people on board, he managed to get Belarus to some degree and Iranian drones. Things are just not black and white. Belarus was occupied by Russian troops years ago and is still occupied. It’s not independent. Iran is busy killing girls for not wearing hats. This is not a coalition of countries that all have valid perspectives on good vs evil. You wouldn’t argue that the fact that Japan and Germany found common cause in WW2 makes them morally grey. Putting two assholes in the same room doesn’t create ambiguity about whether they’re assholes. | ||
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KwarK
United States43271 Posts
Wagner’s new angle of “we’d have taken Bakhmut by now but the military is jealous of how hot our Canadian girlfriends are and won’t give us the ammo” is promising. They’re laying the ground work for why it’s not their fault if they fail. Plus “Bakhmut would collapse without our efforts, the military can’t do shit”. Now if it collapses they’ll say “told you so, only us and our 30cm dongs were holding the line but we deliberately stopped holding it because nobody appreciated us”. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15725 Posts
If reports of morale within the occupiers being very poor is true, this sort of language is very harmful. If Wagner is not only crucial but also politically insulated from Putin's threats, that means they have very little margin for error right now. I think Putin and his shit bag homies are barely holding the family together right now. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5675 Posts
On March 11 2023 01:55 Malongo wrote: I think the situation is far more complex than just one or the other. There may not be a global conspiracy but there are certainly enterprises in the west that benefit from the war. The same goes for the Russian president, he may want more power, territory and bunch of other stuff but he is not fighting a war alone. Not only he managed to get the Russian people on board, he managed to get Belarus to some degree and Iranian drones. Things are just not black and white. On the contrary, things are very black and white. As a matter of fact, this war is more black and white than WW2, which involved two totalitarian monstrosities on either side. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11640 Posts
On March 11 2023 07:20 maybenexttime wrote: On the contrary, things are very black and white. As a matter of fact, this war is more black and white than WW2, which had involved two totalitarian monstrosities on either side. Indeed. Few things could be more black and white than a people defending themselves against a murderous autocratic regime randomly deciding to invade them because it wants their stuff. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On March 11 2023 02:03 Sermokala wrote: I don't see how that makes it not black and white. While some in the west, particularly oil and the defence industries, do benefit greatly from this war these people are not the Majority of either the economies or the politics in the west for continuing to supply and support Ukraine. Russia is the aggressor, Russia is the one attacking, Russia is the one that started the war. Getting Belarus to allow themselves to be used to attack Ukraine and Iran to sell them things only makes those parties equal to the oil and defence industries of America. Putin-russia/Zelensky-Ukraine is still extremely black and white for which side you should be supporting and which side you shouldn't be. No one forgives those who were "fooled" into committing war crimes and genociding others. No one forgives those who supported the one committing war crimes and genocides. Its very simply to tell which side I'm talking about here and its very simple to tell which side is the good side. Nah, the good guy bad guy has always been the way to get people in check even inside the US. I don't support either side, I have sympathy for the victim civilians, but overall it is ridiculous to me to think there is just a "bad evil guy" trying to reach some x goal and a "good party of heroes" trying to stop him. Life/politics/economics just doesn't work that way. Even from a historic pov I have zero reason to believe the US is part of the "good guys" helping to stop the "evil in the world". It has always been the same speech in the past and it has always been proved wrong over time. Unfortunately we simply don't have the full picture and it's possible we never will. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5675 Posts
https://twitter.com/gerashchenko_en/status/1633865477310267393?s=46&t=-ESy3CkbdQEH6ivAj7OapA @Malongo I'm sure the Jews also must've provoked Hitler in some way. No way someone could just randomly genocide other people. If you don't support Ukraine in its struggle against Russia's aggression, you're either horribly misinformed or morally impaired. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On March 11 2023 02:57 KwarK wrote: Belarus was occupied by Russian troops years ago and is still occupied. It’s not independent. Iran is busy killing girls for not wearing hats. This is not a coalition of countries that all have valid perspectives on good vs evil. You wouldn’t argue that the fact that Japan and Germany found common cause in WW2 makes them morally grey. Putting two assholes in the same room doesn’t create ambiguity about whether they’re assholes. Idk where are you going with that but I find it hard to believe any country whatsoever can claim to hold the one "valid perspective on good vs evil". | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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KwarK
United States43271 Posts
On March 11 2023 08:18 Malongo wrote: Idk where are you going with that but I find it hard to believe any country whatsoever can claim to hold the one "valid perspective on good vs evil". You basically argued that if Russia was so evil how come Iran agrees with them. Therefore it can’t be as simple as good vs evil. My response is that Iran agreeing with them makes it more obviously a case of good vs evil because Iran are obviously assholes. If a child rapist said raping children is fine then obviously everyone would disagree. If a bunch of other child rapists jumped into the debate and supported the first that would make him more likely to be wrong, not less, because the only people who agreed with him were child rapists. And incidentally there is plenty of recent evidence of child rape by the Russian army and Iranian Revolutionary Guard. The evil side is the one raping kids. | ||
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Malongo
Chile3472 Posts
On March 11 2023 08:54 JimmiC wrote: Pretty easy rule of thumb is the one committing continued war crimes and attacking civilians is the bad guy, you do not need to over think it. It takes not much critical thinking to know that when you are far right and saying you need to kill Nazi's and then it swaps to killing satanists, you are not being honest. Whatever you are reading that leads you to believe that there are two sides just stop reading it and find a new news source. There are plenty out there so pick the one that best fits you, but that anything that claims Russia is not in the wrong, far right or far left is likely funded by Russia or just taking advantage of you for clicks and easy money. It is not giving you good information. If you are quite right, why do you agree with the Antifa guys? And if you are quite left, why would you agree with Nazi's? I'm sorry you were tricked, but realize you have been and move on. Lol so I was tricked because I think there is more to the story than just Russia attacking Ukraine because some evil madman. Funny enough I am not right nor left and definitively not center. But something tells me you are not willing to accept or understand that. I wonder how people get so patronizing as to tell others what to read or not, I bet there is a point in which even the stupid can stop. | ||
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Falling
Canada11375 Posts
For instance, do you take this the truth is somewhere in the middle, no fault approach to Mussolini's invasion into Ethiopia? Like "There may not be a global conspiracy but there are certainly enterprises in the west that benefit from the Italian war in Ethiopia... it's not black and white." Or perhaps the Belgian colony in the Congo. I don't support either side. I have sympathy for the victims, but history is complex and Leopold II might have had a point? | ||
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JimmiC
Canada22817 Posts
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