NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.
On October 01 2024 06:04 pmp10 wrote: And another interesting thing to note: Bibi's political fortunes are recovering. If he scores more successes in Lebanon he might just get to stay at PM post. Quite the reverse from the time when everyone expected him to soon land in prison.
I think this is largely due to most people assuming the strikes against Hezbollah will prevent large scale war. Since Hezbollah has always been a valid threat to Israel, if Netanyahu authorizing this attack leads to Hezbollah no longer being a valid threat to Israel, that is a huge improvement to the Israeli people’s overall wellbeing.
If this ends up as a large scale war where Israel is repeatedly trading punches with Iran, that sentiment will vanish. It is similar to how Americans viewed the attack against Japan as preventing Japan from harming Americans. It’s all about it appearing as though Hezbollah may be eliminated as a valid threat to Israel
Lets go back to a case that is still unresolved to show why exactly Israel should lose all support and funding.
Hind Rajab, her family and two paramedics are victims of murder committed by the IDF back in January. The US doesn't seem to care about this case and is allowing Israel to investigate itself at the slowest possible pace. The US is not threatening the withdrawal of support, not threatening sanctions, not threatening any consequences whatsoever. This is only one of many examples of the war crimes Israel has committed with support from its allies.
Lots of absolutely terrible things have happened and then it got better after. What is happening now to Hezbollah right now is good. They are the worst of the worst. They are not friends of Lebanese, even less than Hamas is the friends of Palestinians.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you here if the damage was limited to Hezbollah and Hamas, I know I certainly wouldn't. Unfortunately, what is happening now, is also happening to thousands of innocent civilians.
On September 30 2024 23:35 Billyboy wrote:
I was not saying the situations are the same, simply pointing out that massive bombing campaigns alone do not lead to suicide bombers.
Bombing campaigns alone aren't what led to the violent resistance to Israel; it's the occupation and dehumanization of peoples. The comparisons you should be looking at aren't Germany or Japan, it's Vietnam and Afghanistan.
On September 30 2024 23:35 Billyboy wrote:
My point is that when anyone talks bad about Hezbollah, Hamas or any of the Iranian terrorist groups the dog pile of whatabout Israel and generally in a directly or indirect attack on the morality of the person for mentioning that without focusing 99% on Israel.
That's because there's not much of a conversation to be had about how bad Hamas or Hezbollah are.
A: Hamas is bad! B: Yeah, they fucking suck. C: Fuck Hamas! A: Yeah, fuck them! ... anyway, Serral or Maru?
Meanwhile every time IDF shoots a journalist or blows up a baby, we get a dozen shills pop up explaining how that journalist was probably a terrorist and if he wasn't he was a spy and if he wasn't he couldn't be identified as one and if he could then Israel will definitely investigate it and if they don't it's just because they're busy during wartime and anyway shutup it's just collateral damage and survival of all Jews in the world is at stake you damn antisemite.
To be fair, these conversations actually aren't all that much more interesting than the above one about Hamas would have been, certainly they've become just as circularly repetitive.
On September 28 2024 11:02 Husyelt wrote: Can Israel stop attacking its neighbors for a single day? Do we need a 300-1 kill to death ratio for civilians and terrorist? thought 50-1 was pretty bad already
Interesting take, as Hezbollah has been sending rockets at Israel almost daily for nearly a year now.
Whether or not you believe Hezbollah's intention or promise that "we will stop firing once you have a ceasefire in Gaza", Israel has also been doing the same to Hezbollah for the same duration, and from what I've read, far more damage output. Im certainly not a tankie or a far left progressive like Emma Vigeland who says "Houthis and Hezbollah are heroes and the resistance", but nothing justifies a 300-1 kill ratio for civilian to terrorist. or 50-1 in terms of confirmed kills in Gaza.
"A Waco a day, the IDF way"
Please provide evidence for that 300-1 kill ratio. Hamas and the Gazan ministry of health don't distinguish between civilian and militant casualties for propaganda reasons. Using confirmed kills is literally Hamas propaganda.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/number-children-missing-separated-families-gaza-high-21000/story?id=111365036 sure lets just go with children, and in June Nearly 15,000 children have been killed in the Israel-Hamas war, the UN says. Hamas killed 800 civilians on Oct 7, so even just children to total civilians is 18-1. Is that propaganda or just facts? And whats worse at this point, Israel's propaganda or Hamas? Which one brings more terror on the region and covers up for it? I think its clear the current government Israel and Hamas should be treated like we do Russia and Putin.
Israel literally doesnt allow journalists into Gaza to see the total death toll, right now its at 45,000, but the real number is likely 2-3x higher.
Your initial claim is that there's a 50-1 civilian to terrorist ratio. You have no evidence to back it up so now you're changing your argument to civilians killed in Israel relative to civilians killed in Gaza.
For Lebanon you don't even read your own source. The strikes were not for one person:
Analysts have called it the largest campaign of Israeli aerial strikes against Hezbollah, the Iran-backed Lebanese militia, since the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war. .... The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
Strikes damaged several buildings inside populated areas in Lebanon's south as well as farther east in the country's Bekaa Valley, but at least one landed some 80 miles north of the border near the city of Byblos, according to Lebanon's state-run broadcaster. ... On Friday, an airstrike over the Lebanese capital city, Beirut, killed at least 50 Hezbollah fighters and civilians, including children. Israel's military said that the strike had targeted a senior Hezbollah commander.
What on earth are you talking about. The current death toll in Gaza is over 50,000. Hamas killed 800 civilians. Thats 50-1.
The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
yeah hes lying to you. spoiler alert, Isreal lies and refuses journalists in, or did you forget about that? have you ever looked at satellite images of Gaza or Lebanon post strikes? Its just obliteration. Its like Mariupolor or Bakhmut.
at the end of the day lets say the death counts of civilians and terrorists is split between our numbers. Israel has no post war plan for Gaza. it had none for 2006, and it has none for 2024. the occupation will continue until Hamas lashes out, and Israel will turn the civilian population to rubble until morale improves.
Can Israel stop attacking its neighbors for a single day? Do we need a 300-1 kill to death ratio for civilians and terrorist? thought 50-1 was pretty bad already
You were clearly talking about a civilian to terrorist death ratio. Especially in the context of the 300-1 number since that was the estimated number of deaths in the Nasrallah strike. Now you're changing it to something else again and it's not even a proper comparison. There are around 41500 fatalities according to Gaza health ministry. That includes Hamas militants yet you only use Israeli civilians.
The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
yeah hes lying to you. spoiler alert, Isreal lies and refuses journalists in, or did you forget about that? have you ever looked at satellite images of Gaza or Lebanon post strikes? Its just obliteration. Its like Mariupolor or Bakhmut.
You're selectively quoting. Leaving it out makes no difference to the point I was making. Your own source shows that the airstrikes are in multiple parts of Lebanon with significant casualties for Hezbollah. As I pointed out earlier Israel has eliminated most Hezbollahs senior leadership in a week. It's clearly part of their strategy:
The IDF is conducting a decapitation campaign targeting senior Hezbollah leadership as part of its air campaign across Lebanon. This campaign could impact Hezbollah’s ability to effectively organize and direct its forces. The IDF reported that its September 24 airstrike which killed Hezbollah’s Rocket and Missile Unit Commander Ibrahim Muhammad Qabisi also killed Qabisi’s deputy Abbas Sharafeddine and a senior commander from Hezbollah’s missile division, Hussein Ezzeddine.[7] Ezzeddine was reportedly close to the former top Hezbollah commander Fuad Shukr, who Israel killed in late July.[8] The IDF has conducted several major airstrikes in recent days targeting senior Hezbollah commanders and their communication networks.[9] CTP-ISW noted that Israel detonating Hezbollah pagers and personal radios disrupted the group’s internal communications and may have prompted the group to begin using less secure methods of communication that Israel could then intercept and exploit.[10]
You're free to criticize Israel but at least stick to the facts.
edit: ofc im free to criticize Israel, thats the point. we criticize our allies when they do wrong. I love France maybe more than any other ally, but what they did in Algiers is an abomination. Israel is doing that on steroids.
If you think for a even a second that 41,000 Gazans (terrorist + civilians) killed is about right, I have some settlements to sell you in the West Bank. The real numbers are into the hundred thousand plus if Israel would allow actual journalists in.
If Oct the 7th went in a different direction, lets say the IDF was somewhat aware of what was going on, and during the fighting and chaos, dozens of Hamas groups got confused and went into Israel proper with the hostages. Into homes, hospitals, schools, industrial areas etc.
Do you think for a millisecond that they would have targeted those terrorists in a different manner than they have in Gaza?
They would have sent in special military operations, isolated them, and forced fight or surrender or be killed. But hostages and Hamas go back to Gaza?
lol bro we going to drop more bombs than the allies did on Dresden, cause fuck yeah we can. Hamas is even worse than Nazis, their civilian population deserves it. "Remember these are animals, less than humans. Hamas should not be dealt with with special ops, that may lead to more IDF soldier losses. no... no they need 7,000 2000 lb bombs on the entirety of Gaza. Does it matter that Hamas is .5% as powerful and dangerous as the Nazi empire? no. Please dont think about the scale of power here. hoo boy collective punishment sure looks so good on us. Are we 25 times as powerful as Hamas and Hezbollah combined? yes. but please consider how much they hate us. dont look at mathematical numbers and backed by the worlds superpower. Definitely dont do that. Otherwise we may look like we are the Occupiers illegally for 15+ years. Dont do that.
It seems that US okayed Lebanon invasion after limiting its scope. That's really interesting as it shows US is willing to test Iran's red lines in a way they would never dare for Russia. Chances are they changed their initial stance of 'no invasion' after Nasrallah was blown up to no Iranian response. If that is the case, a successful limited invasion of Lebanon might change their mind again.
It is such a complete coincidence that, as the war in Gaza has slowed down, suddenly Israel extends the war to Lebanon. I'm sure this has nothing to do with Netanyahu desperately holding on to power.
Forgot to post the news link:
"Analysis: Israeli forces believe they have 'finished' in Gaza - but face tougher job in Lebanon"
On October 01 2024 15:36 pmp10 wrote: It seems that US okayed Lebanon invasion after limiting its scope. That's really interesting as it shows US is willing to test Iran's red lines in a way they would never dare for Russia. Chances are they changed their initial stance of 'no invasion' after Nasrallah was blown up to no Iranian response. If that is the case, a successful limited invasion of Lebanon might change their mind again.
Geopolitically keeping Russia in Ukraine for at least one year, ideally two is best case scenario. I don't think that's why they "respect" their red lines but if there had been a confrontation with a no fly zone the first week of that war Russia would have been way better off today.
Iran fucking around all over the middle east and sending weapons to Russia is for sure a reason their proxies are finding out right now. It's not the only reason but it's probably way easier for Israel to get approval from the US than it otherwise would be.
Lots of absolutely terrible things have happened and then it got better after. What is happening now to Hezbollah right now is good. They are the worst of the worst. They are not friends of Lebanese, even less than Hamas is the friends of Palestinians.
I don't think anyone would disagree with you here if the damage was limited to Hezbollah and Hamas, I know I certainly wouldn't. Unfortunately, what is happening now, is also happening to thousands of innocent civilians.
I was not saying the situations are the same, simply pointing out that massive bombing campaigns alone do not lead to suicide bombers.
Bombing campaigns alone aren't what led to the violent resistance to Israel; it's the occupation and dehumanization of peoples. The comparisons you should be looking at aren't Germany or Japan, it's Vietnam and Afghanistan.
My point is that when anyone talks bad about Hezbollah, Hamas or any of the Iranian terrorist groups the dog pile of whatabout Israel and generally in a directly or indirect attack on the morality of the person for mentioning that without focusing 99% on Israel.
That's because there's not much of a conversation to be had about how bad Hamas or Hezbollah are.
A: Hamas is bad! B: Yeah, they fucking suck. C: Fuck Hamas! A: Yeah, fuck them! ... anyway, Serral or Maru?
Meanwhile every time IDF shoots a journalist or blows up a baby, we get a dozen shills pop up explaining how that journalist was probably a terrorist and if he wasn't he was a spy and if he wasn't he couldn't be identified as one and if he could then Israel will definitely investigate it and if they don't it's just because they're busy during wartime and anyway shutup it's just collateral damage and survival of all Jews in the world is at stake you damn antisemite.
To be fair, these conversations actually aren't all that much more interesting than the above one about Hamas would have been, certainly they've become just as circularly repetitive.
No one wants civilians to die here either, every war they do though. When terrorists are involved way more do. I don't think you can lump Palestine and Lebanon together. There has been no occupation there, well Hezbollah have but many people ignore that. I guess not so different from how many ignore the occupation in Gaza and the WestBank of Israel.
I have not read these dozen of shills, not even one. I have read people explaining that is not an accident by the Iranian led groups but rather their design. But even those people seem very few here.
I have no clue how you would get rid of them without either attacking Iran directly or doing what the IDF is doing in Lebanon. I think in 20=50 years it is going to come out that the IDF had lots of help from the Lebanese if not their government to get done what they have. Israel has a pretty legendary intelligence group but the type of success they have had being so much higher than in Gaza it does not seem likely it was just them.
Hezbollah is very unpoular with a lot of Lebanese for many reasons, but they lost a lot of the good will that they did have when they joined Iran in supporting Assad and killing Muslims. It became much clearer what they were really all about.
Vietnam would be a better comparison for Gaza maybe, and I don't know of any suicide bombers, especially post conflict. Afghanistan maybe except that might be the counter point to what I think you are after as many Afghans especially the women were sure wishing the Americans finished what they started. It is not like the Taliban are loved, their version of human rights might be worse than Iran's which is hard to even comprehend.
The interesting conversations are not about how bad the IDF or Hamas is, it would be about how we got here, possible solutions, different ways to up root the terrorist groups, getting Bibi out of Israel and Hamas out of Gaza. I would enjoy that especially if we had informed people not trying to post (often dumb, always insulting) one liners.
I find this thread very strange because I thought it would be more moderated, or at least as moderated as the BW and SC2 threads but people on the regular get away with shit over and over that wouldn't fly there. It is quite shocking and I don't really understand the rules, as it is not a free for all some do get warned or banned Just not consistently as far as I can tell.
@husylet that is a good point about how Israel would act if it was their civilians compared to Gazan's. There is some expectation for every nation to operate in that manner (caring about their own more), and probably one of the many reasons that nations are only behind religion for starting wars and causing awful human destruction. (not saying all religions are bad, just talking history.)
Strangely Russia, Iran, NK, Taliban, they seem to treat everyone pretty damn awful, in a horrible way I guess that is "fairer".
@CuddlyCuteKitten I did not think about how Iran's support of Russia might impact the US's policy. Hopefully I'm alive when a bunch of this stuff becomes declassified. Both in how IDF was able to be so effective against Hezbollah and how the behind closed doors talks are actually going.
On October 01 2024 19:55 Magic Powers wrote: It is such a complete coincidence that, as the war in Gaza has slowed down, suddenly Israel extends the war to Lebanon. I'm sure this has nothing to do with Netanyahu desperately holding on to power.
Forgot to post the news link:
"Analysis: Israeli forces believe they have 'finished' in Gaza - but face tougher job in Lebanon"
It's so convenient for Netanyahu that this is said to be an even more difficult undertaking.
It’s not a coincidence but it’s also not what you’re implying. They’ve been at war with Hezbollah in Lebanon since Hezbollah attacked them on Oct 8. They focused on the hostages first. As they finish the first task they move to the second. That does not mean the second task was manufactured so that there continues to be a task, it merely means that things happen in order.
On October 02 2024 00:31 Nebuchad wrote: What reasoning are they giving for saying the first task finished?
No reasoning given, the task is unfinished. There are still many members of Hamas actively fighting and the hostages still aren't rescued, so the task hasn't been accomplished yet.
They're just changing their rhetoric to fit their true motive. Another threat must be fought so Netanyahu can stay in power.
The problem is that Israel is coming dangerously close to accomplishing the task in Gaza, therefore they have to start a war in Lebanon immediately. If they don't do that in time, they'll have to make efforts towards lasting peace, which could potentially result in Hezbollah reducing the aggression against Israel. If things were to unfold like this, Israel would have no clear reason to continue the war effort. It's an unacceptable scenario that can be safely prevented by invading Lebanon right now.
On October 02 2024 00:31 Nebuchad wrote: What reasoning are they giving for saying the first task finished?
No reasoning given, the task is unfinished. There are still many members of Hamas actively fighting and the hostages still aren't rescued, so the task hasn't been accomplished yet.
They're just changing their rhetoric to fit their true motive. Another threat must be fought so Netanyahu can stay in power.
The problem is that Israel is coming dangerously close to accomplishing the task in Gaza, therefore they have to start a war in Lebanon immediately. If they don't do that in time, they'll have to make efforts towards lasting peace, which could potentially result in Hezbollah reducing the aggression against Israel. If things were to unfold like this, Israel would have no clear reason to continue the war effort. It's an unacceptable scenario that can be safely prevented by invading Lebanon right now.
If I'm honest I just think this is because Biden is soon out and Benny is afraid Harris might win and not be as good for his plans. I understand Gors' objection that he has incentives on his own and that's what you're saying too, it doesn't need to be related to the election, but I don't really buy it I guess. If he thought Trump is winning I'm quite convinced he would find 40 days of additional things to do in Gaza.
But hey maybe I'm wrong I don't know, maybe something happened and I missed it. Are all the hostages free, for example?
On October 02 2024 00:31 Nebuchad wrote: What reasoning are they giving for saying the first task finished?
No reasoning given, the task is unfinished. There are still many members of Hamas actively fighting and the hostages still aren't rescued, so the task hasn't been accomplished yet.
They're just changing their rhetoric to fit their true motive. Another threat must be fought so Netanyahu can stay in power.
The problem is that Israel is coming dangerously close to accomplishing the task in Gaza, therefore they have to start a war in Lebanon immediately. If they don't do that in time, they'll have to make efforts towards lasting peace, which could potentially result in Hezbollah reducing the aggression against Israel. If things were to unfold like this, Israel would have no clear reason to continue the war effort. It's an unacceptable scenario that can be safely prevented by invading Lebanon right now.
If I'm honest I just think this is because Biden is soon out and Benny is afraid Harris might win and not be as good for his plans. I understand Gors' objection that he has incentives on his own and that's what you're saying too, it doesn't need to be related to the election, but I don't really buy it I guess. If he thought Trump is winning I'm quite convinced he would find 40 days of additional things to do in Gaza.
But hey maybe I'm wrong I don't know, maybe something happened and I missed it. Are all the hostages free, for example?
Benny has 0 reason to truly believe Harris will be any less lenient than Biden...if her language on the campaign trail concerns him, I'd be surprised. It's clear she's trying to win key votes that Stein is currently siphoning and even in those attempts she's been unremarkably flimsy.
On September 28 2024 11:02 Husyelt wrote: Can Israel stop attacking its neighbors for a single day? Do we need a 300-1 kill to death ratio for civilians and terrorist? thought 50-1 was pretty bad already
Interesting take, as Hezbollah has been sending rockets at Israel almost daily for nearly a year now.
Whether or not you believe Hezbollah's intention or promise that "we will stop firing once you have a ceasefire in Gaza", Israel has also been doing the same to Hezbollah for the same duration, and from what I've read, far more damage output. Im certainly not a tankie or a far left progressive like Emma Vigeland who says "Houthis and Hezbollah are heroes and the resistance", but nothing justifies a 300-1 kill ratio for civilian to terrorist. or 50-1 in terms of confirmed kills in Gaza.
"A Waco a day, the IDF way"
Please provide evidence for that 300-1 kill ratio. Hamas and the Gazan ministry of health don't distinguish between civilian and militant casualties for propaganda reasons. Using confirmed kills is literally Hamas propaganda.
https://abcnews.go.com/International/number-children-missing-separated-families-gaza-high-21000/story?id=111365036 sure lets just go with children, and in June Nearly 15,000 children have been killed in the Israel-Hamas war, the UN says. Hamas killed 800 civilians on Oct 7, so even just children to total civilians is 18-1. Is that propaganda or just facts? And whats worse at this point, Israel's propaganda or Hamas? Which one brings more terror on the region and covers up for it? I think its clear the current government Israel and Hamas should be treated like we do Russia and Putin.
Israel literally doesnt allow journalists into Gaza to see the total death toll, right now its at 45,000, but the real number is likely 2-3x higher.
Your initial claim is that there's a 50-1 civilian to terrorist ratio. You have no evidence to back it up so now you're changing your argument to civilians killed in Israel relative to civilians killed in Gaza.
For Lebanon you don't even read your own source. The strikes were not for one person:
Analysts have called it the largest campaign of Israeli aerial strikes against Hezbollah, the Iran-backed Lebanese militia, since the 2006 Israel-Hezbollah war. .... The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
Strikes damaged several buildings inside populated areas in Lebanon's south as well as farther east in the country's Bekaa Valley, but at least one landed some 80 miles north of the border near the city of Byblos, according to Lebanon's state-run broadcaster. ... On Friday, an airstrike over the Lebanese capital city, Beirut, killed at least 50 Hezbollah fighters and civilians, including children. Israel's military said that the strike had targeted a senior Hezbollah commander.
What on earth are you talking about. The current death toll in Gaza is over 50,000. Hamas killed 800 civilians. Thats 50-1.
The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
yeah hes lying to you. spoiler alert, Isreal lies and refuses journalists in, or did you forget about that? have you ever looked at satellite images of Gaza or Lebanon post strikes? Its just obliteration. Its like Mariupolor or Bakhmut.
at the end of the day lets say the death counts of civilians and terrorists is split between our numbers. Israel has no post war plan for Gaza. it had none for 2006, and it has none for 2024. the occupation will continue until Hamas lashes out, and Israel will turn the civilian population to rubble until morale improves.
Reread your own initial post:
Can Israel stop attacking its neighbors for a single day? Do we need a 300-1 kill to death ratio for civilians and terrorist? thought 50-1 was pretty bad already
You were clearly talking about a civilian to terrorist death ratio. Especially in the context of the 300-1 number since that was the estimated number of deaths in the Nasrallah strike. Now you're changing it to something else again and it's not even a proper comparison. There are around 41500 fatalities according to Gaza health ministry. That includes Hamas militants yet you only use Israeli civilians.
The Israeli military spokesman, Rear Adm. Daniel Hagari, said Israeli forces struck 1,300 Hezbollah targets and destroyed cruise missiles, short-range rockets, attack drones and other weaponry.
yeah hes lying to you. spoiler alert, Isreal lies and refuses journalists in, or did you forget about that? have you ever looked at satellite images of Gaza or Lebanon post strikes? Its just obliteration. Its like Mariupolor or Bakhmut.
You're selectively quoting. Leaving it out makes no difference to the point I was making. Your own source shows that the airstrikes are in multiple parts of Lebanon with significant casualties for Hezbollah. As I pointed out earlier Israel has eliminated most Hezbollahs senior leadership in a week. It's clearly part of their strategy:
The IDF is conducting a decapitation campaign targeting senior Hezbollah leadership as part of its air campaign across Lebanon. This campaign could impact Hezbollah’s ability to effectively organize and direct its forces. The IDF reported that its September 24 airstrike which killed Hezbollah’s Rocket and Missile Unit Commander Ibrahim Muhammad Qabisi also killed Qabisi’s deputy Abbas Sharafeddine and a senior commander from Hezbollah’s missile division, Hussein Ezzeddine.[7] Ezzeddine was reportedly close to the former top Hezbollah commander Fuad Shukr, who Israel killed in late July.[8] The IDF has conducted several major airstrikes in recent days targeting senior Hezbollah commanders and their communication networks.[9] CTP-ISW noted that Israel detonating Hezbollah pagers and personal radios disrupted the group’s internal communications and may have prompted the group to begin using less secure methods of communication that Israel could then intercept and exploit.[10]
You're free to criticize Israel but at least stick to the facts.
edit: ofc im free to criticize Israel, thats the point. we criticize our allies when they do wrong. I love France maybe more than any other ally, but what they did in Algiers is an abomination. Israel is doing that on steroids.
If you think for a even a second that 41,000 Gazans (terrorist + civilians) killed is about right, I have some settlements to sell you in the West Bank. The real numbers are into the hundred thousand plus if Israel would allow actual journalists in.
If Oct the 7th went in a different direction, lets say the IDF was somewhat aware of what was going on, and during the fighting and chaos, dozens of Hamas groups got confused and went into Israel proper with the hostages. Into homes, hospitals, schools, industrial areas etc.
Do you think for a millisecond that they would have targeted those terrorists in a different manner than they have in Gaza?
They would have sent in special military operations, isolated them, and forced fight or surrender or be killed. But hostages and Hamas go back to Gaza?
lol bro we going to drop more bombs than the allies did on Dresden, cause fuck yeah we can. Hamas is even worse than Nazis, their civilian population deserves it. "Remember these are animals, less than humans. Hamas should not be dealt with with special ops, that may lead to more IDF soldier losses. no... no they need 7,000 2000 lb bombs on the entirety of Gaza. Does it matter that Hamas is .5% as powerful and dangerous as the Nazi empire? no. Please dont think about the scale of power here. hoo boy collective punishment sure looks so good on us. Are we 25 times as powerful as Hamas and Hezbollah combined? yes. but please consider how much they hate us. dont look at mathematical numbers and backed by the worlds superpower. Definitely dont do that. Otherwise we may look like we are the Occupiers illegally for 15+ years. Dont do that.
You're just throwing random numbers around at this point. Obviously Israel cars more about their own citizens than foreign citizens. One of the primary goals of the state is to protect your own.
On October 01 2024 06:04 pmp10 wrote: And another interesting thing to note: Bibi's political fortunes are recovering. If he scores more successes in Lebanon he might just get to stay at PM post. Quite the reverse from the time when everyone expected him to soon land in prison.
Mostly at the expense of Ben Gvir so it does not help him in new elections
followed by National Security Minister Itamar Ben Gvir’s Otzma Yehudit with six seats — a fall from nine in a Channel 12 poll 10 days ago.
His potential coalition is still far behind the opposition
But while Netanyahu’s Likud would be the largest party, his right-wing, religious bloc would only amount to 49 seats in the Knesset, compared to the Opposition’s 66, which would include Ra’am but not Hadash-Ta’al. Even without Ra’am, the bloc would still win a majority 61 seats in the 120-seat Knesset.
Yeah missiles and an attack on a train with 10 dead so far means this ship has officially sailed. This is a huge attack. The train attack as a cherry on top means the US is going to let Israel go full ass. I’ll be surprised if Khomeini is still alive in a week.
These are seemingly hitting Tel Aviv directly by the dozens. There's also reports of terror attacks on the ground. I suspect this will compel Israel to start carpet bombing Iran as a response
EPT
