US Politics Mega-thread - Page 342

On June 25 2018 14:57 NewSunshine wrote:
GH explains it well enough. The response of Trump's base to Hillary's out-of-context deplorable quote was to brandish it as a weapon, as a point of pride rather than a critique, and to guard their feelings, so they wouldn't have to face the reality of the positions they support. It's way easier to live with yourself, having voted for Trump, by saying those filthy Lefties did it to themselves, by "making" them vote for Trump.

On June 25 2018 12:38 Danglars wrote:

I guess the "you made us into what we are now" is developing a resurgence. I say this saddened by people I once believed to be above the fray (though in political disagreement).

Honestly, it's one primary election and one general election and it appears to be the left clutching their pearls and then reacting with hate and anger. Do you even have agency anymore? Are you owning the term "reactionary" or "the resistance?" Is your political life really reduced to the characterization of a 'dropped rotting corpse' and it justifying your actions in response to it? The backdrop was the description of driving people out of society for not sharing their politics and you're off saying all bets were off after Trump's election. This is seriously disturbing.

On June 25 2018 12:16 KwarK wrote:

The current President retweeted racist Nazi propaganda authored by this Nazi.
+ Show Spoiler +

When pressed he can't bring himself to condemn Nazis if they're also Trump supporters, insisting that some are very fine people and that both sides are to blame for the neo-Nazi terrorist attack.

He calls immigrants animals, he shits on the justice system, he's constantly whining about the lying press, he calls for political violence against his opponents. I could go on.

At a certain point conservatives will need to come to terms with the Nazi president thing and move to justifications about why he was the lesser of two evils and how they never fully supported him anyway. There's only so many times that a man can promote Nazi propaganda before you start to think he might be a Nazi (for me that number is 1).

I don't think things were as bad in terms of Nazism in the past. Obviously a lot of presidents were massive racists, but most of them since WWII were old enough to remember that you should try not to emulate Hitler.

Europe is currently having the exact same debate over refugees and restrictions policies, but--again--it's only the US Republican party that is somehow regularly associated with Nazis for having a nationalist strain. Hell, Erdogan got reelected today and Xi Jinpeng appointed himself dictator for life several months so (both on nationalist platforms btw) and neither of them even got the Nazi comparison.

On June 25 2018 15:21 mozoku wrote:

Right P6 no progress has been made on the last 40 years because of an incident at a protest earlier this year.

Gay marriage wasn't legalized. Women aren't graduating college at higher rates than men, and the wage gap hasn't vanished at the entry-level. Our last president wasn't black. Acceptance of transgender individuals hasn't been rising. Racist attitudes haven't been declining.

Your understanding of trends is evidently pathetic.
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On to your second paragraph:

The Nazis are surely vilified because they detained illegal immigrants at the border for an average of 44 days. Starting WW2 and carrying out the Holocaust were just icing on the cake to you, amirite Plansix? That's the legitimate implication of your assertion.

The Nazis weren't the first nationalistic party, nor were they the last. If you were looking for honest comparisons, there's one hundred other nationalist/restrictionist movements to pick from. But I guess that wouldn't have the same dramatic effect, would it? But whatever, since the other side is acting like children than it's totally fine for you and your ilk to as well. Right? "When they go low, we go slightly less low!"

Europe is currently having the exact same debate over refugees and restrictions policies, but--again--it's only the US Republican party that is somehow regularly associated with Nazis for having a nationalist strain. Hell, Erdogan got reelected today and Xi Jinpeng appointed himself dictator for life several months so (both on nationalist platforms btw) and neither of them even got the Nazi comparison.

There is no standard that holds across time nor national borders where cries of "Nazism" and "morally irredeemable" aren't inconsistent. This "GOP = Nazi" meme is something that needs to be taken behind the barn and shot.

You're (and this applies to most posters here) not changing anyone's mind by being blatantly disingenuous. You're just part of the machine that whips up Democratic turnout and further poisons the discourse/state of politics in this country (as Russia has evidently also figured out). The fact that the GOP has Fox News that serves the same function doesn't excuse your participation in the vicious cycle.

On June 25 2018 18:31 Nebuchad wrote:
We don't have anyone on this forum who's going to own Trump, all the regulars have a mechanism not to do that (I'm not a republican, I'm a conservative/libertarian etc). Some of them didn't even vote for him like Intro if I recall and so have no reason to own him.

In a way a story like the one at red hen triggers those types of mechanism, because the reason why they don't go full resistance despite not being the biggest fans of Trump is that they just hate liberals way more. Which I'd like to explore because it makes little sense, but I doubt it's really going to happen.

On June 25 2018 19:08 iamthedave wrote:


Oh of course they do. That's why it's moral cowardice. Never defend, always attack, especially in the face of your side doing something indefensible.

Hate, unfortunately, is the word. It's no longer a disagreement, it's outright hatred. The other side - and yes both sides are doing this, though I think one is more justified than the other - believes their foe is literally trying to destroy America. The problem is that only one side is in the position to actually do it, and is cheerily working to do so day in day out.

I'm beginning to wonder when the next civil war is going to break out.

On June 25 2018 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs in the US that everything gets the 'Three minutes of hate' treatment, on both sides of the aisle. Mrs Sanders gets denied service at a restaurant - outrage, never mind that they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they like. Trump has two ice cream scoops while everyone else at the table has one - outrage, never mind that it's not your business what Trump eats. Everyone hates each other, and there is no dialogue.
If people can get riled up over such irrelevant issues, there is no chance for compromise on any of the important issues that the country faces.
Sad!

On June 25 2018 21:35 farvacola wrote:
The US is indeed subject to a sad state of affairs, but it has nothing to do with that tangled mess of a false equivalence in comparison. Folks who are anti-Trump have offered a voluminous number of substantive objections to how he runs (or doesn't) the White House, in this very thread no less, so I dunno why you'd focus on some random ice cream thing as though that's the face of anti-Trump criticism.

On June 25 2018 21:44 Gorsameth wrote:
Because picking actual meaningful criticisms means he had to defend what Trump does and no one wants to do that.

On June 25 2018 21:54 Plansix wrote:

You hit the nail on the head. Conservative posters flocked to the thread to decry the Sanders being denied service. Not the 2000 kids being taken away from their families through threat of force.

On June 25 2018 21:44 Gorsameth wrote:
Because picking actual meaningful criticisms means he had to defend what Trump does and no one wants to do that.

On June 25 2018 22:01 xDaunt wrote:

It was pretty clear to me that y’all weren’t up to having an adult conversation on that one. So yeah, no thanks.

Harley-Davidson plans to shift some motorcycle production away from the US to avoid the "substantial" burden of European Union tariffs.

Last week the EU introduced retaliatory tariffs on US goods, including bourbon, orange juice and motorcycles.

Wisconsin-based Harley-Davidson has assembly plants in Australia, Brazil, India and Thailand.

The company said it will raise investment in its international plants, but did not say which ones.

"To address the substantial cost of this tariff burden long-term, Harley-Davidson will be implementing a plan to shift production of motorcycles for EU destinations from the US to its international facilities to avoid the tariff burden," the company said in an official filing to the US market regulator.

According to Harley-Davidson the tariffs have added, on average $2,200 (£1,660) to each bike exported to the EU from the US.