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On March 04 2025 11:14 Zambrah wrote:
Hasan is a leftie twitch streamer, hes not a tankie
Sorry but if you say "Russia can't annex a country it already owns" with regard to Ukraine, when you say that China's dealing with Tibet and Taiwan is like "the American federal government going to the fucking south and killing unfortunately not all of them but a decent amount of slavers and defenders of slavery", you are close enough to a tankie that you may be called one.
On March 04 2025 11:14 Zambrah wrote:
EDIT: Also, for funsies, Destiny the former SC2 player is also a political/debatelord streamer type, apparently hes a sex pest lol
Maybe you thought I was a Destiny fan because I invoked Hasan lol, but nah Destiny indeed seems trash in this regard, the only extended amount of Destiny I've listened to is him trying to tell Avilo to stop being a stalker because SC drama is more interesting to me than politics, heh.
Hasan using brothels, literally buying access to working class bodies with Twitch money, sure makes me side-eye though.
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On March 04 2025 09:41 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2025 08:29 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 24 2025 07:17 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 24 2025 07:00 micronesia wrote:On February 24 2025 05:51 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 24 2025 04:02 micronesia wrote:On February 24 2025 03:15 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 24 2025 02:03 micronesia wrote:On February 24 2025 01:24 GreenHorizons wrote:On February 24 2025 01:14 micronesia wrote:
[quote]
I didn't even get this opm e-mail so it's currently a moot point, but...
You are asking if I would refuse to follow a legal order (i.e., send a bulleted list of accomplishments to opm) from my actual chain of command because of the ramifications of it? Probably not. LibHorizons: In that case, I'd imagine most people/departments will end up being complicit. Why wouldn't they? Employees who follow that order to submit the e-mail (from their chain of command) would be complicit in what? LibHorizons: Trump/Musk/DOGE's agenda/government/commands. No, I don't think so. That would be victim blaming. There's nothing immoral about documenting your accomplishments and routing it within government channels (outside of certain risks like spilling sensitive information where you shouldn't). Just because the request for information from DoGE/OPM was immoral in its rollout doesn't mean the workers who follow their chain-of-command's directive to submit the e-mail are necessarily complicit in immorality, and certainly not the entire DoGE agenda. LibHorizons: The rest of the post was also applicable to your argument. Fascist regimes need a lot of people doing "regular" jobs going about their usual day-to-day tasks in order to accomplish their agenda. Filling those roles doesn't negate one's complicity.
Nonetheless, the point was that it wasn't really a mystery. There isn't really a reason for most government workers not to accede to this demand from Musk, unless they see their complicity as crossing a line, like the many people across a variety of parts of the government that have already resigned.
As you and micro point out, there isn't really reason to believe this crosses some line ethically or with regards to their dignity. DPB sounds like it would bother them, but still not cross the dignity line. I'm not sure what your point is. I'm discussing what to do in response to that OPM e-mail, and why. + Show Spoiler + You are discussing a broader issue which either lacks direct applicability to this particular situation or is based on such high standards that there hasn't been a year since the beginning of the USA that you could work for the US government in a rank-and-file position without being complicit in something that necessitates immediately resigning. You are entitled to that view, but it's pretty extreme. LibHorizons: The main point was that it is/was obvious that the vast majority of government employees are going to comply with Musk's recent "bonkers" demands. Following these commands from Musk and validating his power does not cross any line ethically or with regards to your dignity. I don't think you, DPB, Acro, etc are unusual in that way. LibHorizons: Took an extra week, but we got there. Everyone knows this command from Musk is absurd, dysfunctional, and a waste of resources. With that in mind, they are doing it anyway. That doesn't bode well for the US imo. Yep, huge signal for the US that people choose keeping the income that they and possibly others depend upon over going to your blog, where even people like Nebuchad and Acrofales are purity tested and accused of trolling, for praxis. Or okay, forget the blog. If only more people would click that link you keep posting recently, that you purport to be a deliberate and executable plan, that goes to a post that just says "we really need a leftist version of Project 2025 everyone!". On March 04 2025 09:42 Turbovolver wrote:
Of course though, when Hasan buys a luxury sportscar you're not allowed to point that out without being a "and yet you participate in society, how fascinating" person, but rando people in the middle class should absolutely up and risk their jobs.
LibHorizons: I am encouraging people to help develop a deliberate and executable plan. I offered my thoughts on a start for that plan. Unclear why DPB or any other lib/Dem/ilk don't want to work on it or offer/discuss their own alternatives.
To flesh out DPB's advocacy for JO's advice to primary Democrats that aren't showing sufficient will to fight/oppose the Trump admin's agenda a bit: Not every Democrat needs to be primaried. Those of us in safe blue states with Democrats unlikely to not clear the bar for not being primaried can direct resources toward places where the Democrats do need to be primaried. But we need a reasonably objective way to determine which is which.
Thus far Democrats and their supporters have failed to provide that. I'm open to hearing their ideas, but lacking that, I feel obligated as a progressive to present something that is better than nothing. Sooo...
Having a deliberate and executable plan (with a simple name like "project 2025" or "The New Deal" or whatever) and making support for it be the litmus test. You support it, no primary. You don't support it, you get primaried, and the party doesn't bail you out. The party should let Bernie, AOC, and The Squad lead the way in setting the terms, but they've all shown they can be very reasonable and show deference to the party generally. So it's not as if they would ignore the needs/preferences of the more centrist parts of the party entirely, or even to the degree they've been pushed to the periphery by said centrists.
LibHorizons: I am also encouraging anyone that opposes Trump/Musk/their administration's agenda to contribute towards it and/or offer their own for us libs/Dems/ilk to work on/towards ASAP. We needed it yesterday, so every second they wait to help us (and/or post like you are here) is helping the Trump administration advance their agenda instead.
But yeah, generally speaking, random middle class workers (along with people from every walk of life) will have to risk more than just their jobs to stop the rising tide of fascism in the US and globally. We should all be thankful we're only talking about participating in blogs, electoral planning, and refusing to forward a chain email instead of storming a beach in Normandy or digging a foxhole in Pokrovsk.
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On March 04 2025 12:17 Turbovolver wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2025 11:14 Zambrah wrote:
Hasan is a leftie twitch streamer, hes not a tankie Sorry but if you say "Russia can't annex a country it already owns" with regard to Ukraine, when you say that China's dealing with Tibet and Taiwan is like "the American federal government going to the fucking south and killing unfortunately not all of them but a decent amount of slavers and defenders of slavery", you are close enough to a tankie that you may be called one. Show nested quote +On March 04 2025 11:14 Zambrah wrote:
EDIT: Also, for funsies, Destiny the former SC2 player is also a political/debatelord streamer type, apparently hes a sex pest lol Maybe you thought I was a Destiny fan because I invoked Hasan lol, but nah Destiny indeed seems trash in this regard, the only extended amount of Destiny I've listened to is him trying to tell Avilo to stop being a stalker because SC drama is more interesting to me than politics, heh. Hasan using brothels, literally buying access to working class bodies with Twitch money, sure makes me side-eye though.
I just brought up Destiny cause hes tangentially related here via SC2 and him being a sex pest is the most recently thing Ive seen from him, lol
Ive watched a few Hasan videos recently and I dont really think your assertion that he characterizes Russia as anything but the villain in their invasion of Ukraine is correct, in like, any capacity. I will say I always roll my eyes at leftists who instinctually feel the need to defend the Chinese government, but frankly Im not actually educated enough about whats happening their to say anything for certain about it, the Chinese government is certainly capable of doing terrible shit though so I hardly find myself wanting to defend them.
As for the American federal government not killing the slavers and stuff, I'm just gonna have to hard agree with him there assuming he did say that like you're saying he did. I agree. We didnt press our boots down nearly hard enough after the Civil War, we let too many scum fuck monsters not only live, but assume power. I don't really think that killing monstrous oppressors who engaged in one of, if not the most, brutal forms of slavery in human history is a tankie authoritarian type thing to do or believe. Thats like saying that it would have been bad to kill way more of the Nazis after WW2 lmao. We should have, we should have pulled a John Clarence Woods to way more Nazis, human life is sacred but not for people like Nazis and brutal slave owners, sorry, Id rather see them dead than alive and ruining society and hurting people.
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On March 02 2025 19:53 Acrofales wrote:
Great, I think you and Jon Stewart agree. But I guess that isn't the type of market interference you're talking about. You'd rather cut the VA nurses and let the "free market" take care of people's health.
Why would you assume that I support subsidies to oil companies? lol wtf.
I don't, I also don't support subsidizing farmaceutical companies, I dont support bailouts to banks, car companies or pretty much any form of market intervention and no I dont agree with Jon Steward he said "capitalism is exploitive and the regulations are there to help people" and I strongly disagree with both statements.
Regarding the hedgefund taxes and the defense budget these aren't market issues, but sure I'd like to see the defense budget get a big haircut fwiw.
No I wouldn't cut VA nurses since its a benefit in a contract for people who enlisted, although I'd like a fully privatized healthcare system, I don't think it's the governments job to funnel money from your pocket to the healthcare industry, I think people should keep that money so that they can choose if they want insurance and what kind, the prices would drop dramatically.
The funny thing is that Americans think that insulin costs like 2k a month because "capitalism" and dont realize its exactly the opposite, its the state intervention what makes it that expensive and that in any country with just a sliver of free market the same insulin would cost you under $200 a month.
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On March 02 2025 20:20 Slydie wrote:
It is quite the opposite, as mentioned above. A lot of regulation is in place to prevent monopolies, which are terrible for customers. If you can bully your way to becoming the only alternative, there is no incentive to be neither good not fair.
Healthcare just does not work in the free market. Even with competition, people will always be willing to pay much more than its raw cost, and the industry will always find ways to spend much more money than necessary.
Ok please then let me know about these free market monopolies with no government involvement, list a few and tell me how they work.
How do you bully your way to become the only alternative? also what regulations specifically stop the examples you give?
I don't think you understand how the free market works, I think you mean that with healthcare the demand is very inelastic, meaning people will buy no matter the price, and you are right, and that's why in the US the FDA doesn't allow synthetic insulin and there is only one seller who lobbied a regulatory moat so he has no competition and guess what? you pay 2k a month for your insulin or you die.
In the free market there are many insulin manufacturers and you get prices that are about 10% of the US.
![[image loading]](https://i.gyazo.com/6acdbcfaf81d9b4e76c20293b93d05fa.png)
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On March 04 2025 11:58 KwarK wrote:
I’m betting Mexico because Iran can WMD. Depending on the speed of economic breakdown maybe by the end of the year.
They’ll announce some cross border operations and pretend it’s not war but instead policing of some kind. Mexico will protest but will do the Ukraine 2014 thing where you can’t actually stop the invading army and so you don’t mobilize and you don’t start openly firing missiles. Bad time to have family members in uniform.
You think the US will actually invade Mexico and take land from us like Russia did to Ukraine? lmao
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On March 04 2025 14:35 baal wrote:Show nested quote +On March 04 2025 11:58 KwarK wrote:
I’m betting Mexico because Iran can WMD. Depending on the speed of economic breakdown maybe by the end of the year.
They’ll announce some cross border operations and pretend it’s not war but instead policing of some kind. Mexico will protest but will do the Ukraine 2014 thing where you can’t actually stop the invading army and so you don’t mobilize and you don’t start openly firing missiles. Bad time to have family members in uniform. You think the US will actually invade Mexico and take land from us like Russia did to Ukraine? lmao
Absolutely, it would start out as small incursions against cartels or what they claim are cartels. Mexico will have to engage at some point, and Trump will use that as an excuse to fully demilitarize much of the border. If that happens it would be an unmitigated disaster and the US would definitely lose after a few years, as turmoil and popular uprisings happen in every major city to stop the war, (and the army would definitely have major setbacks). Republicans telegraphed this even last year.
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On March 04 2025 13:29 Zambrah wrote:
Ive watched a few Hasan videos recently and I dont really think your assertion that he characterizes Russia as anything but the villain in their invasion of Ukraine is correct, in like, any capacity. I will say I always roll my eyes at leftists who instinctually feel the need to defend the Chinese government, but frankly Im not actually educated enough about whats happening their to say anything for certain about it, the Chinese government is certainly capable of doing terrible shit though so I hardly find myself wanting to defend them.
Well partially the problem is he says a lot of stupid stuff, and just a lot of stuff in general, so it won't always sit together coherently. I'm sure he's made plenty of comments casting Russia as the villain, but has he not also made plenty of comments essentially blaming the whole thing on NATO aka the US, which culminated in calling it US disinformation that Kyiv would be attacked? Apparently he also said Crimea was a justified invasion, although that one seems greyer to me and I don't wanna take my own turn talking too far out of pocket so I'll leave it at that.
To Hasan's credit, I found out looking into this that he raised $200k for Ukraine, which sort of talks louder than any "take" on the issue.
As for the American federal government not killing the slavers and stuff, I'm just gonna have to hard agree with him there assuming he did say that like you're saying he did. I agree. We didnt press our boots down nearly hard enough after the Civil War, we let too many scum fuck monsters not only live, but assume power. I don't really think that killing monstrous oppressors who engaged in one of, if not the most, brutal forms of slavery in human history is a tankie authoritarian type thing to do or believe.
I wasn't objecting to his language there for the US, I don't consider myself informed enough to comment on "how hard" the South was stomped down upon, or should have been. Slavery is fucked though, I can comfortably say that.
My objection was to comparing Tibet (and especially Taiwan?!?!) to this. That's the tankie part, as you say, instinctually defending the Chinese government. It's especially weird to me because China's got similar (slightly higher) wealth inequality than a bunch of countries nobody is calling communist (say Australia or the UK), so you don't even get the supposed benefits of communism from the "communist" government.
Anyways, that's all academic. The reason for bringing up Hasan was that maybe the people who have acquired a lot of both financial and social influence off of... let's call it praxis... should be the ones escalating when shit is apparently hitting the fan. If the left is to mobilise, and mobilise those not currently committed to their message, this seems to be the angle, not telling people working for the government that they're complicit in whatever Trump or Musk decided to do after the latest three seconds of thought if they don't quit.
Maybe Hasan should run, haha. Or be calling for that general strike.
I want to be transparent, I'm not going to pretend to be a leftist warrior, but this isn't all some concern troll either. Like, I've already declared myself one of the cowards, and one has to think about their young children when it comes to things like striking, but I'd happily vote for a Sanders or a Corbyn. When it comes to the US, where income inequality is particularly prevalent, a hard kick to the left seems especially needed. This doesn't even need to be achieved from explicitly leftist theory either, like I heard something very interesting about how the unavailability of public transport in a lot of the US hits the poorest people the hardest, who are stuck relying on used cars that are more likely to break down. Better public transport would then be a lever that would remove one of the mechanisms through which poorer people are kept poor. And fuck yes tax the very rich harder to pay for that.
On March 04 2025 12:26 GreenHorizons wrote:
But yeah, generally speaking, random middle class workers (along with people from every walk of life) will have to risk more than just their jobs to stop the rising tide of fascism in the US and globally. We should all be thankful we're only talking about participating in blogs, electoral planning, and refusing to forward a chain email instead of storming a beach in Normandy or digging a foxhole in Pokrovsk.
That's kinda what I'm getting at. Haven't a whole ton of your posts been about how that isn't enough? When you imply people should quit their job because Musk sent a dumb e-mail, you're (again) suggesting the time for talk in corners of the internet is long gone. Blogs and chain e-mails won't cut it, you yourself said this was all needed "yesterday". All GreenHorizons wants to say is "go try socialism locally" and when asked what that looks like says "using a socialist lens to realise that for example health care sucks", but okay, that was the past. LibHorizons is here now. What's LibHorizon's dot points of what a leftist Project 2025 might look like?
Seems like it'd do a lot more good than antagonising until political numpties like me are trolled into shitting up the thread.
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On March 04 2025 14:19 baal wrote:In the free market there are many insulin manufacturers and you get prices that are about 10% of the US
What's your take on patents, then? Should patents exist? On one hand, they seem counter to a free market in that they prevent competition. On the other hand, without patents, whoever is the most established can gobble up whatever new related piece of tech comes out into their far better equipped production/distribution network and destroy the originator of the product/idea.
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Well partially the problem is he says a lot of stupid stuff, and just a lot of stuff in general, so it won't always sit together coherently. I'm sure he's made plenty of comments casting Russia as the villain, but has he not also made plenty of comments essentially blaming the whole thing on NATO aka the US, which culminated in calling it US disinformation that Kyiv would be attacked? Apparently he also said Crimea was a justified invasion, although that one seems greyer to me and I don't wanna take my own turn talking too far out of pocket so I'll leave it at that.
To Hasan's credit, I found out looking into this that he raised $200k for Ukraine, which sort of talks louder than any "take" on the issue.
He does seem to at least admit hes stupid enough, for the most part Id characterize him as like, a leftist with a middle east and US focus, who communicates very well when he wants to, specifically in a way that I think normal people who would feel daunted by trying to talk to GH about praxis and Freire and shit. He makes it clear that socialism doesnt mean people cant have nice things, he has a set of seemingly pretty steady beliefs, I like that he talks shit on leftists who constantly talk shit on other leftists instead of allying with them, for the most part I see him as pretty reasonable from what I've seen.
Hes a masculine gym bro who speaks Gen Z (my least favorite part of him frankly, christ Gen Z speak I am old) dresses... fashionably? and talks about socialist principles and ideas in a way that I think the average person can understand. We need more people like him to counteract the raw quantity of far right lunatics online, bring some of the disaffected to the left instead of the fascist right.
I don't agree with him on everything by any means, but he strikes me as a useful ally and I don't want to be That Leftist who shit talks people who ostensibly agree with me like 95% lol. Anarchist, communist, socialist, whatever, as long as we agree that capitalism has to go and people need a better quality of life free of billionaires and fascist boot heels then Im happy to consider them an ally (within reason, obviously.)
Anyways, that's all academic. The reason for bringing up Hasan was that maybe the people who have acquired a lot of both financial and social influence off of... let's call it praxis... should be the ones escalating when shit is apparently hitting the fan. If the left is to mobilise, and mobilise those not currently committed to their message, this seems to be the angle, not telling people working for the government that they're complicit in whatever Trump or Musk decided to do after the latest three seconds of thought if they don't quit.
I dont think Hasan does that, though yeah Im pretty tired of GH harping on it.
I get his point, he wants people to ask themselves, "when is what Im doing as a member of society/the government going to cross a point where what Im doing is actively supporting fascism," but imo hes trying to hammer them into an answer like its some sort of gotcha, whereas its a question that shouldnt need a verbal answer, its something for people to think about over time, something they can keep in mind for when there does come a moment where they have an answer for that question.
Thats why I enjoy GH's sig, its a question in that vein, I think that in moments like the one we're experiencing its useful to find parallels in history and figure out how what youre doing might align, but its also something thats complicated and takes a lot of thought to figure out. Yeah, some lines are easy, DPB would probably never pull a lever that dropped his students into a pit of spikes, thats clearly psychotic and evil, but other things aren't as easy and require some time and thought and will become clearly as you approach them. Its worth thinking about, but I dont think its fair to just try and push people into an immediate answer about where in that blurry space theyre going to draw a hard line.
This shit is hard enough and, frankly, leftists can be morally overwhelming and irritating online, I think that more leftists who can communicate somewhere between Hasan (Normal/Kinda Mean) and Wombat (Normal/Very Nice) is super useful.
I also think Hasan would be a mediocre politician, I think hes got a good niche interviewing leftist politicians and platforming people, Hasan is like the number one lefty content creator to my knowledge, but hes really not that powerful, in reality we dont need a more active Hasan we need a lot more Hasans and for them not to descend into dipshit purity testing infighting.
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