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On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be
Here in Manchester I haven't seen a single person in the public use an FFP2 mask properly if they wear one (which is rare). They usually leave a massive gap around their nose. I find it hard to comprehend.
You can recycle the FFP2 masks safely for up to 5 times, IIRC. You need it to leave in air for 5-7 days. If there are viral particles on it, they're die on their own.
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On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be
b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit
I don't even know where to start?
+ Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: ![[image loading]](https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/images/e/e4/Packaging_waste_generated_by_packaging_material%2C_EU-27%2C_2008%E2%80%932018_%28kg_per_capita%292.png)
Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer.
Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one.
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On June 29 2021 21:17 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit I don't even know where to start? + Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer. Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one.
but most of packaging could be recycled?
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On June 29 2021 21:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2021 21:17 Artisreal wrote:On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit I don't even know where to start? + Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer. Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one. but most of packaging could be recycled?
I think that in this case, the environmental concern is a smokescreen. I would be very surprised if the people who care so very much about the environmental impact in this case actually care about the environmental impact in any other situation.
If you really want to produce less waste, medical equipment during a pandemic is not where you should start. Buying less stuff in plastic packing would be the main thing to do.
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On June 29 2021 21:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2021 21:17 Artisreal wrote:On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit I don't even know where to start? + Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer. Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one. but most of packaging could be recycled?
When it comes to paper and cardboard, they can, but the quality significantly degrade for each recycle. The amount of waste and energy that goes into producing paper/cardboard is not insignificant (e.g. in Nordic countries you need to use a non-colored/-bleached paper bag 40-50 times before it have less climate footprint than a plastic bag).
EDIT: Just commenting regarding about waste recycling and lifetime impact, personally I don't think the waste from face mask is a significant issue compared to e.g. what we put into our grocery bags.
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Yes, I would not use the environmental concerns as a main argument, and it is certainly a much smaller concern than Covid itself, but the number of masks thrown out is reaching billions, so I would not say it is completely irrelevant. Throwing them out is important, they are gross and birds can be trapped in them.
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On June 29 2021 21:56 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2021 21:17 Artisreal wrote:On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit I don't even know where to start? + Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer. Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one. but most of packaging could be recycled?
I wasnt really going to argue with you about such a stupid point.
But I did point that out in my spoilered part.
the point made right after your post is also my essence.
the environmental impact of masks is negligible in the context of our world.
unless you go 4D madman to try and "prove" your point. but to me this is never about saving the environment but about finding a straw to hold on to with the goal of discrediting mask wearing.
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On June 30 2021 19:19 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2021 21:56 sharkie wrote:On June 29 2021 21:17 Artisreal wrote:On June 29 2021 16:37 sharkie wrote:
Forced use of FFP2 masks by the general public was one of the most stupid things done because literally I dont know a single person who used them as they should have(max. 4-6? hours, change after use, change after getting wet, etc...)
Also I dont blame anyone who hasnt followed that because that would have been creating tons of waste which is prolly worse than covid could ever be b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b-b bullshit I don't even know where to start? + Show Spoiler [some maths why this is bullshit] +How many masks weigh as much as a simple cardboard package? 20 FFP2 masks are 204g --> 10.2g per Mask including packaging. I just weighed that by the by. you need like 2 masks per day on average (lockdown after all). 12 months worth of masks: 365*2 = 730 masks => 730*10.2g = 7,446g = 7.5 kg I weighed an empty package I had laying around. 240g. That means as soon as anyone ordered online roughly 32 times due to the pandemic, masks will generate less waste than normal packaging. not factoring recycling, different materials, yadda yadda. And I weighed a small package, if you order a bike or TV online, something with lots of styrofoam, there goes your mask allowance. I have a handy graphic for you too: Unless anyone is an eco fascist and welcomes the reduction of the population to save the planet - which I'm explicitly not saying you are - generating a bit of plastic waste to save lifes is a no brainer. Of course there can be a nuanced argument about mask mandates, but stating the for the sake of the environment we should let a pandemic run its course unmitigated is one hot take if I ever read one. but most of packaging could be recycled? I wasnt really going to argue with you about such a stupid point. But I did point that out in my spoilered part. the point made right after your post is also my essence. the environmental impact of masks is negligible in the context of our world. unless you go 4D madman to try and "prove" your point. but to me this is never about saving the environment but about finding a straw to hold on to with the goal of discrediting mask wearing.
I liked the cloth masks. I could wash them, have nice motifs. Ffp2 are just horrible for normal people
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What countries - aside Germany - had FFP2 as mandatory?
So I don't think, that they make a big "dent" in the environment!
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Apparently almost 2k (probably more to come) people from Scotland that traveled to England (2/3 of that because of the EURO) got the Coronavirus, which was fucking obvious to be honest after the several hundred cases from Finland fans that traveled to St. Petersburg. Both of these countries have hugely rising numbers. England has pretty good numbers of vaccinations I think, but probably not among the younger population? Also two shots are required for decent safety against the delta variant from what I read.
Gonna be a couple thousand after every game in those countries I think, so yeah I agree with Karl Lauterbach (german politician) saying that the UEFA is killing tons of people by allowing such a huge amount of fans in the stadia.
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On July 01 2021 07:04 HolydaKing wrote:
Apparently almost 2k (probably more to come) people from Scotland that traveled to England (2/3 of that because of the EURO) got the Coronavirus, which was fucking obvious to be honest after the several hundred cases from Finland fans that traveled to St. Petersburg. Both of these countries have hugely rising numbers. England has pretty good numbers of vaccinations I think, but probably not among the younger population? Also two shots are required for decent safety against the delta variant from what I read.
Gonna be a couple thousand after every game in those countries I think, so yeah I agree with Karl Lauterbach (german politician) saying that the UEFA is killing tons of people by allowing such a huge amount of fans in the stadia. Business will do what businesses do, make as much $$ as they can get away with.
If governments don't like it they need to act themselves, like mandatory testing for anyone coming back. (obv harder for a land border like England/Scotland but much easier when its by plane.
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On July 01 2021 07:12 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2021 07:04 HolydaKing wrote:
Apparently almost 2k (probably more to come) people from Scotland that traveled to England (2/3 of that because of the EURO) got the Coronavirus, which was fucking obvious to be honest after the several hundred cases from Finland fans that traveled to St. Petersburg. Both of these countries have hugely rising numbers. England has pretty good numbers of vaccinations I think, but probably not among the younger population? Also two shots are required for decent safety against the delta variant from what I read.
Gonna be a couple thousand after every game in those countries I think, so yeah I agree with Karl Lauterbach (german politician) saying that the UEFA is killing tons of people by allowing such a huge amount of fans in the stadia. Business will do what businesses do, make as much $$ as they can get away with. If governments don't like it they need to act themselves, like mandatory testing for anyone coming back. (obv harder for a land border like England/Scotland but much easier when its by plane.
2 weeks quarantine is the only way really, as shitty as it is. Tests don't do much since you can get Corona and not test positive for a couple of days.
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On July 01 2021 07:20 HolydaKing wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2021 07:12 Gorsameth wrote:On July 01 2021 07:04 HolydaKing wrote:
Apparently almost 2k (probably more to come) people from Scotland that traveled to England (2/3 of that because of the EURO) got the Coronavirus, which was fucking obvious to be honest after the several hundred cases from Finland fans that traveled to St. Petersburg. Both of these countries have hugely rising numbers. England has pretty good numbers of vaccinations I think, but probably not among the younger population? Also two shots are required for decent safety against the delta variant from what I read.
Gonna be a couple thousand after every game in those countries I think, so yeah I agree with Karl Lauterbach (german politician) saying that the UEFA is killing tons of people by allowing such a huge amount of fans in the stadia. Business will do what businesses do, make as much $$ as they can get away with. If governments don't like it they need to act themselves, like mandatory testing for anyone coming back. (obv harder for a land border like England/Scotland but much easier when its by plane. 2 weeks quarantine is the only way really, as shitty as it is. Tests don't do much since you can get Corona and not test positive for a couple of days.
He still has a point though. Yes, Uefa is to blame but they can only do it because the government does not put a stop to it.
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On July 01 2021 01:14 Geisterkarle wrote:
What countries - aside Germany - had FFP2 as mandatory?
So I don't think, that they make a big "dent" in the environment!
Germanys stupid little brother and the reason i am so upset about it
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On July 01 2021 13:59 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2021 01:14 Geisterkarle wrote:
What countries - aside Germany - had FFP2 as mandatory?
So I don't think, that they make a big "dent" in the environment! Germanys stupid little brother and the reason i am so upset about it
Oh, you do!? Sorry, didn't know... so far for interest in the little brother 
About the football:
As far as I know, England wanted to decrease or even ban spectators for the games to come. And UEFA said: "Oh? No spectators? Well, we will take those games then and they play in ... let's say Hungary...!?" And we all know there is much money involved, so England buckled down...
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The delta way is coming to Europe, mostly among people ages 12-30.
I have 2 questions. Are the vaccines are enough to avoid a dramatic situation?
Secondly, is the priority of vaccines was the correct one, and if it makes sense to give it to the 18-30 group before the 30-40 group and maybe even 40-50? Also, the benefit of going after more likely spreaders instead of the very oldest would have really kicked in now.
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Considering almost nobody aged 12-30 dies of covid19 and people who are double vaccinated are well protected I doubt it will be much of an issue. Maybe for a month or two untill the vaccinations are done.
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EPT
