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Northern Ireland25396 Posts
On July 31 2025 05:16 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2025 17:06 Jankisa wrote:
So apparently EU wants to impose sanctions but Germany and Italy are dragging it's feet.
It's so blatantly transparent, their weapon sales are more important then stopping children from starving and being blown up and shoot at while waiting for food.
Just swell. Or, they realize, unlike France and the UK, that applying diplomatic pressure to Israel is a wrong-headed tactic that will actually prolong the war by incentivizing Hamas to leave the negotiating table. Which it already has done. Genuinely thankful to the government of Germany for having the clarity to stop this nonsense.
They’re not necessarily all that linked.
Applying pressure on Israel to not massacre civilians doesn’t innately incentivise Hamas or their hand as it were, it can be a singular goal.
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What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations.
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On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations.
Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about?
Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that.
Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now.
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I think we are long past Hamas or hostages mattering .
For that matter even the negotiations are now a pointless PR stunt, if the last cease-fire could be broken without consequence then the same will hold true of any future one.
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On August 01 2025 02:55 pmp10 wrote:
I think we are long past Hamas or hostages mattering .
For that matter even the negotiations are now a pointless PR stunt, if the last cease-fire could be broken without consequence then the same will hold true of any future one.
Not for Israel. I would not be surprised if the stick to their "defensive war against a brutal Hamas attack" story to justify their actions for decades to come.
Palestinians will hold Israel accountable for centuries. This is not something Israel can win long term by being evil, but they fail to realize it.
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On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now.
Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough?
Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull?
Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it.
The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir.
Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid.
Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters:
Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism."
Great people you are in the camp with.
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On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now.
Sorry, but Germany is doing nothing. Because Israel is controlling a 100% of the humanitarian effort. Israel did not allow protesters to deliver aid to Gaza because the amount was too little, so it was a publicity stunt, so aid was not allowed in. Now they are dropping aid by helicopters despite being able to simply allow un trucks into the area, which would bring in much much more aid. I guess publicity stunts are allowed in the end...
I guess they will allow publicity stunts from Germany as well, despite hundreds of truckloads of aid waiting to be allowed into the strip and bring denied.
Everybody gets a bit of positive publicity, meanwhile in Gaza people are still dying of malnutrition and being shot waiting to get food.
But I guess that's your point, if those 2 million people can just be starved with less diplomatic pressure and more publicity magic, then Israel will magically end the war sooner because...Hamas cares about the people of Gaza and will give up???
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On August 01 2025 03:37 Slydie wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 02:55 pmp10 wrote:
I think we are long past Hamas or hostages mattering .
For that matter even the negotiations are now a pointless PR stunt, if the last cease-fire could be broken without consequence then the same will hold true of any future one. Not for Israel. I would not be surprised if the stick to their "defensive war against a brutal Hamas attack" story to justify their actions for decades to come. Palestinians will hold Israel accountable for centuries. This is not something Israel can win long term by being evil, but they fail to realize it.
Might be (almost certainly) drinking to much copium. But there is a world where Hamas does this brutal attack and ends up destroyed (and Iran and the rest of their proxies weakened so much Iran can not project out of their boarders). And Palestine gets their state because instead of fighting Hamas like they did Hezbollah and Iran they do this awful, clear, brutal group punishment strategy.
Like I said I'm way to hopeful, but I really want to see the brutality and cruelty finally not get rewarded and have it backfire massively.
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On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Show nested quote +Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with.
When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell.
The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans.
The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true.
Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground.
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On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground.
What makes you think that would stop Israel from doing what they're doing? Hamas doesn't exist in the West Bank, yet bullshit continue happening there too.
Israel is deliberately starving Gaza. They aren't letting anybody else distribute aid and aren't permitting enough food to enter. Aid is only "surging" because people are seeing the results of Israel's actions and Israel can't "nuh-uh" the situation anymore.
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My dude, people who have worked in the Israeli government have written op eds about preventing aid (which includes starving) to Palestinians because they want to argue that they are not at war with civilians anymore.
The General Plan’s goal is to brutalise Palestinian civilians so badly that Israel can argue that anyone who still bothers to remain in their homeland is no civilian and can be considered to be supporting and fighting for Hamas.
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Northern Ireland25396 Posts
On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground.
‘Being a partner’ seems to equal just letting Israel do what it wants. Even minor symbolic moves are somehow some giant affront. Itd pathetic.
Recognising a hypothetical Palestinian state is not an endorsement of Hamas, otherwise countries doing it would demand it happen now, and be OK with Hamas running such a state. Which they have not done.
Israel gets attacked because its killed tens of thousands of civilians, it continues to territorially expand in contravention of international law and prior agreements. Because some senior members of government say absolutely heinous things about what they intend to do.
Hamas being bad isn’t some all-encompassing shield that make those things go away, and many think Israel would behave somewhat similarly if Hamas wasn’t a factor. But yeah let’s not have other nations symbolically rebuke Israel.
Without October 7th I don’t see Israel massacring civilians in response, sure absolutely. I don’t see seem halting their gradual territorial expansion though
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On August 01 2025 10:18 Gahlo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground. What makes you think that would stop Israel from doing what they're doing? Hamas doesn't exist in the West Bank, yet bullshit continue happening there too. Israel is deliberately starving Gaza. They aren't letting anybody else distribute aid and aren't permitting enough food to enter. Aid is only "surging" because people are seeing the results of Israel's actions and Israel can't "nuh-uh" the situation anymore.
Israel’s war goals from the beginning have been the removal of Hamas and the return of the hostages as has been stated consistently since 10/7. It is responding to a genocidal terrorist attack. Nothing that Hamas has done is in any way legitimate.
So Israel is “deliberately starving Gaza” despite having sent in 2 million tons of aid over the last two years and operating the GHF which is directly feeding Palestinians. You realize how that makes no logical sense right?
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On August 01 2025 14:50 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 10:18 Gahlo wrote:On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground. What makes you think that would stop Israel from doing what they're doing? Hamas doesn't exist in the West Bank, yet bullshit continue happening there too. Israel is deliberately starving Gaza. They aren't letting anybody else distribute aid and aren't permitting enough food to enter. Aid is only "surging" because people are seeing the results of Israel's actions and Israel can't "nuh-uh" the situation anymore. Israel’s war goals from the beginning have been the removal of Hamas and the return of the hostages as has been stated consistently since 10/7. It is responding to a genocidal terrorist attack. Nothing that Hamas has done is in any way legitimate. So Israel is “deliberately starving Gaza” despite having sent in 2 million tons of aid over the last two years and operating the GHF which is directly feeding Palestinians. You realize how that makes no logical sense right?
Only an idiot would assert that Israel is starving Gaza, yet the overwhelming majority of people who work there in the humanitarian field says they are.
Only an idiot would assert that Israel is committing genocide, yet the overwhelming majority of people who study genocide says they are.
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On August 01 2025 10:45 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground. ‘Being a partner’ seems to equal just letting Israel do what it wants. Even minor symbolic moves are somehow some giant affront. Itd pathetic. Recognising a hypothetical Palestinian state is not an endorsement of Hamas, otherwise countries doing it would demand it happen now, and be OK with Hamas running such a state. Which they have not done. Israel gets attacked because its killed tens of thousands of civilians, it continues to territorially expand in contravention of international law and prior agreements. Because some senior members of government say absolutely heinous things about what they intend to do. Hamas being bad isn’t some all-encompassing shield that make those things go away, and many think Israel would behave somewhat similarly if Hamas wasn’t a factor. But yeah let’s not have other nations symbolically rebuke Israel. Without October 7th I don’t see Israel massacring civilians in response, sure absolutely. I don’t see seem halting their gradual territorial expansion though
Recognizing a Palestinian state now, when no one knows what borders it will have, who will lead it, and without the requisite recognition of Israel by parts of the Arab world that haven't done so, is absolutely counterproductive. Hamas has welcomed it because it legitimizes the violence and terrorism that they've perpetrated. Now they can hold up these recognitions and say "look, we got a state out of it." It's a terrible mistake.
Israel has killed tens of thousands of civilians (not massacred, killed. There is a difference). This is a war. wars are by their nature awful and the people who decide to launch them bear significant responsibility for the death and destruction. Israel's military conduct throughout the war has been in line with or significantly better than most western militaries who fought in similar conflicts.
Hamas being bad isn't an all-encompassing shield, you are right. The problem is that people here and in the general discourse either forget or don't seem to really care how horrible Hamas is. They intentionally use civilians as part of their military strategy, and those choices impact the battlefield. They literally dug 500km of tunnels which they refuse to let civilians use as shelter. They booby-trap houses and buildings with IEDs. They steal and divert aid to maintain control over the civilian population. They set up military weapons in civilian buildings. And again, they are the ones who launched this war and consistently refuse to surrender. It's beyond clear now that they have zero regard for their own civilian population. It is extremely hard to fight an enemy like that. Even Imperial Japan which was run by people who were willing to commit mass suicide eventually laid down their weapons. But these are radical Jihadists and people seem to forget that.
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On August 01 2025 14:50 RJGooner wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 10:18 Gahlo wrote:On August 01 2025 06:02 RJGooner wrote:On August 01 2025 03:51 Jankisa wrote:On August 01 2025 02:23 RJGooner wrote:On July 31 2025 17:10 Jankisa wrote:
What logic, amazing.
Telling Israel that starving a population is not OK and they should stop is a bad thing.
Where is your humanity, do you just not look and listen to what's happening so you can so heartlessly regurgitate Israeli talking points without ever, for a second, stopping and thinking that maybe something should be done to make them stop?
No, it's nonsense, just like EU leaders were responsible for shooting in Washington, if you believe everything Nethyanahu's regime has to say.
Just like Hamas is responsible for every time negotiations fall apart, even as his aide is under investigation for sabotaging the negotiations. Hamas literally walked away from a ceasefire a few days ago. What on earth are you talking about? Stupid decisions like recognizing a Palestinian state or trying to apply sanctions to Israel make Hamas less likely to negotiate not more likely. It's not heartless to understand that. Germany has actually been smart. Instead of putting diplomatic pressure they're trying to improve the situation by sending their own assets to support the humanitarian surge that's happening now. Hamas walked away because? Do you know? Did you try to find out or did you read what Israel had to say about it and said good enough? Did you open any of the news articles with the children with sunken skin on their faces so badly that you can see their skull? Hamas has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with Israel starving children. This is on Israel, it's their decision, they did it. The fact that the western world has finally reached the point of saturation with the evil Israel is enacting upon these people is "stupid" to you, but you aren't heartless, no sir. Germany sent it's FM to Israel to push for ceasefire maybe you should write to them to tell them they are being stupid. Of course, Ben Gvir, member of Israel's government responded to this incredibly tepid move by calling Germans Nazi supporters: Without providing further context, the right-wing firebrand posted, "80 years after the Holocaust, and Germany is returning to support Nazism." Great people you are in the camp with. When the U.S. envoy pulls his negotiating team out and says "Hamas isn't negotiating in good faith" is that just him lying or could there maybe possibly be some truth to that? Do tell. The fact that you say Hamas has "nothing to do" with the situation on the ground is astounding. Hamas has everything to do with it. If they actually gave a shit about the Gazans they would have agreed to a ceasefire tomorrow and demilitarized. Instead, we've seen that they're completely happy to kill, starve, or torture their own population to stay in control. They hijack humanitarian aid, they embed themselves in their own civilian population, and they do NOTHING to feed or protect Gazans. The situation in Gaza is terrible. I myself (on this forum no less) have been critical of the Israeli war fighting strategy and the GHF's execution. But Israel isn't deliberately starving Gaza and it's the only party in this conflict that actually gives a shit about civilians. If they didn't they wouldn't be implementing humanitarian pauses and surging aid like they're doing now. I know that may be hard to accept for you because you want any excuse to attack Israel, but it's true. Germany sending its FM to push for a ceasefire is vastly different than putting sanctions or recognizing a Palestinian state. Germany is actually trying to be a partner. The other countries are giving breathing room to Hamas while essentially doing nothing to help the situation on the ground. What makes you think that would stop Israel from doing what they're doing? Hamas doesn't exist in the West Bank, yet bullshit continue happening there too. Israel is deliberately starving Gaza. They aren't letting anybody else distribute aid and aren't permitting enough food to enter. Aid is only "surging" because people are seeing the results of Israel's actions and Israel can't "nuh-uh" the situation anymore. Israel’s war goals from the beginning have been the removal of Hamas and the return of the hostages as has been stated consistently since 10/7. It is responding to a genocidal terrorist attack. Nothing that Hamas has done is in any way legitimate. So Israel is “deliberately starving Gaza” despite having sent in 2 million tons of aid over the last two years and operating the GHF which is directly feeding Palestinians. You realize how that makes no logical sense right?
There's a great article in the guardian today that tells you everything you need to know.
Even given the meagre calorie count that Israel has determined that someone needs to survive, they aren't letting nearly enough aid in per person to feed everyone who needs it.
The maths doesn't add up.
Sorry.
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Austria4114 Posts
@RJGooner At this point it's on you to prove your point. The evidence shows overwhelmingly that Gazans are being starved, and probably deliberately so, and many have already starved to death, including children. Please prove to us that Gazans are in fact receiving anywhere near enough food and medicine to be able to survive and stay reasonably healthy. Show us the numbers that you're working with.
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United States42711 Posts
I believe his point is that Gaza is naturally food insecure and would starve without any outside interference but rather than do nothing and let it starve Israel is bringing millions of tons of food in. And that if they had a deliberate policy of starving Gaza they wouldn’t spend so much effort giving Gazans food.
I think where you land on that one varies depending on where you place blame for Gaza’s food instability. Israel providing food is a fact, it’s a question of what their obligation is.
Take Sudan for example. Famine there is orders of magnitude worse and Israel isn’t supplying millions of tons of food to Sudan but nobody blames them because they’re not involved. Whereas Gaza has far less hunger and Israel provides far more food but they are still blamed because they’re judged by some to be responsible for the underlying food instability. And if they’re responsible for the instability then anything short of fully providing relief will put blood on their hands.
I don’t think there’s disagreement on whether there is starvation, whether Israel is instrumental in preventing mass starvation, and whether there are contradictions within the positions and statements of different blocs within Israel. Different reasonable people can look at the exact same fact pattern and come to different conclusions.
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On August 01 2025 18:24 KwarK wrote:
I believe his point is that Gaza is naturally food insecure and would starve without any outside interference but rather than do nothing and let it starve Israel is bringing millions of tons of food in. And that if they had a deliberate policy of starving Gaza they wouldn’t spend so much effort giving Gazans food.
I think where you land on that one varies depending on where you place blame for Gaza’s food instability. Israel providing food is a fact, it’s a question of what their obligation is.
Take Sudan for example. Famine there is orders of magnitude worse and Israel isn’t supplying millions of tons of food to Sudan but nobody blames them because they’re not involved. Whereas Gaza has far less hunger and Israel provides far more food but they are still blamed because they’re judged by some to be responsible for the underlying food instability. And if they’re responsible for the instability then anything short of fully providing relief will put blood on their hands.
I don’t think there’s disagreement on whether there is starvation, whether Israel is instrumental in preventing mass starvation, and whether there are contradictions within the positions and statements of different blocs within Israel. Different reasonable people can look at the exact same fact pattern and come to different conclusions.
Oh it's nice that we've been updated to being reasonable, we weren't the last time you talked about this
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United States42711 Posts
On August 01 2025 18:30 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2025 18:24 KwarK wrote:
I believe his point is that Gaza is naturally food insecure and would starve without any outside interference but rather than do nothing and let it starve Israel is bringing millions of tons of food in. And that if they had a deliberate policy of starving Gaza they wouldn’t spend so much effort giving Gazans food.
I think where you land on that one varies depending on where you place blame for Gaza’s food instability. Israel providing food is a fact, it’s a question of what their obligation is.
Take Sudan for example. Famine there is orders of magnitude worse and Israel isn’t supplying millions of tons of food to Sudan but nobody blames them because they’re not involved. Whereas Gaza has far less hunger and Israel provides far more food but they are still blamed because they’re judged by some to be responsible for the underlying food instability. And if they’re responsible for the instability then anything short of fully providing relief will put blood on their hands.
I don’t think there’s disagreement on whether there is starvation, whether Israel is instrumental in preventing mass starvation, and whether there are contradictions within the positions and statements of different blocs within Israel. Different reasonable people can look at the exact same fact pattern and come to different conclusions. Oh it's nice that we've been updated to being reasonable, we weren't the last time you talked about this
What are you talking about?
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EPT
