EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 341
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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riotjune
United States3394 Posts
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 25 2018 12:09 mozoku wrote: You're both missing the point. I'm questioning the long-term wisdom of justifying childish behavior by pointing at the other side's childish behavior. Especially when the previous model had a pretty good track record. Good track record? I didn’t have to worry about Nazis literally killing people at protests 5 years ago. Now that is a thing and they are fine people. You want civility back, pray for an end to the Trump administration. Because his entire brand is dividing the country. Also we have people being put in camps on mass for minor crimes. People who don’t want to be compared to Nazis shouldn’t select a group of people, charge them all with minor crimes and then jail them indefinitely. And then say none of those people deserve due process. The comparisons write themselves at that point. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On June 25 2018 11:46 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah once the Republicans elected Trump, all bets were off. You don't walk into a meeting room and drop a rotting corpse on the table and then cry because people won't stop complaining about the corpse. I guess the "you made us into what we are now" is developing a resurgence. I say this saddened by people I once believed to be above the fray (though in political disagreement). Honestly, it's one primary election and one general election and it appears to be the left clutching their pearls and then reacting with hate and anger. Do you even have agency anymore? Are you owning the term "reactionary" or "the resistance?" Is your political life really reduced to the characterization of a 'dropped rotting corpse' and it justifying your actions in response to it? The backdrop was the description of driving people out of society for not sharing their politics and you're off saying all bets were off after Trump's election. This is seriously disturbing. | ||
KwarK
United States44190 Posts
On June 25 2018 12:38 Danglars wrote: Honestly, it's one primary election and one general election and it appears to be the left clutching their pearls After how many electoral victories is it proper to clutch pearls at Nazism? Obviously you think two is too few. What's your number? | ||
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micronesia
United States24782 Posts
On June 25 2018 12:35 Plansix wrote: Good track record? I didn’t have to worry about Nazis literally killing people at protests 5 years ago. Now that is a thing and they are fine people. You want civility back, pray for an end to the Trump administration. Because his entire brand is dividing the country. Also we have people being put in camps on mass for minor crimes. People who don’t want to be compared to Nazis shouldn’t select a group of people, charge them all with minor crimes and then jail them indefinitely. And then say none of those people deserve due process. The comparisons write themselves at that point. The end of the Trump administration will probably help but it's not a long-term solution. Trump got elected and it's the people who put him there or prop him up that are largely responsible for the state of discourse right now being such "childish behavior." We could end up right back in (approximately) the same place after four years of something else (dear God I hope not). | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Then when Ben Carson brings back redlining by removing HUD enforcment of equal housing lending, no one will notice. When they end enforcement of discrimination regulations at universities, it will be a polite debates. Because no injustice was ever stopped by a polite debate. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On June 25 2018 12:42 micronesia wrote: The end of the Trump administration will probably help but it's not a long-term solution. Trump got elected and it's the people who put him there or prop him up that are largely responsible for the state of discourse right now being such "childish behavior." We could end up right back in (approximately) the same place after four years of something else (dear God I hope not). When this administration runs its course, the jobs are lost, the economy is shit and shit costs way more, the “reality show” vibe will give way to people being pissed at anyone who defends this administrations actions. There is no democratic super majority and Obama this time around. And Trump is on a crash course to hamstring the our GDP. It’s just a question of how much damage it takes. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
Meanwhile, immigrant families are being split up without due process, the children thrown in cages that a private contractor is making obscene amounts of money from, enough to forgive an entire generations' worth of student loans, so that our kids that are going through this BS education system could maybe start building their own lives for a change. And then Betsy DeVos' organization puts these children up for adoption, ripping them from their parents and selling them for profit. Making ridiculous levels of profit, hand over fist, again and again, off the suffering of people who were already in desperate situations. You try being civil when that's the shit we're dealing with. Don't let Trumpists fool you with this outright lie. They want you to be "civil" because they don't want to be made uncomfortable out of having to face the atrocities they endorse. The last thing they want is for you to fight, and to call them out on their shit. I don't want to hear one. More. Word. About how Republicans have the moral high ground here. It's gaslighting start to finish. Fuck off. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24137 Posts
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:16 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't know what exactly about Trump is waking up so many people to why their calls for civility from folks like BLM were counter productive, but I like it. You have your moments where I still think you go too far, but honestly, our discussions back in the old thread helped me. I had been in total political ignorance, and taking part in discussion with you and the others has done a lot to "wake me up", so to speak. I was a blank slate, and that was on me. It was time to recognize that. So I thank you. | ||
Slaughter
United States20255 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:16 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't know what exactly about Trump is waking up so many people to why their calls for civility from folks like BLM were counter productive, but I like it. Probably a bit of more media coverage on the shitty parts of what is really going on so more people know about it and a lightning rod of Trump who is on "the other side" that can absorb the blame as opposed to criticizing their own. Kinda like what I believe you or someone else in this thread stated previously, that Trump's more naked form of shittiness would get people to start doing stuff to change things instead of just complaining about it. That and the younger Gen's are starting to move more and more into action. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24137 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:19 NewSunshine wrote: You have your moments where I still think you go too far, but honestly, our discussions back in the old thread helped me. I had been in total political ignorance, and taking part in discussion with you and the others has done a lot to "wake me up", so to speak. I was a blank slate, and that was on me. It was time to recognize that. So I thank you. It's been a process for me as well. I'm not right all the time but it's a bit of a rhetorical cold war for the overton window, the stakes are as high as they get and I don't intend on losing. I appreciate the growth and happy I could be a part of it. Makes this feel slightly less futile lol. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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KwarK
United States44190 Posts
Weird time. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:16 GreenHorizons wrote: I don't know what exactly about Trump is waking up so many people to why their calls for civility from folks like BLM were counter productive, but I like it. Except isn't it the opposite? Trump's favorables are trending up despite probably his dumbest policy move in his administration because the response to it was, in the public's perception, even dumber. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States24137 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:59 cLutZ wrote: Except isn't it the opposite? Trump's favorables are trending up despite probably his dumbest policy move in his administration because the response to it was, in the public's perception, even dumber. No, the reality is that this country is a lot worse than a lot of people wanted to acknowledge. Forced to confront that reality it's unsurprising many of them would rather make the reality not as bad as it is than acknowledge how bad their position is/was. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
On June 25 2018 13:49 KwarK wrote: It’s just a weird time for politics. Half the country learned they were deplorable people and instead of going “shit, how did I get here and what should I do to stop being deplorable?” decided to put “proud to be deplorable” on shirts, make deplorable part of their identity, and move all the way into victimhood. They now feel that people are unfairly discriminating against deplorable people and want deplorable rights enshrined in law. Weird time. But haven't you heard? Identity politics is just the tool of the Evil Left. The combination of irony and malice is so strong as to be palpable. But this is what they wanted, this is what they chose, over actually acknowledging their problems. They chose weakness. | ||
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cLutZ
United States19574 Posts
On June 25 2018 14:51 NewSunshine wrote: But haven't you heard? Identity politics is just the tool of the Evil Left. The combination of irony and malice is so strong as to be palpable. But this is what they wanted, this is what they chose, over actually acknowledging their problems. I am legitimately confused by this post. Like, I just dont know. | ||
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NewSunshine
United States5938 Posts
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mozoku
United States708 Posts
On June 25 2018 12:35 Plansix wrote: Good track record? I didn’t have to worry about Nazis literally killing people at protests 5 years ago. Now that is a thing and they are fine people. You want civility back, pray for an end to the Trump administration. Because his entire brand is dividing the country. Also we have people being put in camps on mass for minor crimes. People who don’t want to be compared to Nazis shouldn’t select a group of people, charge them all with minor crimes and then jail them indefinitely. And then say none of those people deserve due process. The comparisons write themselves at that point. Right P6 no progress has been made on the last 40 years because of an incident at a protest earlier this year. Gay marriage wasn't legalized. Women aren't graduating college at higher rates than men, and the wage gap hasn't vanished at the entry-level. Our last president wasn't black. Acceptance of transgender individuals hasn't been rising. Racist attitudes haven't been declining. Your understanding of trends is evidently pathetic. ---------- On to your second paragraph: The Nazis are surely vilified because they detained illegal immigrants at the border for an average of 44 days. Starting WW2 and carrying out the Holocaust were just icing on the cake to you, amirite Plansix? That's the legitimate implication of your assertion. The Nazis weren't the first nationalistic party, nor were they the last. If you were looking for honest comparisons, there's one hundred other nationalist/restrictionist movements to pick from. But I guess that wouldn't have the same dramatic effect, would it? But whatever, since the other side is acting like children than it's totally fine for you and your ilk to as well. Right? "When they go low, we go slightly less low!" Europe is currently having the exact same debate over refugees and restrictions policies, but--again--it's only the US Republican party that is somehow regularly associated with Nazis for having a nationalist strain. Hell, Erdogan got reelected today and Xi Jinpeng appointed himself dictator for life several months so (both on nationalist platforms btw) and neither of them even got the Nazi comparison. There is no standard that holds across time nor national borders where cries of "Nazism" and "morally irredeemable" aren't inconsistent. This "GOP = Nazi" meme is something that needs to be taken behind the barn and shot. You're (and this applies to most posters here) not changing anyone's mind by being blatantly disingenuous. You're just part of the machine that whips up Democratic turnout and further poisons the discourse/state of politics in this country (as Russia has evidently also figured out). The fact that the GOP has Fox News that serves the same function doesn't excuse your participation in the vicious cycle. | ||
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