EPTThings Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine - Page 462
| Forum Index > General Forum |
NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. | ||
|
Jankisa
Croatia1058 Posts
| ||
|
Billyboy
1385 Posts
An Egyptian source with knowledge of the matter told CNN on Wednesday that Hamas has submitted its response on Gaza ceasefire and hostage deal, but “did not meet the expectations” of Qatari and Egyptian mediators. The source said mediators in return have “asked Hamas to submit a revised response that could enable progress toward reaching a deal.” “The mediators are pushing for the updated reply to arrive today,” the source added. An Israeli source has said: “Hamas’s response was received by the mediators and was unacceptable even to them.” “Israel hasn’t even officially received the reply. It is fundamentally different from what was on the table,” the source told CNN on Wednesday. Following Hamas’ response, two far-right Israeli ministers have called on Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to continue the war in Gaza until Hamas is “destroyed.” “(The) time has come to close the door once and for all on a partial deal,” Israel’s Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich said Wednesday in a statement addressed to Netanyahu. “We should not be talking to Hamas. Hamas must be destroyed – no humanitarian aid, no surrender deals,” Israel’s National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir also said. As a side note, Netanyahu is blaming Hamas for the starvation saying enough aid is getting in. Horrible if true, but highly unlikely. Israeli government spokesperson David Mencer has told reporters that Israel is not responsible for any food shortages or hunger in Gaza. “In Gaza today there is no famine caused by Israel,” Mencer said at a media briefing on Wednesday. “There is, however, a man-made shortage engineered by Hamas. Now, too often the full story is not being told. The suffering exists because Hamas has created it. The suffering exists because Hamas has made it.” More than 100 humanitarian aid organizations have called on Israel to allow the full flow of food and clean water into Gaza, with the director of Oxfam telling CNN that full-scale famine is imminent while aid is “being systematically restricted by the Government of Israel.” Mencer dismissed the criticism of aid organizations Wednesday, claiming that “these are false warnings.” The US and Israeli-backed Gaza Humanitarian Foundation (GHF) also claimed in a statement to CNN that United Nations aid is being “looted” by Hamas and others. The UN reported this week that over 1,000 Palestinians have been killed seeking aid in Gaza since late May when GHF began operating in the strip. Of those, hundreds were killed near GHF sites, according to the UN. GHF called the figure “false and exaggerated,” and said it appears “to come directly from the Hamas-controlled Gaza Health Ministry.” Both the UN and US officials have previously appraised the figures from the Ministry of Health in Gaza as credible. | ||
|
PremoBeats
538 Posts
The issue has mostly been Hamas stealing, hoarding and reselling aid at inflated prices on the black market to make a quick buck for more rockets off the backs of "their" population, beating and torturing Palestinians who tried to "steal" some of the food and aid like they have been doing for decades. So, pretty likely to be true, as this is a recurring theme in this conflict. The collective punishment is still inexcusable, but the stated goal and intent by Israel has always been to hunger out Hamas, not the population... the cruel but necessary distinction between a war crime and genocide. And didn't MP leave this thread before after posting some nonsense about fascism? How did the shitshow of the last pages even come to pass, lol :D On the issue of his ban: a warning would be good... same goes for applying a standard. There were many more bannable things going on in this thread since I joined, so I'd let MP back into the fun. | ||
|
Billyboy
1385 Posts
Aside from that collective punishment very rarely works, it often has done the opposite and make people more willing to fight against you. And it has no chance working here because Hamas does not care whether the Gazan's suffer or die. They either justify it as them having a better afterlife, they think destruction of Israel and killing all that supported them is worth that cost, or they are just evil and don't care anymore. No matter the reason it is clearly a bad military strategy which makes the use of it pretty clearly not for military purposes. As an aside most people wouldn't care if they were accused of a war crime or genocide in a court, the punishments are not different depending on the war crime. Like if you get convicted of the war crime of intentionally killing civilians or genocide, the needle feels the same and has the same outcome. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22049 Posts
| ||
|
Gahlo
United States35165 Posts
On July 24 2025 05:30 PremoBeats wrote: Well, we actually know how much food went in and how much is needed. The math on that actually is not very hard to do. The issue has mostly been Hamas stealing, hoarding and reselling aid at inflated prices on the black market to make a quick buck for more rockets off the backs of "their" population, beating and torturing Palestinians who tried to "steal" some of the food and aid like they have been doing for decades. So, pretty likely to be true, as this is a recurring theme in this conflict. The collective punishment is still inexcusable, but the stated goal and intent by Israel has always been to hunger out Hamas, not the population... the cruel but necessary distinction between a war crime and genocide. And didn't MP leave this thread before after posting some nonsense about fascism? How did the shitshow of the last pages even come to pass, lol :D On the issue of his ban: a warning would be good... same goes for applying a standard. There were many more bannable things going on in this thread since I joined, so I'd let MP back into the fun. What money do you actually think is left to sell thing for? If the goal is to starve (hunger out, btw, is a wild term) Hamas and Hamas supposedly has the ability to take the food from the populace then starving the population isn't some unfortunate byproduct, it's the goal. They stop making a "quick buck" to make rockets if aid flowed freely and they weren't committing perfidy with what trickle is allowed instead. | ||
|
PremoBeats
538 Posts
This is just an educated guess, but I think the actual goal was to pit the population against Hamas and to starve Hamas out in the sense of upping the pressure (similar to what Hamas does witht he human shield tactics and denying the food distribution). They are both fighting their war on the backs of the Gazan population (who would have guessed, huh?) | ||
|
Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
Edit: guess the radio left a few things out. They also demanded Israel let aid into Gaza and stop annexing mire territory. So I guess they actually grew some balls, kudos. | ||
|
Gorsameth
Netherlands22049 Posts
On July 26 2025 02:36 Broetchenholer wrote: Are they... actually going to do something?Ahahaha, I almost thought my country had decided to grow balls. In the news they just stated that the UK, France and Germany called for an immediate ceasefire to stop the war. The also called for Hamas to give back all hostages and give away all their weapons. So brave. Edit: guess the radio left a few things out. They also demanded Israel let aid into Gaza and stop annexing mire territory. So I guess they actually grew some balls, kudos. Because if they aren't going to actually put real pressure on Israel then their balls are still very much lost. | ||
|
Jankisa
Croatia1058 Posts
Germany actually supplies a lot of military equipment to Israel, if they grew some balls that's the thing they'd stop first. | ||
|
Broetchenholer
Germany1950 Posts
I would assume first they would continue delivering weapons but putting mild economic pressure and inconvenience on Israel. | ||
|
Counc1l1
9 Posts
After the amount of dubious claims (if not outright lies) Israel has promulgated to justify the mass slaughter happening in Gaza (this one being the latest), I take anything they say with an enormous amount of skepticism. | ||
|
PremoBeats
538 Posts
| ||
|
Jankisa
Croatia1058 Posts
It's so blatantly transparent, their weapon sales are more important then stopping children from starving and being blown up and shoot at while waiting for food. Just swell. | ||
|
Slydie
1929 Posts
On July 30 2025 17:06 Jankisa wrote: So apparently EU wants to impose sanctions but Germany and Italy are dragging it's feet. It's so blatantly transparent, their weapon sales are more important then stopping children from starving and being blown up and shoot at while waiting for food. Just swell. I think this is about historic guilt, not weapon sales. | ||
|
Jankisa
Croatia1058 Posts
1. US 2. Germany 3. Italy I don't think it's that, I mean it might be a factor but the numbers don't lie. | ||
|
Magic Powers
Austria4478 Posts
Public support for Israel compared to Palestinians is split, which I think explains why German leadership takes no strong action and prefers to voice soft criticism of Israel (exactly the same as Biden has done previously). They seem afraid of pushback from either direction. https://www.thepipd.com/resources/polling-2024/ https://ygo-assets-websites-editorial-emea.yougov.net/documents/PIPD_March2024_Germany_tables_w.pdf I don't have any insight into how German media has been presenting the conflict since October 7. I found this interview with Kai Hafez where he says that reporting was initially focused on Israel's 1200 victims and it took a long time for the media to start responding to international criticism. In other Western countries such as the US, Britain, France, Hafez says, the media focused on the suffering and humanitarian crisis in Gaza a lot sooner. Also the fact of German arms trade to Israel wasn't initially of interest for German media. So apparently they were hesitant to report impartially about the conflict, and they also didn't touch on fundamental questions very much. Hafez also criticizes Germany's politicians for not speaking up. https://www.deutschlandfunkkultur.de/falsche-balance-wie-berichten-deutsche-medien-ueber-den-krieg-in-gaza-100.html In the US - where reporting has been more balanced - there's a very powerful trend over time towards more pro-Palestinian views. 12-20% pro-Palestinian used to be the norm, but this year in April it reached 33%. Meanwhile pro-Israel used to be 51-64% and that dropped to 46%. These trends appear to be mostly unrelated to October 7, as a very clear convergence began in the years prior. The trends also don't appear to be stopping. https://news.gallup.com/poll/657404/less-half-sympathetic-toward-israelis.aspx | ||
|
Jankisa
Croatia1058 Posts
People were seeing IDF being increasingly belligerent for years, sniping kids and laughing, sniping reporters, acting as body guards for settlers, it slowly eroded from being pretty consistent starting around 2016 when Nethyanahu latched his brand to Trump's. | ||
|
RJGooner
United States2076 Posts
On July 30 2025 17:06 Jankisa wrote: So apparently EU wants to impose sanctions but Germany and Italy are dragging it's feet. It's so blatantly transparent, their weapon sales are more important then stopping children from starving and being blown up and shoot at while waiting for food. Just swell. Or, they realize, unlike France and the UK, that applying diplomatic pressure to Israel is a wrong-headed tactic that will actually prolong the war by incentivizing Hamas to leave the negotiating table. Which it already has done. Genuinely thankful to the government of Germany for having the clarity to stop this nonsense. | ||
|
Billyboy
1385 Posts
https://www.cnn.com/2025/07/30/middleeast/arab-league-hamas-gaza-israel-intl | ||
| ||
