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On April 14 2025 10:42 Sermokala wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 10:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:Those arn't demands, those are just the description of what the demands would be. + Show Spoiler +You would have to force states to give up political representation to align more with population representation. You would need state governments to surrender power to technocratic cabals of local organizations with taxing authority to guide and organize economic development in the Metropolitian statistical areas.
You would need to make goals for your violent revolution that justify the revolution in the first place. You can't ignore that going down the path of violent revolution in America would see millions of people dieing for various issues before things stabilize, even before going into the very real risk of following what has happened with most other worker-led revolutions through history of things just getting worse.
What you as a Californian would have to recognize is that the only way things get better in the country is if things get much worse for the richer parts of the country like California and yes Minnesota in order to turn the red states into something more than subsidized third world nations.
People are very simple creatures that in mass respond in very predictable ways. You're not going to address the rampant desire for cruelty and punishment with poor rural Americans by starting with "lets make the economy crash to great depression levels in the short term" as persuation. It would be a lot easier to help stop the rise of facism in the country if you would stop helping it go along to get to this fantasy of a workers revolution that just solves all the problems with solutions that everyone agrees with. Perhaps, but I'm not going to try to parse Kwark's potential demands any further for him. On April 14 2025 09:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Happy Day of Cake DPB! Enjoy Thanks! On April 14 2025 03:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Probably the same reason as just about everyone else: Because I don't feel like it. I think your other questions are interesting though: I understand it does beg questions like what about undocumented immigrants being banned from the classroom? Or what about trans and/or other students just not being safe at school to the point they can't attend, without any specific ban enacted? It would seem to cross your line but also be somewhat already true. Presumably you'd also do this in solidarity with English or Science teachers even if Math was unaffected? While you should answer those questions (for yourself first), the point is to make a mark that you can measure to see if it has been passed and you have to do something radically different than you typically do under electoralism. Undocumented immigrants being removed from my classroom (although I don't even know if I have any undocumented students): I'd consider a strike. Trans/Other students feeling unsafe: I'd consider a strike if needed, though fortunately our school does a pretty good job of creating a safe and accepting culture (according to my students, including those who are LGBTQ+). The president illegally kidnapping people and shipping them to foreign prisons, then defending it in court in a way that would mean he could do that to anyone, citizen or not, is more than enough for me. I'd argue it should be more than enough for any reasonable person. Hence correcting it being a "must have" demand for a general strike I'd support.
Would you support a general strike that demanded the immediate return of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia? What else might it demand? No. I don’t think that a math teacher refusing to teach can reasonably lead to anything so far removed and irrelevant, like what Trump did to KAAG. On the other hand, I could see how a local teacher strike might have the potential to affect a local school (students being unsafe, students not being taught, etc.). First, happy cakeday! Initially I thought "big yikes!" at the "I don't feel like it". But now I see you're making your opposition to general strikes/solidarity in actions (at distance) as concepts more clear, so it's just a regular yikes I guess haha. While I'm still hoping for contributions toward the general strike effort here from anyone that wants to stop Trump's worst offenses, I do see value in exploring what you took interest in. I could be misunderstanding, so feel free to clarify anything you'd like. You seem to be organizing your line very locally and specifically. Basically seeming to draw your line when it directly impacts you/your school/your students specifically. It sounds like it might extend as far as your district? As in you would probably join a protest/strike if trans students were banned from another one of the schools in your district. It gets less clear if you would join/support a protest/strike for them crossing your line somewhere else in the county, state, or country. I understand and appreciate your lack of recognition for how math teachers joining a general strike can contribute toward a collective and massive protest/effort of people refusing to "act normally" when such heinous crimes are being perpetrated by their elected government. I also understand your refusal to see how that massive collective effort/protest can change/stop those governments in ways scattered localized and specific protests can't. I believe it is in part a consequence of a deliberate bipartisan effort to deprive all of us of the domestic and global history that contradicts your current beliefs. That said, whether it's general strikes in Brazil, Euromaidan in Ukraine, or the George Floyd/BLM uprisings in the US, it's clearly not going to be easy to stop/redirect this train to fascism we're all on, and nobody has discovered a magic bullet solution. Thank you for the happy cake day! I think your summary of how my preference for a personal strike becomes less clear and less likely as we zoom out from local to state to national is pretty accurate. I think that drawing a line from teachers to their school is a lot simpler, clearer, and more likely to have an impact than if we were hoping that the Trump administration would decide to change (or even care) based on what one teacher or one school or even one district does. As the degrees of separation increase between the person striking and the space they want to change, I personally become more skeptical of a strike working, and therefore less likely to strike. I'm also personally pretty risk-averse, so at most levels I'm more likely to join a growing strike than to start one. I appreciate your engagement with the summary. I think it's important to understand that part of the point of a general strike is that it isn't just what "one teacher or one school or even one district" does. No one is talking about you going on a solo protest/strike. It's more like most schools in red states making school unsafe for undocumented students. Then teachers in those schools protest/strike. Then teachers in the area but not in the specific schools the kids are being kidnapped from join them in solidarity (this can be protesting, striking, providing supporting funds, etc). Then teachers in schools where their kids are safe (for now) join in protesting/striking with them. Except it brings together more than just teachers and students in a form of mutual aid. The alternative you're describing is essentially what the Niemöller quote is warning against. To stay within the context of the Niemöller quote about the erosion of rights, I think different people will "speak out" in different ways. If a strike is warranted, then I would love for a ripple effect to take place, starting with the teachers who are experiencing these injustices, and then extending outwards to include other teachers, but I don't think I'm in the first wave of that level of protest. In the meantime, I'd be happy to engage in other ways of "speaking out", from joining marches and rallies, to speaking with teachers and students and families across the country, to voting and informing other potential voters, to creating a safe and respectful space within my classroom. That's part of the point acro, myself, others like DanHH, and the Niemöller quote are trying to make. More than just a general strike is already warranted, and arguably necessary. Whether it's the slew of resignations in response to Musk's criminal invasion of various government agencies, the blatant disregard of the constitution on multiple fronts, the rapid and irreversible implosion of the US's credibility on the foreign stage, the erasure of trans people as people, the systemic (but also haphazard) elimination of historic contributions by "DEI" people, the crackdown on immigrants, and the list goes on and on, it's WAYYYYY past the time of a general strike being warranted. You may not be aware, but part of what is driving the push for the general strike you were ostensibly curious about the demands of, is specifically to unite people and form those ripples. Part of the way that is done, is by organizing some of the various other protests, marches, rallies, etc that you're more open to. Part of why I'm encouraging you and others to describe a general strike with demands you support is that's part of how you build the ripples. As I've said before, the jump from local and directly impactful to universal and several-stages-removed is one that I'm not currently comfortable making at all, let alone joining in the first wave of general strikes against the Trump administration. I respect your energy and your desire to recruit more people for what is undoubtedly a noble cause, but for me personally, I'm going to currently speak out in the other ways that I listed, because those are ways that I can handle (emotionally, financially, temporally, etc.). As in you're not prepared to engage with/accept the historic examples that contradict your skepticism or that you just don't want to be one of the people doing it? I respect you doing what you can, but I can assure you we'll all have to go well beyond what we're comfortable with doing to stop what Trump/project 2025 are doing. Everything anyone is considering now is a helluva lot better/easier than waiting until the only option is storming a beach full of machine guns though. While I'm obviously partial to a general strike, you could also describe the demands the marches, protests, etc, you have said you would support/join would include and we can go from there. + Show Spoiler +I would engage with them if they existed. The fact that you don't attempt to even give a throwaway tells a lot. The fact that you weren't willing to be uncomfortable enough to vote for kamala yet want to lecture others on how committed they are to making things better is even more telling. Are you willing to do the bare minimum and be civil to others to build support for the changes you want to see in the world? I'm not going to commit to means when the ends are have less development behind them than Trumps plans. My preferred form of revolution is to create an insurgent political party to operate within the national democratic party until it has the level of popular political support to win the kind of compromises and concessions that makes peoples lives materially better. + Show Spoiler +The nation has more than 330 million people. Even if you get ten million in a general strike how do you think any of the changes are going to happen? The day after the general strike you fantasize about so much you are still going to have to convince enough of the rest of the population that you have the solutions to make their lives materially better. How are you going to address all the people you need to strip of their political power and their ability to control their economic future?
How do you think you are doing to convince people you can build the support to address the levels of hate and cruelty tens of millions of your fellow citizens advocate for on a daily basis? You've already abandoned any path of reform that people are going to consent to willingly so explain what your plan is for when the majority of the nation that is willing to vote disagrees with you? You can't even bring yourself to support what AOC bernie and walz are doing with their rallies when it materially advances your position. What uncomfortable act are you willing to make when you won't vote and you won't support leftist political rallies? + Show Spoiler +As an aside it wasn't lost to me that BJ was able to slide in that he thinks the left tried to assassinate Trump. That kind of infosphere isn't just going to go away once you hold the nation hostage by shutting down the economy. BJ is going to live a long healthy life hopefully, and you are going to have to fight for his life and his childrens lives to be better as well.
That's one reason why I'm asking you to provide ends that you would support being demanded (at this point I'd be happy with demands that exceed the status quo from you and DPB of Democrat politicians you'll support in 2026/2028 to stay on a constructive path). You're free to choose not to.
It sounds like you're basically describing DSA + LibHorizons plan which has already spent over a month languishing waiting for anyone here to work on developing/improving/implementing it or providing something better.
That was part of me doing something uncomfortable to potentially advance our shared interests by way of electoralism. As far as I can tell, despite my criticism, I've been as/more supportive of the Fighting Oligarchy tour and demanding that Democrats should be following his lead than most here.
On April 14 2025 10:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 10:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:Those arn't demands, those are just the description of what the demands would be. + Show Spoiler +You would have to force states to give up political representation to align more with population representation. You would need state governments to surrender power to technocratic cabals of local organizations with taxing authority to guide and organize economic development in the Metropolitian statistical areas.
You would need to make goals for your violent revolution that justify the revolution in the first place. You can't ignore that going down the path of violent revolution in America would see millions of people dieing for various issues before things stabilize, even before going into the very real risk of following what has happened with most other worker-led revolutions through history of things just getting worse.
What you as a Californian would have to recognize is that the only way things get better in the country is if things get much worse for the richer parts of the country like California and yes Minnesota in order to turn the red states into something more than subsidized third world nations.
People are very simple creatures that in mass respond in very predictable ways. You're not going to address the rampant desire for cruelty and punishment with poor rural Americans by starting with "lets make the economy crash to great depression levels in the short term" as persuation. It would be a lot easier to help stop the rise of facism in the country if you would stop helping it go along to get to this fantasy of a workers revolution that just solves all the problems with solutions that everyone agrees with. Perhaps, but I'm not going to try to parse Kwark's potential demands any further for him. On April 14 2025 09:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Happy Day of Cake DPB! Enjoy Thanks! On April 14 2025 03:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote: Probably the same reason as just about everyone else: Because I don't feel like it. I think your other questions are interesting though: I understand it does beg questions like what about undocumented immigrants being banned from the classroom? Or what about trans and/or other students just not being safe at school to the point they can't attend, without any specific ban enacted? It would seem to cross your line but also be somewhat already true. Presumably you'd also do this in solidarity with English or Science teachers even if Math was unaffected? While you should answer those questions (for yourself first), the point is to make a mark that you can measure to see if it has been passed and you have to do something radically different than you typically do under electoralism. Undocumented immigrants being removed from my classroom (although I don't even know if I have any undocumented students): I'd consider a strike. Trans/Other students feeling unsafe: I'd consider a strike if needed, though fortunately our school does a pretty good job of creating a safe and accepting culture (according to my students, including those who are LGBTQ+). The president illegally kidnapping people and shipping them to foreign prisons, then defending it in court in a way that would mean he could do that to anyone, citizen or not, is more than enough for me. I'd argue it should be more than enough for any reasonable person. Hence correcting it being a "must have" demand for a general strike I'd support.
Would you support a general strike that demanded the immediate return of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia? What else might it demand? No. I don’t think that a math teacher refusing to teach can reasonably lead to anything so far removed and irrelevant, like what Trump did to KAAG. On the other hand, I could see how a local teacher strike might have the potential to affect a local school (students being unsafe, students not being taught, etc.). First, happy cakeday! Initially I thought "big yikes!" at the "I don't feel like it". But now I see you're making your opposition to general strikes/solidarity in actions (at distance) as concepts more clear, so it's just a regular yikes I guess haha. While I'm still hoping for contributions toward the general strike effort here from anyone that wants to stop Trump's worst offenses, I do see value in exploring what you took interest in. I could be misunderstanding, so feel free to clarify anything you'd like. You seem to be organizing your line very locally and specifically. Basically seeming to draw your line when it directly impacts you/your school/your students specifically. It sounds like it might extend as far as your district? As in you would probably join a protest/strike if trans students were banned from another one of the schools in your district. It gets less clear if you would join/support a protest/strike for them crossing your line somewhere else in the county, state, or country. I understand and appreciate your lack of recognition for how math teachers joining a general strike can contribute toward a collective and massive protest/effort of people refusing to "act normally" when such heinous crimes are being perpetrated by their elected government. I also understand your refusal to see how that massive collective effort/protest can change/stop those governments in ways scattered localized and specific protests can't. I believe it is in part a consequence of a deliberate bipartisan effort to deprive all of us of the domestic and global history that contradicts your current beliefs. That said, whether it's general strikes in Brazil, Euromaidan in Ukraine, or the George Floyd/BLM uprisings in the US, it's clearly not going to be easy to stop/redirect this train to fascism we're all on, and nobody has discovered a magic bullet solution. Thank you for the happy cake day! I think your summary of how my preference for a personal strike becomes less clear and less likely as we zoom out from local to state to national is pretty accurate. I think that drawing a line from teachers to their school is a lot simpler, clearer, and more likely to have an impact than if we were hoping that the Trump administration would decide to change (or even care) based on what one teacher or one school or even one district does. As the degrees of separation increase between the person striking and the space they want to change, I personally become more skeptical of a strike working, and therefore less likely to strike. I'm also personally pretty risk-averse, so at most levels I'm more likely to join a growing strike than to start one. I appreciate your engagement with the summary. I think it's important to understand that part of the point of a general strike is that it isn't just what "one teacher or one school or even one district" does. No one is talking about you going on a solo protest/strike. It's more like most schools in red states making school unsafe for undocumented students. Then teachers in those schools protest/strike. Then teachers in the area but not in the specific schools the kids are being kidnapped from join them in solidarity (this can be protesting, striking, providing supporting funds, etc). Then teachers in schools where their kids are safe (for now) join in protesting/striking with them. Except it brings together more than just teachers and students in a form of mutual aid. The alternative you're describing is essentially what the Niemöller quote is warning against. To stay within the context of the Niemöller quote about the erosion of rights, I think different people will "speak out" in different ways. If a strike is warranted, then I would love for a ripple effect to take place, starting with the teachers who are experiencing these injustices, and then extending outwards to include other teachers, but I don't think I'm in the first wave of that level of protest. In the meantime, I'd be happy to engage in other ways of "speaking out", from joining marches and rallies, to speaking with teachers and students and families across the country, to voting and informing other potential voters, to creating a safe and respectful space within my classroom. That's part of the point acro, myself, others like DanHH, and the Niemöller quote are trying to make. More than just a general strike is already warranted, and arguably necessary. Whether it's the slew of resignations in response to Musk's criminal invasion of various government agencies, the blatant disregard of the constitution on multiple fronts, the rapid and irreversible implosion of the US's credibility on the foreign stage, the erasure of trans people as people, the systemic (but also haphazard) elimination of historic contributions by "DEI" people, the crackdown on immigrants, and the list goes on and on, it's WAYYYYY past the time of a general strike being warranted. You may not be aware, but part of what is driving the push for the general strike you were ostensibly curious about the demands of, is specifically to unite people and form those ripples. Part of the way that is done, is by organizing some of the various other protests, marches, rallies, etc that you're more open to. Part of why I'm encouraging you and others to describe a general strike with demands you support is that's part of how you build the ripples. As I've said before, the jump from local and directly impactful to universal and several-stages-removed is one that I'm not currently comfortable making at all, let alone joining in the first wave of general strikes against the Trump administration. I respect your energy and your desire to recruit more people for what is undoubtedly a noble cause, but for me personally, I'm going to currently speak out in the other ways that I listed, because those are ways that I can handle (emotionally, financially, temporally, etc.). As in you're not prepared to engage with/accept the historic examples that contradict your skepticism or that you just don't want to be one of the people doing it? I respect you doing what you can, but I can assure you we'll all have to go well beyond what we're comfortable with doing to stop what Trump/project 2025 are doing. Everything anyone is considering now is a helluva lot better/easier than waiting until the only option is storming a beach full of machine guns though. While I'm obviously partial to a general strike, you could also describe the demands the marches, protests, etc, you have said you would support/join would include and we can go from there. I'm not sure if I have much to add there, given that we've already talked about some hypothetical local issues that I'd be okay with protesting. + Show Spoiler +Here's an example though, to give you an idea of my mindset for something like this:
Let's suppose that my school was told (by whoever... principal, superintendent, state DoE, governor, federal DoE, Congress, Trump, Musk, etc.) that starting May 1st, teachers must call all students by whatever name and pronouns their parents prefer - which wouldn't be a problem for most students (as most students use names, nicknames, and pronouns that their parents are probably okay with), but would clearly disproportionately affect trans students (especially if the students aren't out yet to their parents, or if their parents are extremely conservative and want to perpetuate deadnames and sex assigned at birth, etc.).
For the two weeks leading up to May 1st, I'd absolutely be voicing my disdain for that new rule, and I'd be talking to other teachers / affected parties about how best to reverse that call ahead of time, and also how best to resist that rule if it ends up being enforced. My colleagues and I would be attending board meetings and calling up whoever we could (local level, state level, etc.), we'd be reaching out to families, and we'd be having conversations with students. We'd be preemptively working to do everything we could before May 1st. On/After May 1st, assuming the new rule is still implemented and expected to be followed by teachers, I would strike in protest and I think a lot of my colleagues would too. Our single, hypothetical demand would be very specific and clear: We'll go back to teaching as long as we can use the preferred names and pronouns of all our students, the way it used to be, as that's one of many ways to build a respectful and constructive rapport with students - which is extremely important for effective teaching and learning.
I guess I was trying more to ask if you could articulate any demands a protest/rally/etc you would participate in that weren't specifically local.
Like I assume you'd join a protest/action of some sort demanding Trump stop imprisoning and killing political opponents (not that he's doing this currently) even if none of the people were your students or even in your state.
Or are you saying that you don't see currently or historically how doing that can/has changed/stopped governments from doing things like that?
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On April 14 2025 13:24 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:06 KwarK wrote:
A general strike bringing America to its knees would be revolutionary. It would be a dramatic seizure of power by the people and would likely not be repeatable. I’d be disappointed if it ended with anything short of a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one. If the people at large are going to wake up, collectively mobilize, and act to seize political power then I want more than just Musk being evicted from the White House. I basically agree with this, though I think people in the US trying a general strike and getting some significant (but insufficient) demands could be a step in waking up even more people to an effective alternative way to get the results they are after. While you may feel far apart from the people that would join for the Musk demands, I think it's worth trying to put your preferred demands in the going format to see if we can work with them. Must Haves: A dramatic seizure of power by the people Wants: a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Preserving some of the constitutional flaws (Kwark could specify). That close enough? Okay so I was being slightly facetious with the whole 'end of global capitalism' comment earlier, but I'll play the game. A general strike is way more rare than a once in a lifetime opportunity. Its an opportunity you get once every couple hundred years to do something real. It would have to result in a series of policies that redistributes wealth significantly. A massive, unavoidable redistribution that reverses the last 30 years of rising inequality, and prevents runaway inequality from starting up again.
So does
Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself
Wants: End global capitalism
Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities.
look close enough, or can you improve the clarity while maintaining/improving the brevity?
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On April 14 2025 13:55 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 13:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2025 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:06 KwarK wrote:
A general strike bringing America to its knees would be revolutionary. It would be a dramatic seizure of power by the people and would likely not be repeatable. I’d be disappointed if it ended with anything short of a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one. If the people at large are going to wake up, collectively mobilize, and act to seize political power then I want more than just Musk being evicted from the White House. I basically agree with this, though I think people in the US trying a general strike and getting some significant (but insufficient) demands could be a step in waking up even more people to an effective alternative way to get the results they are after. While you may feel far apart from the people that would join for the Musk demands, I think it's worth trying to put your preferred demands in the going format to see if we can work with them. Must Haves: A dramatic seizure of power by the people Wants: a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Preserving some of the constitutional flaws (Kwark could specify). That close enough? Okay so I was being slightly facetious with the whole 'end of global capitalism' comment earlier, but I'll play the game. A general strike is way more rare than a once in a lifetime opportunity. Its an opportunity you get once every couple hundred years to do something real. It would have to result in a series of policies that redistributes wealth significantly. A massive, unavoidable redistribution that reverses the last 30 years of rising inequality, and prevents runaway inequality from starting up again. So does Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself Wants: End global capitalism Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities. look close enough, or can you improve the clarity while maintaining/improving the brevity?
Perhaps change WANTS to: Suite of socialist policy, including healthcare, housing, social security that works etc.
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On April 14 2025 14:03 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 13:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 13:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2025 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:06 KwarK wrote:
A general strike bringing America to its knees would be revolutionary. It would be a dramatic seizure of power by the people and would likely not be repeatable. I’d be disappointed if it ended with anything short of a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one. If the people at large are going to wake up, collectively mobilize, and act to seize political power then I want more than just Musk being evicted from the White House. I basically agree with this, though I think people in the US trying a general strike and getting some significant (but insufficient) demands could be a step in waking up even more people to an effective alternative way to get the results they are after. While you may feel far apart from the people that would join for the Musk demands, I think it's worth trying to put your preferred demands in the going format to see if we can work with them. Must Haves: A dramatic seizure of power by the people Wants: a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Preserving some of the constitutional flaws (Kwark could specify). That close enough? Okay so I was being slightly facetious with the whole 'end of global capitalism' comment earlier, but I'll play the game. A general strike is way more rare than a once in a lifetime opportunity. Its an opportunity you get once every couple hundred years to do something real. It would have to result in a series of policies that redistributes wealth significantly. A massive, unavoidable redistribution that reverses the last 30 years of rising inequality, and prevents runaway inequality from starting up again. So does Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself Wants: End global capitalism Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities. look close enough, or can you improve the clarity while maintaining/improving the brevity? Perhaps change WANTS to: Suite of socialist policy, including healthcare, housing, social security that works etc. Maybe "A scientific socialist New Deal"?
I know some people will want us to drop the term "socialist", but I think it's fine for now for clearly communicating among people here that aren't allergic to the term themselves.
So, as amended, it would be:+ Show Spoiler +Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself
Wants: A scientific socialist New Deal
Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities
That would bring the General Strike Demands (in progress, and in no particular order) to:
Must Haves:
1. Immediate removal of Musk from gov, Doge cease and desist with special investigation
2. Immediate return of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia
3. Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself
Wants:
1. Removal of state of emergency and rollback of economic executive overreach.
2. Immediate cease and desist on extra-judicial deportations.
3. The protection of Mahmoud Khalil's rights
4. A scientific socialist New Deal
Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand:
1. Military support of Israel.
2. More police funding/cop cities
3. Entrenching inequities
We can work on the language more as a group when we have maybe ~6-12-6 of each if you don't mind?
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The only problem with the idea of a general strike is that there is currently virtually no support for such an action.
Unless a general strike is supported and joined by a large enough majority, the corporations will just bus in more workers and your strike fails.
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On April 14 2025 15:05 gobbledydook wrote:
The only problem with the idea of a general strike is that there is currently virtually no support for such an action.
Unless a general strike is supported and joined by a large enough majority, the corporations will just bus in more workers and your strike fails.
The idea is to capitalize on rising discontent with Trumpism to build support.
Its pretty much what leftism is left with after being systemically removed from democratic politics.
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On April 14 2025 07:53 BlackJack wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 07:26 Doublemint wrote:interesting choice to not quote the last part. Interestingly, the study attributes the problems to the drivers not the cars. While DUIs and speeding can clearly be attributed to driver behaviors, and these behaviors cause accidents, accidents can also be attributed to the performance of the cars themselves. maybe SpaceX launches more because they have the safety of having the US govenment backing them? come hell or high water? there I thought Americans were about competition and lower costs, not having SpaceX have their cake and Elon eating it too. and then ordering as many as he likes as he is best buddy with the current POTUS. and running DOGE. and having the blessing of ordinary people too in here which is the most interesting part really. my mistake then. Before SpaceX was launching rockets for the US government, ULA had a government-backed monopoly as the only company certified to launch payload for the U.S. government. SpaceX sued in 2014 to end the monopoly so they could be allowed to compete for government contracts to launch payload. "there I thought Americans were about competition and lower costs..." Yes, SpaceX quite literally helped end a monopoly, increase competition, and lower costs. The fact that you think SpaceX got preferential treatment from the US government to get to where they are when they had to fight just to compete with the actual monopoly that Boeing/Lockheed Martin had with the government is quite puzzling indeed.
that's a great point. from the past. I am talking about right now.
and again with the selective quoting. I am detecting a habit. quote all of it next time so you have a harder time arguing against my point.
which is that everything elmo has done the last couple of years was to cement his position. the disruptor became the establishment - or monopoly in this case. and now he is chief fraud investigator as well.
Trump also from time to time brings the line that he is not a politician. while being in office for the second time... as POTUS.
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On April 14 2025 14:27 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 14:03 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2025 13:55 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 13:24 Jockmcplop wrote:On April 14 2025 08:53 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:06 KwarK wrote:
A general strike bringing America to its knees would be revolutionary. It would be a dramatic seizure of power by the people and would likely not be repeatable. I’d be disappointed if it ended with anything short of a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one. If the people at large are going to wake up, collectively mobilize, and act to seize political power then I want more than just Musk being evicted from the White House. I basically agree with this, though I think people in the US trying a general strike and getting some significant (but insufficient) demands could be a step in waking up even more people to an effective alternative way to get the results they are after. While you may feel far apart from the people that would join for the Musk demands, I think it's worth trying to put your preferred demands in the going format to see if we can work with them. Must Haves: A dramatic seizure of power by the people Wants: a new Republic with a rewritten constitution that addressed the flaws and loopholes within the current one Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Preserving some of the constitutional flaws (Kwark could specify). That close enough? Okay so I was being slightly facetious with the whole 'end of global capitalism' comment earlier, but I'll play the game. A general strike is way more rare than a once in a lifetime opportunity. Its an opportunity you get once every couple hundred years to do something real. It would have to result in a series of policies that redistributes wealth significantly. A massive, unavoidable redistribution that reverses the last 30 years of rising inequality, and prevents runaway inequality from starting up again. So does Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself Wants: End global capitalism Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities. look close enough, or can you improve the clarity while maintaining/improving the brevity? Perhaps change WANTS to: Suite of socialist policy, including healthcare, housing, social security that works etc. Maybe "A scientific socialist New Deal"? I know some people will want us to drop the term "socialist", but I think it's fine for now for clearly communicating among people here that aren't allergic to the term themselves. So, as amended, it would be: + Show Spoiler +Must Have: Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself
Wants: A scientific socialist New Deal
Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: Entrenching inequities That would bring the General Strike Demands (in progress, and in no particular order) to: Must Haves: 1. Immediate removal of Musk from gov, Doge cease and desist with special investigation 2. Immediate return of Kilmar Armando Abrego Garcia 3. Unprecedented wealth redistribution along with policy that prevents it from undoing itself Wants:1. Removal of state of emergency and rollback of economic executive overreach. 2. Immediate cease and desist on extra-judicial deportations. 3. The protection of Mahmoud Khalil's rights 4. A scientific socialist New Deal Deal Breaker No/Can't Demand: 1. Military support of Israel. 2. More police funding/cop cities 3. Entrenching inequities We can work on the language more as a group when we have maybe ~6-12-6 of each if you don't mind?
Had to google those two that evidently fell victim to the encroaching fascistification of your country.
Very reasonable post overall. I hope for you all it can find the echo it deserves amid the protests.
You can funnel billionaire assets seized right into medical and educational facilities instead of having them find ways to escape the mess they created by neglecting their own population and putting a debt yoke on them for using those.
Man I‘m risking my life out here typing stuff like this out while Republicans are in charge.
Next time I‘ll have an US customer maybe I‘ll adress him with ‚Good evening, sir. How many people have we shot or detained today?‘
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On April 13 2025 13:50 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2025 12:49 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:30 Vivax wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. Someone vandalized my fence while drunk because he didn‘t like my political opinion from our last discussion at the pub.
Must have been a terrorist then.
I‘m going to ask the chancellor to declare martial law. Musks mistake is trying to be a businessman and a politician at the same time.Sure burning his cars is wrong, he only did a sieg heil on tv after all, but it‘s still vandalism. bolded - That doesnt work with either of the definition. Wiki - he disliked your political opinion, not tried to achieve a political goal. Britannica - are you sure that singular event of vandalising your fence going to "create a general climate of fear in a population"? Italic - you mean like Bloomberg? Schwarzenegger? Bolded 2 - Are you serious? I never seen so many Nazi symbols, as at those protest (side of war movies) It is very nice of the protestors that they express their conviction on people cars. On the offside, it kinda help spread their ideology (do you still can get paid by having ads on your car?). It is somewhat telling how those protestors love drawing svastikas. Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:37 Doublemint wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. okey, agree to disagree then if clinging to definitions is the be-all and end-all. depending where you stand however, one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist. might want to think especially about January 6th 21'. the ramifications of the event itself, aftermath, commission and its findings... and the subsequent pardons. bolded - Fair enough. Italic - absolutely correct. (Edited in: You do not seem to extend this to January 6 folks however?) Bolded 2 - hate repeating myself so: Show nested quote +On April 12 2025 09:20 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 02:40 Dan HH wrote:
I'm less concerned with corpo shitbags trying to make numbers go up no matter the circumstances, than I am with all the videos of gleeful smirking ICE agents that look like they were all just itching for someone to give them permission to act on their intrusive thoughts. They're not just following orders, this is like Chrismas for sociopaths. I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." Insert Generic January 6 comparison here. bolded - Agree on "generic"  All of it - Democrats I believe will be free to pardon them for everything from 1862 till 2145. (once they get president elected) I dont think pardon game is the one where you have standing. Biden pardoned what 8k+ people? I think both Hunter and Fauci got pardoned since 2014? with latter not even being accused of anything? Edit: italic You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting. Is there a w in the Russian language ? Answer: There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian. Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed. I don‘t intend to argue semantics in any case. If someone who sells a product does things that cause anger in people, and said people thrash the product as a consequence, you could say the fault is with both. But one side carries a higher responsibility by holding power and facing little risk to their livelihood, while the other carries a lot of risk and risks their livelihood and still sees it as wortwhile to do that. When you act out as chief propagandist to a totalitarian nutjob who continuously proves that the pursuit of stability isn’t in his agenda, you accept the risks. There‘s nothing that prevents billionaires from living a quiet life. It‘s the aggressive imposing of a messiah syndrome through media bombardement and interference in foreign politics that rubs many the wrong way. Last I read that certain someone say ‚I never did anything wrong ever‘ or something along those lines and that was enough to know what societies have to deal with nowadays.
Kinda makes one wonder if you hidden this part because you realised...
You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting.
Is there a w in the Russian language ?
Answer:
There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian.
Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed.
While displays of ignorance make one to stand out from the crowd, one should be concerned in what way one stands out...
"Is there a w in the Russian language ?
Answer:
There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian."
Russians surely were surprised, discovering after your post, that letter "B" was removed from their alphabet. I am old enough that I had 4 years of russian in Polish primary/secondary school. (wrote it that way, because first school you go to in Poland lasted 8 years at the time)
"considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting"
like this one?
On October 30 2024 09:05 Razyda wrote:
I am pretty sure I stated quite few times on this forum that I think he is buffoon and an idiot (or something along the lines).
"You wrote svastika instead of swastika"
Bizarrely some people dont write "swastika" all the time and autocorrect didnt pick it up for some reason. Your efforts of proving that leftist are obsessed with swastikas and will not let dishonoring it, by misspelling, slide, are welcome.
I apologise for misspelling the name of your beloved symbol.
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From outside of the USA, you should probably require only limited involvement from Democratic party leadership to avoid looking too much like a campaign event and handing them the opportunity to direct the movement. You clearly do want much more than people voting Democrats in the next election. As soon as you have Harris giving speeches at their events, the movement is in serious jeopardy.
Another thing would probably be increased oversight of the executive branch by the legislative branch—not just on paper but active practices like bimonthly hearings of cabinet members and the president by every member of Congress. In general, you seem to need a parliamentary system. This would probably require major structural change in Congress.
You also need some way to guarantee the future safety of the structures that organized the general strike. If changes are being walked back, the organizations need to be capable of a new strike with very short notice. There is a high chance of a push to ban these organizers afterwards to avoid a repeat. These structures can also help organize things on more local issues, which helps them keep activity beyond the general strike. Maybe they could help unionize and combat local labour issues.
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On April 14 2025 13:47 GreenHorizons wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 10:42 Sermokala wrote:On April 14 2025 10:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:Those arn't demands, those are just the description of what the demands would be. + Show Spoiler +You would have to force states to give up political representation to align more with population representation. You would need state governments to surrender power to technocratic cabals of local organizations with taxing authority to guide and organize economic development in the Metropolitian statistical areas.
You would need to make goals for your violent revolution that justify the revolution in the first place. You can't ignore that going down the path of violent revolution in America would see millions of people dieing for various issues before things stabilize, even before going into the very real risk of following what has happened with most other worker-led revolutions through history of things just getting worse.
What you as a Californian would have to recognize is that the only way things get better in the country is if things get much worse for the richer parts of the country like California and yes Minnesota in order to turn the red states into something more than subsidized third world nations.
People are very simple creatures that in mass respond in very predictable ways. You're not going to address the rampant desire for cruelty and punishment with poor rural Americans by starting with "lets make the economy crash to great depression levels in the short term" as persuation. It would be a lot easier to help stop the rise of facism in the country if you would stop helping it go along to get to this fantasy of a workers revolution that just solves all the problems with solutions that everyone agrees with. Perhaps, but I'm not going to try to parse Kwark's potential demands any further for him. On April 14 2025 09:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Happy Day of Cake DPB! Enjoy Thanks! On April 14 2025 03:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Probably the same reason as just about everyone else: Because I don't feel like it. I think your other questions are interesting though:
[quote]
Undocumented immigrants being removed from my classroom (although I don't even know if I have any undocumented students): I'd consider a strike.
Trans/Other students feeling unsafe: I'd consider a strike if needed, though fortunately our school does a pretty good job of creating a safe and accepting culture (according to my students, including those who are LGBTQ+).
[quote]
No. I don’t think that a math teacher refusing to teach can reasonably lead to anything so far removed and irrelevant, like what Trump did to KAAG. On the other hand, I could see how a local teacher strike might have the potential to affect a local school (students being unsafe, students not being taught, etc.). First, happy cakeday! Initially I thought "big yikes!" at the "I don't feel like it". But now I see you're making your opposition to general strikes/solidarity in actions (at distance) as concepts more clear, so it's just a regular yikes I guess haha. While I'm still hoping for contributions toward the general strike effort here from anyone that wants to stop Trump's worst offenses, I do see value in exploring what you took interest in. I could be misunderstanding, so feel free to clarify anything you'd like. You seem to be organizing your line very locally and specifically. Basically seeming to draw your line when it directly impacts you/your school/your students specifically. It sounds like it might extend as far as your district? As in you would probably join a protest/strike if trans students were banned from another one of the schools in your district. It gets less clear if you would join/support a protest/strike for them crossing your line somewhere else in the county, state, or country. I understand and appreciate your lack of recognition for how math teachers joining a general strike can contribute toward a collective and massive protest/effort of people refusing to "act normally" when such heinous crimes are being perpetrated by their elected government. I also understand your refusal to see how that massive collective effort/protest can change/stop those governments in ways scattered localized and specific protests can't. I believe it is in part a consequence of a deliberate bipartisan effort to deprive all of us of the domestic and global history that contradicts your current beliefs. That said, whether it's general strikes in Brazil, Euromaidan in Ukraine, or the George Floyd/BLM uprisings in the US, it's clearly not going to be easy to stop/redirect this train to fascism we're all on, and nobody has discovered a magic bullet solution. Thank you for the happy cake day! I think your summary of how my preference for a personal strike becomes less clear and less likely as we zoom out from local to state to national is pretty accurate. I think that drawing a line from teachers to their school is a lot simpler, clearer, and more likely to have an impact than if we were hoping that the Trump administration would decide to change (or even care) based on what one teacher or one school or even one district does. As the degrees of separation increase between the person striking and the space they want to change, I personally become more skeptical of a strike working, and therefore less likely to strike. I'm also personally pretty risk-averse, so at most levels I'm more likely to join a growing strike than to start one. I appreciate your engagement with the summary. I think it's important to understand that part of the point of a general strike is that it isn't just what "one teacher or one school or even one district" does. No one is talking about you going on a solo protest/strike. It's more like most schools in red states making school unsafe for undocumented students. Then teachers in those schools protest/strike. Then teachers in the area but not in the specific schools the kids are being kidnapped from join them in solidarity (this can be protesting, striking, providing supporting funds, etc). Then teachers in schools where their kids are safe (for now) join in protesting/striking with them. Except it brings together more than just teachers and students in a form of mutual aid. The alternative you're describing is essentially what the Niemöller quote is warning against. To stay within the context of the Niemöller quote about the erosion of rights, I think different people will "speak out" in different ways. If a strike is warranted, then I would love for a ripple effect to take place, starting with the teachers who are experiencing these injustices, and then extending outwards to include other teachers, but I don't think I'm in the first wave of that level of protest. In the meantime, I'd be happy to engage in other ways of "speaking out", from joining marches and rallies, to speaking with teachers and students and families across the country, to voting and informing other potential voters, to creating a safe and respectful space within my classroom. That's part of the point acro, myself, others like DanHH, and the Niemöller quote are trying to make. More than just a general strike is already warranted, and arguably necessary. Whether it's the slew of resignations in response to Musk's criminal invasion of various government agencies, the blatant disregard of the constitution on multiple fronts, the rapid and irreversible implosion of the US's credibility on the foreign stage, the erasure of trans people as people, the systemic (but also haphazard) elimination of historic contributions by "DEI" people, the crackdown on immigrants, and the list goes on and on, it's WAYYYYY past the time of a general strike being warranted. You may not be aware, but part of what is driving the push for the general strike you were ostensibly curious about the demands of, is specifically to unite people and form those ripples. Part of the way that is done, is by organizing some of the various other protests, marches, rallies, etc that you're more open to. Part of why I'm encouraging you and others to describe a general strike with demands you support is that's part of how you build the ripples. As I've said before, the jump from local and directly impactful to universal and several-stages-removed is one that I'm not currently comfortable making at all, let alone joining in the first wave of general strikes against the Trump administration. I respect your energy and your desire to recruit more people for what is undoubtedly a noble cause, but for me personally, I'm going to currently speak out in the other ways that I listed, because those are ways that I can handle (emotionally, financially, temporally, etc.). As in you're not prepared to engage with/accept the historic examples that contradict your skepticism or that you just don't want to be one of the people doing it? I respect you doing what you can, but I can assure you we'll all have to go well beyond what we're comfortable with doing to stop what Trump/project 2025 are doing. Everything anyone is considering now is a helluva lot better/easier than waiting until the only option is storming a beach full of machine guns though. While I'm obviously partial to a general strike, you could also describe the demands the marches, protests, etc, you have said you would support/join would include and we can go from there. + Show Spoiler +I would engage with them if they existed. The fact that you don't attempt to even give a throwaway tells a lot. The fact that you weren't willing to be uncomfortable enough to vote for kamala yet want to lecture others on how committed they are to making things better is even more telling. Are you willing to do the bare minimum and be civil to others to build support for the changes you want to see in the world? I'm not going to commit to means when the ends are have less development behind them than Trumps plans. My preferred form of revolution is to create an insurgent political party to operate within the national democratic party until it has the level of popular political support to win the kind of compromises and concessions that makes peoples lives materially better. + Show Spoiler +The nation has more than 330 million people. Even if you get ten million in a general strike how do you think any of the changes are going to happen? The day after the general strike you fantasize about so much you are still going to have to convince enough of the rest of the population that you have the solutions to make their lives materially better. How are you going to address all the people you need to strip of their political power and their ability to control their economic future?
How do you think you are doing to convince people you can build the support to address the levels of hate and cruelty tens of millions of your fellow citizens advocate for on a daily basis? You've already abandoned any path of reform that people are going to consent to willingly so explain what your plan is for when the majority of the nation that is willing to vote disagrees with you? You can't even bring yourself to support what AOC bernie and walz are doing with their rallies when it materially advances your position. What uncomfortable act are you willing to make when you won't vote and you won't support leftist political rallies? + Show Spoiler +As an aside it wasn't lost to me that BJ was able to slide in that he thinks the left tried to assassinate Trump. That kind of infosphere isn't just going to go away once you hold the nation hostage by shutting down the economy. BJ is going to live a long healthy life hopefully, and you are going to have to fight for his life and his childrens lives to be better as well. That's one reason why I'm asking you to provide ends that you would support being demanded (at this point I'd be happy with demands that exceed the status quo from you and DPB of Democrat politicians you'll support in 2026/2028 to stay on a constructive path). You're free to choose not to. It sounds like you're basically describing DSA + LibHorizons plan which has already spent over a month languishing waiting for anyone here to work on developing/improving/implementing it or providing something better. That was part of me doing something uncomfortable to potentially advance our shared interests by way of electoralism. As far as I can tell, despite my criticism, I've been as/more supportive of the Fighting Oligarchy tour and demanding that Democrats should be following his lead than most here. Show nested quote +On April 14 2025 10:49 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 10:09 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:Those arn't demands, those are just the description of what the demands would be. + Show Spoiler +You would have to force states to give up political representation to align more with population representation. You would need state governments to surrender power to technocratic cabals of local organizations with taxing authority to guide and organize economic development in the Metropolitian statistical areas.
You would need to make goals for your violent revolution that justify the revolution in the first place. You can't ignore that going down the path of violent revolution in America would see millions of people dieing for various issues before things stabilize, even before going into the very real risk of following what has happened with most other worker-led revolutions through history of things just getting worse.
What you as a Californian would have to recognize is that the only way things get better in the country is if things get much worse for the richer parts of the country like California and yes Minnesota in order to turn the red states into something more than subsidized third world nations.
People are very simple creatures that in mass respond in very predictable ways. You're not going to address the rampant desire for cruelty and punishment with poor rural Americans by starting with "lets make the economy crash to great depression levels in the short term" as persuation. It would be a lot easier to help stop the rise of facism in the country if you would stop helping it go along to get to this fantasy of a workers revolution that just solves all the problems with solutions that everyone agrees with. Perhaps, but I'm not going to try to parse Kwark's potential demands any further for him. On April 14 2025 09:55 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:45 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 08:15 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 08:00 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 07:28 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:On April 14 2025 03:33 WombaT wrote:
Happy Day of Cake DPB! Enjoy Thanks! On April 14 2025 03:05 GreenHorizons wrote:On April 14 2025 01:27 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
[quote]
Probably the same reason as just about everyone else: Because I don't feel like it. I think your other questions are interesting though:
[quote]
Undocumented immigrants being removed from my classroom (although I don't even know if I have any undocumented students): I'd consider a strike.
Trans/Other students feeling unsafe: I'd consider a strike if needed, though fortunately our school does a pretty good job of creating a safe and accepting culture (according to my students, including those who are LGBTQ+).
[quote]
No. I don’t think that a math teacher refusing to teach can reasonably lead to anything so far removed and irrelevant, like what Trump did to KAAG. On the other hand, I could see how a local teacher strike might have the potential to affect a local school (students being unsafe, students not being taught, etc.). First, happy cakeday! Initially I thought "big yikes!" at the "I don't feel like it". But now I see you're making your opposition to general strikes/solidarity in actions (at distance) as concepts more clear, so it's just a regular yikes I guess haha. While I'm still hoping for contributions toward the general strike effort here from anyone that wants to stop Trump's worst offenses, I do see value in exploring what you took interest in. I could be misunderstanding, so feel free to clarify anything you'd like. You seem to be organizing your line very locally and specifically. Basically seeming to draw your line when it directly impacts you/your school/your students specifically. It sounds like it might extend as far as your district? As in you would probably join a protest/strike if trans students were banned from another one of the schools in your district. It gets less clear if you would join/support a protest/strike for them crossing your line somewhere else in the county, state, or country. I understand and appreciate your lack of recognition for how math teachers joining a general strike can contribute toward a collective and massive protest/effort of people refusing to "act normally" when such heinous crimes are being perpetrated by their elected government. I also understand your refusal to see how that massive collective effort/protest can change/stop those governments in ways scattered localized and specific protests can't. I believe it is in part a consequence of a deliberate bipartisan effort to deprive all of us of the domestic and global history that contradicts your current beliefs. That said, whether it's general strikes in Brazil, Euromaidan in Ukraine, or the George Floyd/BLM uprisings in the US, it's clearly not going to be easy to stop/redirect this train to fascism we're all on, and nobody has discovered a magic bullet solution. Thank you for the happy cake day! I think your summary of how my preference for a personal strike becomes less clear and less likely as we zoom out from local to state to national is pretty accurate. I think that drawing a line from teachers to their school is a lot simpler, clearer, and more likely to have an impact than if we were hoping that the Trump administration would decide to change (or even care) based on what one teacher or one school or even one district does. As the degrees of separation increase between the person striking and the space they want to change, I personally become more skeptical of a strike working, and therefore less likely to strike. I'm also personally pretty risk-averse, so at most levels I'm more likely to join a growing strike than to start one. I appreciate your engagement with the summary. I think it's important to understand that part of the point of a general strike is that it isn't just what "one teacher or one school or even one district" does. No one is talking about you going on a solo protest/strike. It's more like most schools in red states making school unsafe for undocumented students. Then teachers in those schools protest/strike. Then teachers in the area but not in the specific schools the kids are being kidnapped from join them in solidarity (this can be protesting, striking, providing supporting funds, etc). Then teachers in schools where their kids are safe (for now) join in protesting/striking with them. Except it brings together more than just teachers and students in a form of mutual aid. The alternative you're describing is essentially what the Niemöller quote is warning against. To stay within the context of the Niemöller quote about the erosion of rights, I think different people will "speak out" in different ways. If a strike is warranted, then I would love for a ripple effect to take place, starting with the teachers who are experiencing these injustices, and then extending outwards to include other teachers, but I don't think I'm in the first wave of that level of protest. In the meantime, I'd be happy to engage in other ways of "speaking out", from joining marches and rallies, to speaking with teachers and students and families across the country, to voting and informing other potential voters, to creating a safe and respectful space within my classroom. That's part of the point acro, myself, others like DanHH, and the Niemöller quote are trying to make. More than just a general strike is already warranted, and arguably necessary. Whether it's the slew of resignations in response to Musk's criminal invasion of various government agencies, the blatant disregard of the constitution on multiple fronts, the rapid and irreversible implosion of the US's credibility on the foreign stage, the erasure of trans people as people, the systemic (but also haphazard) elimination of historic contributions by "DEI" people, the crackdown on immigrants, and the list goes on and on, it's WAYYYYY past the time of a general strike being warranted. You may not be aware, but part of what is driving the push for the general strike you were ostensibly curious about the demands of, is specifically to unite people and form those ripples. Part of the way that is done, is by organizing some of the various other protests, marches, rallies, etc that you're more open to. Part of why I'm encouraging you and others to describe a general strike with demands you support is that's part of how you build the ripples. As I've said before, the jump from local and directly impactful to universal and several-stages-removed is one that I'm not currently comfortable making at all, let alone joining in the first wave of general strikes against the Trump administration. I respect your energy and your desire to recruit more people for what is undoubtedly a noble cause, but for me personally, I'm going to currently speak out in the other ways that I listed, because those are ways that I can handle (emotionally, financially, temporally, etc.). As in you're not prepared to engage with/accept the historic examples that contradict your skepticism or that you just don't want to be one of the people doing it? I respect you doing what you can, but I can assure you we'll all have to go well beyond what we're comfortable with doing to stop what Trump/project 2025 are doing. Everything anyone is considering now is a helluva lot better/easier than waiting until the only option is storming a beach full of machine guns though. While I'm obviously partial to a general strike, you could also describe the demands the marches, protests, etc, you have said you would support/join would include and we can go from there. I'm not sure if I have much to add there, given that we've already talked about some hypothetical local issues that I'd be okay with protesting. + Show Spoiler +Here's an example though, to give you an idea of my mindset for something like this:
Let's suppose that my school was told (by whoever... principal, superintendent, state DoE, governor, federal DoE, Congress, Trump, Musk, etc.) that starting May 1st, teachers must call all students by whatever name and pronouns their parents prefer - which wouldn't be a problem for most students (as most students use names, nicknames, and pronouns that their parents are probably okay with), but would clearly disproportionately affect trans students (especially if the students aren't out yet to their parents, or if their parents are extremely conservative and want to perpetuate deadnames and sex assigned at birth, etc.).
For the two weeks leading up to May 1st, I'd absolutely be voicing my disdain for that new rule, and I'd be talking to other teachers / affected parties about how best to reverse that call ahead of time, and also how best to resist that rule if it ends up being enforced. My colleagues and I would be attending board meetings and calling up whoever we could (local level, state level, etc.), we'd be reaching out to families, and we'd be having conversations with students. We'd be preemptively working to do everything we could before May 1st. On/After May 1st, assuming the new rule is still implemented and expected to be followed by teachers, I would strike in protest and I think a lot of my colleagues would too. Our single, hypothetical demand would be very specific and clear: We'll go back to teaching as long as we can use the preferred names and pronouns of all our students, the way it used to be, as that's one of many ways to build a respectful and constructive rapport with students - which is extremely important for effective teaching and learning. I guess I was trying more to ask if you could articulate any demands a protest/rally/etc you would participate in that weren't specifically local.Like I assume you'd join a protest/action of some sort demanding Trump stop imprisoning and killing political opponents (not that he's doing this currently) even if none of the people were your students or even in your state. Or are you saying that you don't see currently or historically how doing that can/has changed/stopped governments from doing things like that?
I feel that I've made my positions on strikes/protests pretty clear, as well as my disinterest in engaging further on this particular topic. Maybe other people can articulate their demands or feelings if they want, but I'm going to move on to other discussions.
When I (or others) post about something new that happens in the news, sometimes we just want to have a conversation about that subject. Not every post is made to gawk or mock, and not everyone perceives everything as an opportunity for revolution. Sometimes we want to talk and learn.
As far as what I'd like to see in 2026 and 2028, I don't know right now. I'm not sure why you specifically named me, as it's a question that anyone could answer at their own pace, when they start thinking about the midterms and the next presidential election. I'm not there yet. What would you like to see?
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On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 02:40 Dan HH wrote:
I'm less concerned with corpo shitbags trying to make numbers go up no matter the circumstances, than I am with all the videos of gleeful smirking ICE agents that look like they were all just itching for someone to give them permission to act on their intrusive thoughts. They're not just following orders, this is like Chrismas for sociopaths. I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all.
+ Show Spoiler +On April 14 2025 18:45 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 13:50 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2025 12:49 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:30 Vivax wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. Someone vandalized my fence while drunk because he didn‘t like my political opinion from our last discussion at the pub.
Must have been a terrorist then.
I‘m going to ask the chancellor to declare martial law. Musks mistake is trying to be a businessman and a politician at the same time.Sure burning his cars is wrong, he only did a sieg heil on tv after all, but it‘s still vandalism. bolded - That doesnt work with either of the definition. Wiki - he disliked your political opinion, not tried to achieve a political goal. Britannica - are you sure that singular event of vandalising your fence going to "create a general climate of fear in a population"? Italic - you mean like Bloomberg? Schwarzenegger? Bolded 2 - Are you serious? I never seen so many Nazi symbols, as at those protest (side of war movies) It is very nice of the protestors that they express their conviction on people cars. On the offside, it kinda help spread their ideology (do you still can get paid by having ads on your car?). It is somewhat telling how those protestors love drawing svastikas. Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:37 Doublemint wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. okey, agree to disagree then if clinging to definitions is the be-all and end-all. depending where you stand however, one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist. might want to think especially about January 6th 21'. the ramifications of the event itself, aftermath, commission and its findings... and the subsequent pardons. bolded - Fair enough. Italic - absolutely correct. (Edited in: You do not seem to extend this to January 6 folks however?) Bolded 2 - hate repeating myself so: Show nested quote +On April 12 2025 09:20 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 02:40 Dan HH wrote:
I'm less concerned with corpo shitbags trying to make numbers go up no matter the circumstances, than I am with all the videos of gleeful smirking ICE agents that look like they were all just itching for someone to give them permission to act on their intrusive thoughts. They're not just following orders, this is like Chrismas for sociopaths. I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." Insert Generic January 6 comparison here. bolded - Agree on "generic" All of it - Democrats I believe will be free to pardon them for everything from 1862 till 2145. (once they get president elected) I dont think pardon game is the one where you have standing. Biden pardoned what 8k+ people? I think both Hunter and Fauci got pardoned since 2014? with latter not even being accused of anything? Edit: italic You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting. Is there a w in the Russian language ? Answer: There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian. Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed. I don‘t intend to argue semantics in any case. If someone who sells a product does things that cause anger in people, and said people thrash the product as a consequence, you could say the fault is with both. But one side carries a higher responsibility by holding power and facing little risk to their livelihood, while the other carries a lot of risk and risks their livelihood and still sees it as wortwhile to do that. When you act out as chief propagandist to a totalitarian nutjob who continuously proves that the pursuit of stability isn’t in his agenda, you accept the risks. There‘s nothing that prevents billionaires from living a quiet life. It‘s the aggressive imposing of a messiah syndrome through media bombardement and interference in foreign politics that rubs many the wrong way. Last I read that certain someone say ‚I never did anything wrong ever‘ or something along those lines and that was enough to know what societies have to deal with nowadays. Kinda makes one wonder if you hidden this part because you realised... Show nested quote +
You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting.
Is there a w in the Russian language ?
Answer:
There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian.
Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed.
While displays of ignorance make one to stand out from the crowd, one should be concerned in what way one stands out... "Is there a w in the Russian language ? Answer: There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian." Russians surely were surprised, discovering after your post, that letter "B" was removed from their alphabet. I am old enough that I had 4 years of russian in Polish primary/secondary school. (wrote it that way, because first school you go to in Poland lasted 8 years at the time) "considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting" like this one? Show nested quote +On October 30 2024 09:05 Razyda wrote:
I am pretty sure I stated quite few times on this forum that I think he is buffoon and an idiot (or something along the lines).
"You wrote svastika instead of swastika" Bizarrely some people dont write "swastika" all the time and autocorrect didnt pick it up for some reason. Your efforts of proving that leftist are obsessed with swastikas and will not let dishonoring it, by misspelling, slide, are welcome. I apologise for misspelling the name of your beloved symbol.
I may have overreacted a little and thought you were a bot drop from the Russian government upon seeing how you wrote svastika.
Apologies.
I quoted your first post that kickstarted the discussion again though.
If Tesla burners are terrorists, so were the capitol rioters, which were pardoned by Trump.
Ergo, Trump pardons terrorists. But he also defines them, leading the definition ad absurdum.
It‘s not a justice system when it‘s politicized.
The validity of the word terrorism implies and requires the existence of a governing body that doesn‘t commit violence for political motives on its own.
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On April 14 2025 19:16 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 02:40 Dan HH wrote:
I'm less concerned with corpo shitbags trying to make numbers go up no matter the circumstances, than I am with all the videos of gleeful smirking ICE agents that look like they were all just itching for someone to give them permission to act on their intrusive thoughts. They're not just following orders, this is like Chrismas for sociopaths. I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. + Show Spoiler +On April 14 2025 18:45 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 13:50 Vivax wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On April 13 2025 12:49 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:30 Vivax wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. Someone vandalized my fence while drunk because he didn‘t like my political opinion from our last discussion at the pub.
Must have been a terrorist then.
I‘m going to ask the chancellor to declare martial law. Musks mistake is trying to be a businessman and a politician at the same time.Sure burning his cars is wrong, he only did a sieg heil on tv after all, but it‘s still vandalism. bolded - That doesnt work with either of the definition. Wiki - he disliked your political opinion, not tried to achieve a political goal. Britannica - are you sure that singular event of vandalising your fence going to "create a general climate of fear in a population"? Italic - you mean like Bloomberg? Schwarzenegger? Bolded 2 - Are you serious? I never seen so many Nazi symbols, as at those protest (side of war movies) It is very nice of the protestors that they express their conviction on people cars. On the offside, it kinda help spread their ideology (do you still can get paid by having ads on your car?). It is somewhat telling how those protestors love drawing svastikas. Show nested quote +On April 13 2025 10:37 Doublemint wrote:On April 13 2025 08:48 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 20:13 Doublemint wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:
[quote]
I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." elaborate if you were so kind. in case you are debate lording which seems a high probability... I'll bite. how is it the definitions fault that the richest man on the planet is also allowed to make decisions on the highest level of US politics. checks and balances are there for a reason, people not understanding it is unfortunate though not unexpected given the trajectory of libraries closing and tiktok stars rising. in a sane world people would have, well... "reacted" way earlier after their loved ones drowned or burned to death because of absurd design decisions of the Teslas. + Show Spoiler +Tesla Vehicles’ Manual Release Mechanisms: Not Intuitive
Tesla vehicles are equipped with manual release mechanisms for emergencies, but their functionality and accessibility vary significantly across different models. In most Tesla models, including the Model S, Model 3, and Model Y, manual door release levers are located near the door handles or within the door panels. For the front doors, these levers are generally easy to access; for instance, the Model 3 and Model Y feature mechanical release levers on the front doors, allowing occupants to manually unlock the doors if the electronic systems fail.
However, the rear doors present more challenges. In some Model Y vehicles, for example, the manual release mechanism requires users to remove a floor mat and access a hidden release tab, a procedure that may not be intuitive or practical during high-pressure situations like a fire. Such a design complicates escape for rear passengers who might be unfamiliar with the mechanism’s location, especially when time is critical.
Despite efforts by Tesla to educate owners through manuals and emergency response guides, the placement and design of these manual releases remain points of concern. Occupants who are unfamiliar with their vehicle’s safety features may struggle to locate or operate these mechanisms during emergencies. Critics argue that while Tesla has included these safety measures, their complexity and inconsistent placement across models could hinder effective escape in a crisis.
For instance, the Model 3 only has manual release mechanisms for the front doors, making it impossible for rear-seat passengers to exit manually if power fails. In the Model X, the rear door manual release requires users to remove a speaker grille, making it even less accessible during emergencies. These limitations have led to reports of individuals being trapped in Tesla vehicles during power failures or accidents.
Critics suggest that Tesla should redesign these features to enhance accessibility or provide clearer, more visible guidance for owners and passengers. Although Tesla emphasizes that these manual releases are meant only for situations when electronic systems fail, many believe that the current setup may still not meet optimal safety standards. While the company has made efforts to inform users through manuals, the onus often falls on owners to familiarize themselves with these features to prevent potentially dangerous situations.
The manual release mechanisms in Tesla’s Model Y, as shown in the images, reveal potential safety issues during emergencies, especially when the vehicle catches fire. While Tesla has designed these features as a safety measure, their complexity and location raise concerns about their usability in high-stress scenarios. or losing their lives having faith in FDS which has been around the corner since... well who even knows at this point. couple years even before the pandemic. Elon going into politics is exactly because of the above - literally. he gutted consumer protection agencies and the NHTSA which has been investigating him and his car's faults - which verifiably tend to crash more often and in return cost people lives. wasn't there also something with the SEC which got stopped in its tracks? regulatory capture done right you might say. and I am not even mentioning SpaceX/Starlink where he sucks on the government's teats for the longest time and the foreseeable future. the most secure revenue stream known to mankind. how are people supposed to react at this point? people are like the current. seeking the path of least resistance. for elmo it is giving 250+mio. to get the influence he craves because he simply has such an amount in his sock drawer. and making Twitter unusable as the algorithm is way more skewed than it has ever been. instead of facing the music and improving his cars. in ordinary people's case it is hitting him in the swasticar, boycotting and... well going overboard burning them. though hopefully keeping it civil and protesting the sad state of affairs for the most part. There is not much to elaborate. "Tesla burners" are terrorists. Thats why I put definitions there. Using violence to achieve political goal is literally what they do. Saying that categorizing them as terrorists is "comical, farcical" is either blatant lie, or pure ignorance. Rest of your post have nothing to do with whether they are terrorists, or not. Do some people have grievances against Musk? yeah probably (I mean you have entire thread here). Does it change anything? Not at all. okey, agree to disagree then if clinging to definitions is the be-all and end-all. depending where you stand however, one's freedom fighter is another one's terrorist. might want to think especially about January 6th 21'. the ramifications of the event itself, aftermath, commission and its findings... and the subsequent pardons. bolded - Fair enough. Italic - absolutely correct. (Edited in: You do not seem to extend this to January 6 folks however?) Bolded 2 - hate repeating myself so: Show nested quote +On April 12 2025 09:20 Razyda wrote:On April 12 2025 09:14 Sermokala wrote:On April 12 2025 09:11 Razyda wrote:On April 11 2025 19:16 Doublemint wrote:On April 11 2025 14:49 EnDeR_ wrote:On April 11 2025 14:11 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 05:31 Vivax wrote:On April 11 2025 04:13 oBlade wrote:On April 11 2025 02:40 Dan HH wrote:
I'm less concerned with corpo shitbags trying to make numbers go up no matter the circumstances, than I am with all the videos of gleeful smirking ICE agents that look like they were all just itching for someone to give them permission to act on their intrusive thoughts. They're not just following orders, this is like Chrismas for sociopaths. I am more concerned with people who skirt the rules to line their own pockets, destroy small businesses to build transnational untouchable conglomerates whose #1 concerns are cheap exploitable labor and dependent consumer classes, than the facial expressions of people who enforce the law against brazen and systemic trampling of it. What is the law worth when Trump just pardons people who side with him or run darknet market operations because it makes people buy crypto ? Try besieging the Austrian parliament and breaking stuff in it and see who pardons you. Vandalize the seat of US power = pardon Burn cars = Terrorism It‘s comical how the US is currently run. It already was on his first term but it wasn‘t as obvious. Dude has a Russian visum in the drawer. I have to exercise a lot of restraint on the daily to not take a fat crap over the situation. Case in point. Maybe mass burning cars that are targeted based on the politics of the head of the company to induce fear would best be classified a youthful mistake? A tragic accident? Protected political speech? Mere hooliganism? Burning a couple of cars is small potatoes compared to getting into Congress looking to hang politicians. Just saying. yes. is it good that property is damaged or destroyed? no. but there are laws on the docket already, going full gung ho on "tesla burners", categorizing them as terrorists does not even muster comical. it's farcical. people are pissed, and addressing the underlying reasons is key for lasting peace and good governance. having the richest person on the planet destroying government programs ordinary people rely on... to survive... is so far beyond the pale. mind bending stuff. doge and their leader then lied about massive fraud in the federal government, while being asked about it could not substantiate/verify anything. and to top it off mr. ketamine/elmo then has the gall to act like the cringelord he is at CPAC with his chainsawbrother + Show Spoiler +and some wanna tell me people being pissed at that are the problem? I heard it once said that the "US is a developing nation with a gucci belt". how it is being run kinda fits the bill. more good news... 73% of Americans are financially stressed. Two-thirds say tariff concerns are the source: CNBC surveyU.S. Budget Deficit Widens to $1.3 Trillion as Interest on Public Debt Hits Recordand for what exactly? what was achieved or is in the process of being achieved by the best people to ever lead, being led by the leader of leaders? if those are the collateral costs? Bolded - so farcical... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism"Terrorism, in its broadest sense, is the use of violence against non-combatants to achieve political or ideological aims." https://www.britannica.com/topic/terrorism"terrorism, the calculated use of violence to create a general climate of fear in a population and thereby to bring about a particular political objective." Insert Generic January 6 comparison here. bolded - Agree on "generic" All of it - Democrats I believe will be free to pardon them for everything from 1862 till 2145. (once they get president elected) I dont think pardon game is the one where you have standing. Biden pardoned what 8k+ people? I think both Hunter and Fauci got pardoned since 2014? with latter not even being accused of anything? Edit: italic You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting. Is there a w in the Russian language ? Answer: There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian. Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed. I don‘t intend to argue semantics in any case. If someone who sells a product does things that cause anger in people, and said people thrash the product as a consequence, you could say the fault is with both. But one side carries a higher responsibility by holding power and facing little risk to their livelihood, while the other carries a lot of risk and risks their livelihood and still sees it as wortwhile to do that. When you act out as chief propagandist to a totalitarian nutjob who continuously proves that the pursuit of stability isn’t in his agenda, you accept the risks. There‘s nothing that prevents billionaires from living a quiet life. It‘s the aggressive imposing of a messiah syndrome through media bombardement and interference in foreign politics that rubs many the wrong way. Last I read that certain someone say ‚I never did anything wrong ever‘ or something along those lines and that was enough to know what societies have to deal with nowadays. Kinda makes one wonder if you hidden this part because you realised... Show nested quote +
You wrote svastika instead of swastika, made me think of googling something considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting.
Is there a w in the Russian language ?
Answer:
There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian.
Your efforts of proving that Trump is a (pro-)Russian agent are welcomed.
While displays of ignorance make one to stand out from the crowd, one should be concerned in what way one stands out... "Is there a w in the Russian language ? Answer: There is no letter/sound equivalent to the English W in Russian." Russians surely were surprised, discovering after your post, that letter "B" was removed from their alphabet. I am old enough that I had 4 years of russian in Polish primary/secondary school. (wrote it that way, because first school you go to in Poland lasted 8 years at the time) "considering the pro-Trump narrative you‘re supporting" like this one? Show nested quote +On October 30 2024 09:05 Razyda wrote:
I am pretty sure I stated quite few times on this forum that I think he is buffoon and an idiot (or something along the lines).
"You wrote svastika instead of swastika" Bizarrely some people dont write "swastika" all the time and autocorrect didnt pick it up for some reason. Your efforts of proving that leftist are obsessed with swastikas and will not let dishonoring it, by misspelling, slide, are welcome. I apologise for misspelling the name of your beloved symbol.
Apologies.I quoted your first post that kickstarted the discussion again though. If Tesla burners are terrorists, so were the capitol rioters, which were pardoned by Trump. Ergo, Trump pardons terrorists. But he also defines them, leading the definition ad absurdum. It‘s not a justice system when it‘s politicized. The validity of the word terrorism implies and requires the existence of a governing body that doesn‘t commit violence for political motives on its own.
Fair enough I did overreact, apologies for that.
I see the confusion now.
"If Tesla burners are terrorists, so were the capitol rioters" - sure, although I would say that in case of capitol rioters I would call terrorists only those who actually committed acts of violence/destruction, similarly as in case of Tesla protesters I would call terrorists only those who committed acts of violence/destruction.
"which were pardoned by Trump.
Ergo, Trump pardons terrorists." - Fair enough, doesnt change anything though. He can pardon whoever he wants, be it terrorists, drug dealers, or petty thieves. Similarly as democrat president will be able to pardon whoever he wants. You have full right to criticise it for hypocrisy, (which would be entirely correct). You have all the right to criticise it by saying " between the two, [...] are not terrorists" this however comes across dishonest and I think does disservice to your case.
"But he also defines them, leading the definition ad absurdum." no, he doesnt, language (and to extent law) does, what Trump does is applying it selectively, which leads us back to hypocrisy.
"It‘s not a justice system when it‘s politicized." - Entirely agree with this, I am however of a view that there isnt/wasnt justice system which wasnt politicized to some degree.
"The validity of the word terrorism implies and requires the existence of a governing body that doesn‘t commit violence for political motives on its own" - Incorrect, validity of the word is unaffected by government. Validity of laws against terrorism is. Which again leads us back to hypocrisy, and if you think you can find government which isnt hypocritical, then I am of opinion: "Yeah... good luck with this one". That actually leads to question: should the laws against terrorism exist at all?
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Canada11316 Posts
So Proud Boys, etc are terrorist organizations under your definition, Razyda? Terrorists who were pardoned by the sitting president?
And a decent of anti-globalist protests have ended with burnt cop cars (and at times cops on fire.) Does that make any anti-globalist organization participant with the violence terrorist organizations?
I think we still need to carve out differences in categories as well as orders of magnitude of violence to still make distinctions between violent rioters/ protestors, politically motivated vandalism, terrorism, and even, yes insurrectionist. I would be willing to consider categorizing the Proud Boys who were participant in the planned storming the White House with insurrection (to disrupt the execution of government.) I would not be willing to charge them with terrorism.
I do not think we can say, well every government is hypocritical and then collapse all categories into one. Even in hypocrisy there are differences in magnitude and scope.
edit
For instance, only one president has ever been such a whiny baby so as to threaten CBS/60 Minutes' license and move for maximum fines due to an unfavourable documentary. And since he's gone after law firms, the usual defence of 'hyperbole' and 'don't listen to his words, look at his actions' don't work. The dude has the mentality of a petty tyrant.
I'm looking at his words and actions and they align fairly regularly. In fact, I'm strongly suspecting the only reason his words and actions didn't align for so long is during his last administration there were still a number of patriots in his cabinet and within the bureaucracy that were shielding him from doing too many unconstitutional things. But they are out and the sycophants and the snakes are in. So the governors are off this time.
As Tim Pool says, no one knows what the constitution means so "The only thing that really matters is whether the majority body politic determines it to be moral or not."
Let's speed run this tyranny of the majority, baby!
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On April 15 2025 00:47 Falling wrote:
So Proud Boys, etc are terrorist organizations under your definition, Razyda? Terrorists who were pardoned by the sitting president?
And a decent of anti-globalist protests have ended with burnt cop cars (and at times cops on fire.) Does that make any anti-globalist organization participant with the violence terrorist organizations?
I think we still need to carve out differences in categories as well as orders of magnitude of violence to still make distinctions between violent rioters/ protestors, politically motivated vandalism, terrorism, and even, yes insurrectionist. I would be willing to consider categorizing the Proud Boys who were participant in the planned storming the White House with insurrection (to disrupt the execution of government.) I would not be willing to charge them with terrorism.
I do not think we can say, well every government is hypocritical and then collapse all categories into one. Even in hypocrisy there are differences in magnitude and scope.
edit
For instance, only one president has ever been such a whiny baby so as to threaten CBS/60 Minutes' license and move for maximum fines due to an unfavourable documentary. And since he's gone after law firms, the usual defence of 'hyperbole' and 'don't listen to his words, look at his actions' don't work. The dude has the mentality of a petty tyrant.
I'm looking at his words and actions and they align fairly regularly. In fact, I'm strongly suspecting the only reason his words and actions didn't align for so long is during his last administration there were still a number of patriots in his cabinet and within the bureaucracy that were shielding him from doing too many unconstitutional things. But they are out and the sycophants and the snakes are in. So the governors are off this time.
As Tim Pool says, no one knows what the constitution means so "The only thing that really matters is whether the majority body politic determines it to be moral or not."
Let's speed run this tyranny of the majority, baby!
Quick answer as I am on time.
Bolded - Not sure if Proud Boys are terrorist organisation (neither know much and not interested in them enough to do a research), but if some of them committed violence/destruction to achieve their political goals then those "some" should be considered terrorists. Same goes for anti-globalists.
Organisation does not have to be terrorist for some of it members/subgroup to be terrorists.
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Northern Ireland24279 Posts
What is it that particularly piques your interest as regards to Tesla cars being vandalised, but not an organisation like the Proud Boys by your own admission?
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On April 15 2025 01:36 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2025 00:47 Falling wrote:
So Proud Boys, etc are terrorist organizations under your definition, Razyda? Terrorists who were pardoned by the sitting president?
And a decent of anti-globalist protests have ended with burnt cop cars (and at times cops on fire.) Does that make any anti-globalist organization participant with the violence terrorist organizations?
I think we still need to carve out differences in categories as well as orders of magnitude of violence to still make distinctions between violent rioters/ protestors, politically motivated vandalism, terrorism, and even, yes insurrectionist. I would be willing to consider categorizing the Proud Boys who were participant in the planned storming the White House with insurrection (to disrupt the execution of government.) I would not be willing to charge them with terrorism.
I do not think we can say, well every government is hypocritical and then collapse all categories into one. Even in hypocrisy there are differences in magnitude and scope.
edit
For instance, only one president has ever been such a whiny baby so as to threaten CBS/60 Minutes' license and move for maximum fines due to an unfavourable documentary. And since he's gone after law firms, the usual defence of 'hyperbole' and 'don't listen to his words, look at his actions' don't work. The dude has the mentality of a petty tyrant.
I'm looking at his words and actions and they align fairly regularly. In fact, I'm strongly suspecting the only reason his words and actions didn't align for so long is during his last administration there were still a number of patriots in his cabinet and within the bureaucracy that were shielding him from doing too many unconstitutional things. But they are out and the sycophants and the snakes are in. So the governors are off this time.
As Tim Pool says, no one knows what the constitution means so "The only thing that really matters is whether the majority body politic determines it to be moral or not."
Let's speed run this tyranny of the majority, baby! Quick answer as I am on time. Bolded - Not sure if Proud Boys are terrorist organisation (neither know much and not interested in them enough to do a research), but if some of them committed violence/destruction to achieve their political goals then those "some" should be considered terrorists. Same goes for anti-globalists. Organisation does not have to be terrorist for some of it members/subgroup to be terrorists.
Canada denotes them as a terrorist organization. FBI has them as white nationalists extremists but not a terrorist org
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Terrorist used to be a word applied more sparingly before 9/11. Bush really did a terrific job at projecting the threat from it to a wider spectrum when applied to commercial flights. At the height of the fear wave, just wearing a turban would have made a lot of people around you uncomfortable.
One of the most prominent cases until then was McVaugh for example. In Austria we had Franz Fuchs who sent bombs per mail (lol typo). Norway had Breivik who literally caused a massacre on his own. They were mostly of the right wing extremist spectrum.
Germany had the RAF from the left spectrum which mostly targeted people from the financial sector and politicians.
What they had in common were clear targets, an agenda or a manifest, political motivation and premeditation.
If a a government fucks up colossally and people go out and protest it and start vandalizing things that are associated with said governments, it isn‘t as clear cut whether they were belonging to a terrorist organization when they did it.
Unless the fuck-up was just Trump losing the election, but breaking into the capitol was just a bit of silly mild tomfoolery, clearly. /s
Yes, this is sarcasm.
Weren‘t government officials injured though ?
I think Falling has a more accurate view of events here. So, insurrectionism it is. And the chief leader of the movement is currently in power.
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Canada11316 Posts
I'm not sure if that last line is sarcastic, but if not: a plot to overthrow the will of the American voters because a paranoid moron refuses to recognize to this day that he lost because he gets all his information from his own feelings and not facts and also from dishonestly edited social media clips, well that's a touch more than 'silly mild tomfoolery." But also not terrorism. Not unless there was some organized violent resistance that manifested from the failed seizure of power.
And it is precisely the post-9/11 over-broadening of what constitutes terrorism that makes me more than a little cautious labelling violent protests as acts of terrorism.
edit.
Ok, good it was sarcasm.
When the defences run out on the electoral plot have been so absurd and using the most inconsistent standards to downplay what happened it's hard to spot sarcasm anymore.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://www.financialexpress.com/wp-content/uploads/2025/02/diya-2025-02-21T074621.571.jpg?w=1024)
