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On April 18 2025 08:56 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 18 2025 07:54 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 18 2025 07:38 Mohdoo wrote:Its hard to see this as anything other than an unhinged power play to assert dominance over the courts. 21 year old born in the US, with birth certificate already presented in court. Still being held. Lopez Gomez, 21, was born in Georgia. According to court records, he has been assigned a judge as well as a public defender. He appears to have been arrested and charged under an “anti-immigration” law passed in Florida two months ago, despite the fact that the law is currently under a temporary restraining order and isn’t supposed to be enforced.
https://newrepublic.com/post/194119/ice-detains-us-born-citizen-despite-birth-certificate Feel like this has fresh relevance Just so people know, I'll be understandably disappointed if you do anything less than whatever is necessary to get me/my loved one out. I'll be more happy than not if you at least muster a general strike though. Still open to ideas, but doing nothing/pissing away this moment is unconscionable to me. Just to be clear, your frustration and resentment is justified. That being said, you gotta give people time to internalize stuff like this. Even for those of us who predicted it would eventually reach the point where showing a judge your birth certificate isn’t enough to be released from ICE, this is such a gigantic escalation people aren’t going to even really be able to swallow it right away. People need more than an hour to sort through what this means to them. Even if people agree with you next week, expecting them to agree with you right now lacks compassion and understanding. I myself am just kinda sitting here reassuring myself I’m not in immediate danger because my mom is white as a ghost and born in Oregon. Time to grow my hair out and avoid my tan getting any darker than it already is.
I mean this with all due respect (and please correct me if I'm wrong, I've misread you before), but your plan is essentially to lay low, vote blue no matter who (EDIT: I remembered you didn't plan on voting for Democrats), then ride it out by throwing other people on the track ahead of you, until you ultimately abandon them completely and flee to save yourself.
I see that's essentially everyone's plan here that isn't embracing the first general strike I mentioned, the effort here to develop a general strike we could support, LibHorizon's plan, and/or showing us their alternative plan.
What's especially sulky is that planning on running if/when you personally feel threatened doesn't preclude everyone from supporting the general strikes, LibHorizon's plan, and/or describing their own alternative for what to do before fleeing (I don't believe fleeing is a viable long term strategy in a globalized world anyway).
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On April 20 2025 05:53 Zambrah wrote:Show nested quote +On April 19 2025 22:59 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 19 2025 22:41 WombaT wrote:
What’s the given rationale here? At least with the other cuts they’re ’justified’ as being anti-brainwashing or whatever Education = liberal indoctrination at all levels, might as well include preschool, I guess. Plus, it disproportionately hurts the poor and is irrelevant to the rich, which is always preferable for Trump. Gotta get em employed while their hands are still good and small for reaching into small dangerous crevices. Preschool would detract from that!
Oh man x.x In before Trump redefines "child labor law" as "the law says we must have child labor".
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line
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On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line
bolded - Or realising that your voting decision is as impactful, as was for native Americans choosing side in civil war, or American revolution.
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
On April 20 2025 19:59 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line bolded - Or realising that your voting decision is as impactful, as was for native Americans choosing side in civil war, or American revolution.
It depends what you want in a vote. You’re very restricted if your politics align with what I’d like to see and your power to effect that change within the current frameworks.
However if one of your goals is merely to at least delay handing the country to overt Fascists, that option was absolutely on the table.
Myself I don’t have a huge amount of faith in the populace of the States, or indeed my own country jumping on things like a general strike to defang such a process, apathy is a thing, people being a pay check or two from being homeless is also a thing.
That being the case IMO, winning the election is your best sluice valve, because there’s not a great plan B there.
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On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line
They could have, but didn't.
I didn't/don't advocate against voting.
My work towards revolutionary action isn't because of some fighting fantasy. If I believed there was any other option (and I've been pretty fervently asking anyone here to show me one to no avail) I'd certainly be interested. My pursuit of revolutionary action is because I truly believe, based on the evidence, that it is our only viable (albeit far from certain to bring success) option for the US.
If anyone is going to disagree, they are going to have to "show their work" so to speak.
+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 11:52 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 06:39 Belisarius wrote:
All of which is why the voting rights bill was so important. If the US is a full neofascist state in 12 years time with a 43% R popular vote, I think this year will go down as the last chance you had to hit the brakes.
Gerrymandering is just so unbelievably poisonous to democracy. To stop it, you have to overtake it. Biden came alongside, but then he chickened out and let two random senators decide the trajectory of the next 20 years.
The R's now seem free to accelerate into the distance, limited only by the sheer incompetence of the candidates they're cheating into office. Does a voting rights bill fix it? The nature of US politics is that Republicans will inevitably be back in power sooner or later, and so far they don’t seem to face any penalty in public opinion to openly despising rule of law and aspiring to violent takeovers. Gerrymandering is fucked but it’s a pretty slow way to seize power compared to, you know, just doing it. I mean, GH pointed out that “we need the Republican Party actually” is ridiculous for a Democrat to think. Which seems right to me. Nothing about the modern Republican Party seems capable of becoming compatible with democracy, let alone interested in doing so, and the public seems apathetic at best. Gorsameth pointed out we need two parties in our system, which seems right to me too. What disturbs me is that “the Republican Party is irredeemable and cannot realistically be reformed or replaced” and “our system cannot function without 2 parties” aren’t incompatible statements, but the implication of both being true is catastrophic. It feels like we’re all doing the math on our current velocity toward the cliff and distance from it and maximum braking force, but the math isn’t actually very hard. We just keep recalculating because the result we keep getting is unfathomable. Which got updated a bit later with something else I've been thinking about even more: If your math is coming out differently I’d love if you’d show your work. EDIT: I'd rather there not be a fascist speedrunning us toward WW3 though if that wasn't obvious.
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On April 21 2025 00:10 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line They could have, but didn't. I didn't/don't advocate against voting. My work towards revolutionary action isn't because of some fighting fantasy. If I believed there was any other option (and I've been pretty fervently asking anyone here to show me one to no avail) I'd certainly be interested. My pursuit of revolutionary action is because I truly believe, based on the evidence, that it is our only viable (albeit far from certain to bring success) option for the US. If anyone is going to disagree, they are going to have to " show their work" so to speak. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 11:52 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 06:39 Belisarius wrote:
All of which is why the voting rights bill was so important. If the US is a full neofascist state in 12 years time with a 43% R popular vote, I think this year will go down as the last chance you had to hit the brakes.
Gerrymandering is just so unbelievably poisonous to democracy. To stop it, you have to overtake it. Biden came alongside, but then he chickened out and let two random senators decide the trajectory of the next 20 years.
The R's now seem free to accelerate into the distance, limited only by the sheer incompetence of the candidates they're cheating into office. Does a voting rights bill fix it? The nature of US politics is that Republicans will inevitably be back in power sooner or later, and so far they don’t seem to face any penalty in public opinion to openly despising rule of law and aspiring to violent takeovers. Gerrymandering is fucked but it’s a pretty slow way to seize power compared to, you know, just doing it. I mean, GH pointed out that “we need the Republican Party actually” is ridiculous for a Democrat to think. Which seems right to me. Nothing about the modern Republican Party seems capable of becoming compatible with democracy, let alone interested in doing so, and the public seems apathetic at best. Gorsameth pointed out we need two parties in our system, which seems right to me too. What disturbs me is that “the Republican Party is irredeemable and cannot realistically be reformed or replaced” and “our system cannot function without 2 parties” aren’t incompatible statements, but the implication of both being true is catastrophic. It feels like we’re all doing the math on our current velocity toward the cliff and distance from it and maximum braking force, but the math isn’t actually very hard. We just keep recalculating because the result we keep getting is unfathomable. Which got updated a bit later with something else I've been thinking about even more: If your math is coming out differently I’d love if you’d show your work. EDIT: I'd rather there not be a fascist speedrunning us toward WW3 though if that wasn't obvious.
You might not have explicitly told people not to go out and vote, but you made the point (repeatedly) that anyone voting dem was a genocide supporter which more or less results in the same outcome.
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On April 21 2025 00:15 EnDeR_ wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2025 00:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line They could have, but didn't. I didn't/don't advocate against voting. My work towards revolutionary action isn't because of some fighting fantasy. If I believed there was any other option (and I've been pretty fervently asking anyone here to show me one to no avail) I'd certainly be interested. My pursuit of revolutionary action is because I truly believe, based on the evidence, that it is our only viable (albeit far from certain to bring success) option for the US. If anyone is going to disagree, they are going to have to " show their work" so to speak. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 11:52 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 06:39 Belisarius wrote:
All of which is why the voting rights bill was so important. If the US is a full neofascist state in 12 years time with a 43% R popular vote, I think this year will go down as the last chance you had to hit the brakes.
Gerrymandering is just so unbelievably poisonous to democracy. To stop it, you have to overtake it. Biden came alongside, but then he chickened out and let two random senators decide the trajectory of the next 20 years.
The R's now seem free to accelerate into the distance, limited only by the sheer incompetence of the candidates they're cheating into office. Does a voting rights bill fix it? The nature of US politics is that Republicans will inevitably be back in power sooner or later, and so far they don’t seem to face any penalty in public opinion to openly despising rule of law and aspiring to violent takeovers. Gerrymandering is fucked but it’s a pretty slow way to seize power compared to, you know, just doing it. I mean, GH pointed out that “we need the Republican Party actually” is ridiculous for a Democrat to think. Which seems right to me. Nothing about the modern Republican Party seems capable of becoming compatible with democracy, let alone interested in doing so, and the public seems apathetic at best. Gorsameth pointed out we need two parties in our system, which seems right to me too. What disturbs me is that “the Republican Party is irredeemable and cannot realistically be reformed or replaced” and “our system cannot function without 2 parties” aren’t incompatible statements, but the implication of both being true is catastrophic. It feels like we’re all doing the math on our current velocity toward the cliff and distance from it and maximum braking force, but the math isn’t actually very hard. We just keep recalculating because the result we keep getting is unfathomable. Which got updated a bit later with something else I've been thinking about even more: If your math is coming out differently I’d love if you’d show your work. EDIT: I'd rather there not be a fascist speedrunning us toward WW3 though if that wasn't obvious. You might not have explicitly told people not to go out and vote, but you made the point (repeatedly) that anyone voting dem was a genocide supporter which more or less results in the same outcome.
No one believes my posts here changed anyone's vote. (maybe mohdoos?)
That people voting for Democrats were providing material support for the aiding and abetting of genocide (or ethnic cleansing if one insists) is a matter of fact.
What I was advocating, was for the people that planned on voting for Democrats to at least TRY to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide if those Democrats wanted their votes. I did it so they could get more votes from the ~61% of voters that opposed them continuing (pg 6.). Instead they raged at and tried to shame anyone that did that while insisting on aiding abetting genocide, then lost.
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On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line
But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy.
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On April 21 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy.
This is so pathetic.
I've never been shy about plenty more than their aiding and abetting of genocide preventing me from voting for Democrats (perpetuating slavery being one among many). I wouldn't be moving any goalposts.
You can extract any morality from my arguments about Democrats opposing voters and they are still valid electorally and as realpolitik.
Just stick to your petulant mocking and gawking at Republicans if you're going to continue to refuse to contribute constructively/meaningfully to any efforts to oppose the Trump administration's fascist agenda. Which I'm sure the fascists appreciate.
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Interestingly enough, even Republican leaders are now disagreeing with Trump's desire to kidnap Americans and send them to foreign prisons:
"GOP Sen. John Kennedy says Trump administration should not send Americans to foreign prisons
Sen. John Kennedy, R-La., pushed back Sunday on President Donald Trump’s expressed interest in sending U.S. citizens who commit crimes to prisons abroad.
Asked on NBC News’ “Meet the Press” if he believes the law allows Trump to send domestic criminals to foreign prisons, Kennedy said, “No, Ma’am,” adding: “We have our own laws. We have the Eighth Amendment to the Constitution. We shouldn’t send prisoners to foreign countries, in my judgment.”
His remarks come after Trump told Fox News on Tuesday that his administration is “looking into” the possibility of sending what he called “homegrown criminals” to foreign prisons."
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna202026
That being said, I can't see Congressional Republicans risking their political futures by impeaching and removing Trump from office. I think they're just hoping that Trump changes his mind about wanting to run for a third term, so that they can wait him out and not need to say/do anything that would anger the MAGA Republicans.
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On April 21 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy.
I'm not a fan of that strategy and argued with him about it before the election but that's all in the past, we can't redo the election.
Gotta stop in-fighting over small differences. People have to put their egos and points-scoring aside and contribute to opposing this assault on reason in whichever way they can. Not everyone has personal circumstances that permit them to strike, or be defiant at work or join protests, but the very least that can be done is not dragging each-other down.
PS: This is more of a general sentiment rather than aimed at you specifically.
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On April 21 2025 00:35 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2025 00:15 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 21 2025 00:10 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line They could have, but didn't. I didn't/don't advocate against voting. My work towards revolutionary action isn't because of some fighting fantasy. If I believed there was any other option (and I've been pretty fervently asking anyone here to show me one to no avail) I'd certainly be interested. My pursuit of revolutionary action is because I truly believe, based on the evidence, that it is our only viable (albeit far from certain to bring success) option for the US. If anyone is going to disagree, they are going to have to " show their work" so to speak. + Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 11:52 ChristianS wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On September 26 2021 06:39 Belisarius wrote:
All of which is why the voting rights bill was so important. If the US is a full neofascist state in 12 years time with a 43% R popular vote, I think this year will go down as the last chance you had to hit the brakes.
Gerrymandering is just so unbelievably poisonous to democracy. To stop it, you have to overtake it. Biden came alongside, but then he chickened out and let two random senators decide the trajectory of the next 20 years.
The R's now seem free to accelerate into the distance, limited only by the sheer incompetence of the candidates they're cheating into office. Does a voting rights bill fix it? The nature of US politics is that Republicans will inevitably be back in power sooner or later, and so far they don’t seem to face any penalty in public opinion to openly despising rule of law and aspiring to violent takeovers. Gerrymandering is fucked but it’s a pretty slow way to seize power compared to, you know, just doing it. I mean, GH pointed out that “we need the Republican Party actually” is ridiculous for a Democrat to think. Which seems right to me. Nothing about the modern Republican Party seems capable of becoming compatible with democracy, let alone interested in doing so, and the public seems apathetic at best. Gorsameth pointed out we need two parties in our system, which seems right to me too. What disturbs me is that “the Republican Party is irredeemable and cannot realistically be reformed or replaced” and “our system cannot function without 2 parties” aren’t incompatible statements, but the implication of both being true is catastrophic. It feels like we’re all doing the math on our current velocity toward the cliff and distance from it and maximum braking force, but the math isn’t actually very hard. We just keep recalculating because the result we keep getting is unfathomable. Which got updated a bit later with something else I've been thinking about even more: If your math is coming out differently I’d love if you’d show your work. EDIT: I'd rather there not be a fascist speedrunning us toward WW3 though if that wasn't obvious. You might not have explicitly told people not to go out and vote, but you made the point (repeatedly) that anyone voting dem was a genocide supporter which more or less results in the same outcome. No one believes my posts here changed anyone's vote. (maybe mohdoos?) That people voting for Democrats were providing material support for the aiding and abetting of genocide (or ethnic cleansing if one insists) is a matter of fact. What I was advocating, was for the people that planned on voting for Democrats to at least TRY to get Democrats to stop aiding and abetting genocide if those Democrats wanted their votes. I did it so they could get more votes from the ~61% of voters that opposed them continuing (pg 6.). Instead they raged at and tried to shame anyone that did that while insisting on aiding abetting genocide, then lost.
Oh word? You did it so the Dems could get more votes? Here I thought you were a revolutionary socialist and it turns out you're just a poser trying to win votes for the Dems.
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On April 21 2025 02:14 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy. I'm not a fan of that strategy and argued with him about it before the election but that's all in the past, we can't redo the election. Gotta stop in-fighting over small differences. People have to put their egos and points-scoring aside and contribute to opposing this assault on reason in whichever way they can. Not everyone has personal circumstances that permit them to strike, or be defiant at work or join protests, but the very least that can be done is not dragging each-other down. PS: This is more of a general sentiment rather than aimed at you specifically.
Good sentiment here. It just looks and feels incredibly stupid altogether, international politics that is. Stupid and also dangerous for individuals who pose little threat, like Garcia.
A lot of the issues straight up moved to the information dimension, often politicized or privately owned. The Pravda were the news of the Soviets, meaning ‚The truth‘.
Edited out because I struggled to find the source.
The US is going to acknowledge a part of the invaded territory as Russian and that‘s an indicator that it has become an untrustworthy partner for guarantees. This side of the Atlantic.
Baltics and Finland are updating their security policy to include landmines.
+ Show Spoiler +https://orf.at/stories/3389393/
Imho, the US will struggle a lot with power grab attempts from disproportionately wealthy people while having the issue of being shunned for its erratic diplomacy on the international level. But Reps firmly believe it can survive on its own.
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On April 21 2025 02:14 Dan HH wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy. I'm not a fan of that strategy and argued with him about it before the election but that's all in the past, we can't redo the election. Gotta stop in-fighting over small differences. People have to put their egos and points-scoring aside and contribute to opposing this assault on reason in whichever way they can. Not everyone has personal circumstances that permit them to strike, or be defiant at work or join protests, but the very least that can be done is not dragging each-other down. PS: This is more of a general sentiment rather than aimed at you specifically.
Those are good points, and I definitely agree. It's just annoying and exhausting when every other post from GH is antagonistic and hypocritically criticizing others for never doing enough, which leads to others/me occasionally firing back at him and having conversations further derailed. We all occasionally fall into his trap, even as he ironically tells us not to fall into oBlade's trap.
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On April 20 2025 21:47 WombaT wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 19:59 Razyda wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line bolded - Or realising that your voting decision is as impactful, as was for native Americans choosing side in civil war, or American revolution. It depends what you want in a vote. You’re very restricted if your politics align with what I’d like to see and your power to effect that change within the current frameworks. However if one of your goals is merely to at least delay handing the country to overt Fascists, that option was absolutely on the table. Myself I don’t have a huge amount of faith in the populace of the States, or indeed my own country jumping on things like a general strike to defang such a process, apathy is a thing, people being a pay check or two from being homeless is also a thing. That being the case IMO, winning the election is your best sluice valve, because there’s not a great plan B there.
Bolded - no, not really. Pretty much every government is on the path to evolve into totalitarian one, all your vote changes is under which banner you get there.
Italic - This is the thing, you got focused on fancy words like fascists, that you didnt realise that they eventually didnt matter once government established its power. There is no such thing as right authoritarian government, or left authoritarian government, there is only authoritarian government. Doesnt matter what you label it, end result is you dont have any rights, even if some are written down for funsies. So if your goal was to avoid totalitarian government then that option wasnt on the table, if your goal was to delay it, then it was on the table, but it wasnt Kamala.
Bolded 2 - General strike wont work by itself, all it can do it may be a turning point, at worst it get stomped by government effectively speedrunning into totalitarianism, at best it evolve into only thing which may work. Out of curiosity: which condition you think give a general strike bigger chance to succeed, one where you have access to millions of cheap workers willing to do any job, or the one where you dont?
Italic 2 - if that is from perspective of the voter, then I think you misunderstood word "winning". If you have 2 parties x and y, and you think they are both bad, however decided to vote for x which happens to win election, then you didnt "win" anything, party x won, you got nothing.
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Northern Ireland25995 Posts
On April 21 2025 09:12 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 20 2025 21:47 WombaT wrote:On April 20 2025 19:59 Razyda wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line bolded - Or realising that your voting decision is as impactful, as was for native Americans choosing side in civil war, or American revolution. It depends what you want in a vote. You’re very restricted if your politics align with what I’d like to see and your power to effect that change within the current frameworks. However if one of your goals is merely to at least delay handing the country to overt Fascists, that option was absolutely on the table. Myself I don’t have a huge amount of faith in the populace of the States, or indeed my own country jumping on things like a general strike to defang such a process, apathy is a thing, people being a pay check or two from being homeless is also a thing. That being the case IMO, winning the election is your best sluice valve, because there’s not a great plan B there. Bolded - no, not really. Pretty much every government is on the path to evolve into totalitarian one, all your vote changes is under which banner you get there. Italic - This is the thing, you got focused on fancy words like fascists, that you didnt realise that they eventually didnt matter once government established its power. There is no such thing as right authoritarian government, or left authoritarian government, there is only authoritarian government. Doesnt matter what you label it, end result is you dont have any rights, even if some are written down for funsies. So if your goal was to avoid totalitarian government then that option wasnt on the table, if your goal was to delay it, then it was on the table, but it wasnt Kamala. Bolded 2 - General strike wont work by itself, all it can do it may be a turning point, at worst it get stomped by government effectively speedrunning into totalitarianism, at best it evolve into only thing which may work. Out of curiosity: which condition you think give a general strike bigger chance to succeed, one where you have access to millions of cheap workers willing to do any job, or the one where you dont? Italic 2 - if that is from perspective of the voter, then I think you misunderstood word "winning". If you have 2 parties x and y, and you think they are both bad, however decided to vote for x which happens to win election, then you didnt "win" anything, party x won, you got nothing.
It’s not a ‘fancy word’ it’s a well-defined descriptive one, and chosen deliberately.
I have longed despised the British Conservative Party for example, but it’s never been a descriptor I’d employ there because the glove doesn’t fit.
Contextually, I’m not defending the system as it were, nor the particular ‘virtues’ of the Democratic Party, both things I’ve a long history of being critical of. My point was merely that voting was by far the easiest way to keep Trump out of power. Not doing so and relying on people doing things that are much harder to subsequently was my point.
It’s certainly not a magic wand.
As per your question, you don’t have millions of workers who can just do specialised technical work at the drop of a hat, so I don’t think that’s super relevant here.
I don’t think there’s some magical formula for such things, but a country that’s ballpark split 50/50, without a huge recent history of such a thing wouldn’t be where I’d stick my money
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This guy is a mess and cannot be trusted:
"Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth shared details about impending U.S. airstrikes in Yemen with a private Signal group that included his wife, brother, and personal attorney, according to sources familiar with the messages.
The messages, sent on March 15, included flight schedules for F/A-18 Hornets tasked with striking Houthi targets, the sources said. The messages were sent the same day Hegseth shared similar operational details in a separate Signal chat that inadvertently included The Atlantic editor-in-chief Jeffrey Goldberg, sparking widespread concern over how senior officials handle sensitive military information."
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsnews.com/amp/news/pete-hegseth-yemen-strike-2nd-signal-chat/
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On April 21 2025 07:51 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 21 2025 02:14 Dan HH wrote:On April 21 2025 00:53 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Not doing that and constantly advocating against such poxy things as voting and instead hoping for some genuinely revolutionary pushback down the line is turning down some decent looking lass in your local bar because you’re convinced Cindy Crawford will be expressive to one’s interest down the line But gosh, why advocate for voting when it's sooo much simpler to advocate for the impossible while feigning a moral highground? I suspect that even if Harris was saying and willing to do everything right in the name of Palestinians, the goalposts would have been moved by our favorite virtue signaler to some other non-negotiable reason to refuse her non-socialist candidacy. I'm not a fan of that strategy and argued with him about it before the election but that's all in the past, we can't redo the election. Gotta stop in-fighting over small differences. People have to put their egos and points-scoring aside and contribute to opposing this assault on reason in whichever way they can. Not everyone has personal circumstances that permit them to strike, or be defiant at work or join protests, but the very least that can be done is not dragging each-other down. PS: This is more of a general sentiment rather than aimed at you specifically. Those are good points, and I definitely agree. It's just annoying and exhausting when every other post from GH is antagonistic and hypocritically criticizing others for never doing enough, which leads to others/me occasionally firing back at him and having conversations further derailed. We all occasionally fall into his trap, even as he ironically tells us not to fall into oBlade's trap.
Discussing the electoral future of Democrats isn't a trap.
That no one here has a better plan than me for Democrats to win electorally is shameful/embarrassing/catastrophic for you all (as people that advocate electoralism), but strictly a matter of fact as it stands currently.
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On April 20 2025 11:31 WombaT wrote:
I dunno maybe folks coulda just like, voted to keep Trump out? Hey I’m just some neophyte rube from across the Atlantic or whatever.
Thing is, we did fine under Trump the first time. However, on this board the sky is always falling. This comes from a mindset behind the reaction to the "War of the Worlds" radio show broadcast in 1938. From nuclear wars, to incurring too much government debt, to abandoning conscription, to aids to global warming to Trump. The USA has been an eyelash away from total destruction since 1938. The reaction of the general public to that 1938 War of the World's broadcast indicates it has had an innate appetite for the impending apocalypse. This forum board is another extension of that 90 year trend. People want an impending apocalypse... so they see it around every corner. Simultaneously, they do not plan around it. Its been the end of the world since 2014 because of Trump and yet no one is doing anything about it. In fact, Canadians and Mexicans are pouring into the country.
+ Show Spoiler + A significant number of Canadians also emigrated to the U.S. in 2022, with 126,340 individuals making the move, a 70% increase compared to 2012
These people all knew a Republican presidential term with Trump is possible and they moved away from Canada any way.
let me give you a view on the street...
+ Show Spoiler + my wife and i had a pool installed in the house we own in Stafford, Virginia. During Trump's first term, she bought it in 2015 @ $199,000 at an interest rate of 1.99%. She carried the house on her own income as a 24 year old knowing Trump would be in power for the toughest part of the house owning process. Most of her classmates from her non-Ivy League, above average but not spectacular MBA program bought a house before age 28 from 2015 to 2018 during Trump's term in office. During that time if you go back to the comments in here you would think the sky was falling the way the posters in here communicate. Skilled Labour Makes $150/Hour ... CashThis small house 50 minutes outside of Washington DC is an income property for us now. We put a pool in it this month. Several different Pool companies wanted $25,000 for installation their lowest level pool. We, mainly my wife, got it done for under $5,000 while paying the skilled tradesmen construction guys $150 USD per hour cash under the table.. The big fancy pool companies wanted 2 weeks to install it. Our 2 plumber/electrician guys installed it in a day and it included a 30 meter gravel walk way... steps... all kinds of great convenient stuff around the pool itself. They did a great job stabilizing the ground under the pool. We snagged the pool at Walmart for $500. After the installation was over I talked to the 2 mexican guys whom I met through one of my niece's ex bfs. We are happy here. It seems immigrants who come from Canada and Mexico think the USA is solid. Mexicans and Canadian immigrants love America more than Americans. And the USA's leaders know it. They know they can always bring in fresh talent from North and South of the border. American workers are lazy dawg. LAZYThese 2 pretty highly skilled tradesmen worked pretty hard during an 11 hour day and went home with over $3000 cash. $3000 cash in one day. The pool company wanted $25,000. They got paid in cash by a lazy guy who has been living off of a language compiler he built in 2006 as the final course project for 2 university half credit compiler construction courses. "the money is out there gentlemen, you pick up it yours, you don't i got no sympathy for you" Hopefully, you understand why so many Canadians leave a G7 country to come to the USA. I consider it a privilege to live in the USA and so do the 2 Mexican skilled labourers I hung out with this weekend. We laugh at Americans who think the economy is bad.
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EPT
