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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
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On June 25 2018 23:16 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 23:11 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 23:06 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 23:04 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 23:01 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 22:55 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 22:26 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 21:34 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs in the US that everything gets the 'Three minutes of hate' treatment, on both sides of the aisle. Mrs Sanders gets denied service at a restaurant - outrage, never mind that they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they like. Trump has two ice cream scoops while everyone else at the table has one - outrage, never mind that it's not your business what Trump eats. Everyone hates each other, and there is no dialogue.
If people can get riled up over such irrelevant issues, there is no chance for compromise on any of the important issues that the country faces.
Sad! it is unfortunate indeed; and a sad state of affairs. but such is the path the republicans choose. It is sad that in one breath you acknowledge this and in another lay blame. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution Laying blame where blame is warranted is fine. Unless you're saying criminals should not be held accountable for their actions? Do you have any substance to backup your points? or just more false equivalencies wherein you ignore the reality of what happened? The post you responded too was not about that though, you hijacked it to blame one side when it was about both sides causing problems. I can not tell if you have no reading comprehension or are just so blinded by anger and self righteousness to actually read. As for your other questions. I think our criminal justice system needs to be completely changed. It should be about rehabilitation not punishment. How it works now is bad, it is not working. I don't have all the answers but I would look to some of the European nations who's crime rates are falling for answers. you're ignoring the reality that one side VERY MUCH is the source of the problems. sometimes one side started the tit for tat war; you're ignoring that. all you have is unjustified insults that come from you not looking at the actual situation. No I fully understand that YOU believe that one side is very much the problem. What you seem to not understand is that this is not a math equation, people have different opinions on the matter. And in a free country they are allowed to have those opinions. And you are overreacting to me because you believe I don't share your political beliefs. Edit: I mean you did also PM me yesterday to insult me. Seriously, go back to my earlier posts that raged you all up. And read them as if I am a democrat, see how angry you get. it's not just me that believes it; there's ample documentation to show that it's a reasonable belief. and there's been massive amount of argumentation to demonstrate that it is in fact true; you're ignoring all that and pretending that all opinions are equally valid no matter the evidence for them. I'm overreacting because I'm a very overreactive person; I do it to everyone no matter what their beliefs are. I oppose people being willfully wrong; I support the truth. What is it that you think I am saying and that you disagree with? And if you admit you are overreacting, and you know this is a weakness of yourself, perhaps you should seek some counseling to correct it. It is not a behavior to be proud of or to help you have good relationships.
I'm fully aware of my own issues and do work on them; I have a long list of mental health problems.
but unlike you, I acknowledge them; rather than pretending to not have them.
I'm not going to discuss anymore with you; and am putting you on ignore, since you've shown an extensive history of arguing in bad faith and unjustified frequent insults, and I see no reason to suffer more stress from those unwilling to be reasonable and civil.
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On June 25 2018 23:15 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 23:11 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 23:04 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 22:59 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 22:50 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 22:32 Gahlo wrote:On June 25 2018 22:26 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 21:34 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs in the US that everything gets the 'Three minutes of hate' treatment, on both sides of the aisle. Mrs Sanders gets denied service at a restaurant - outrage, never mind that they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they like. Trump has two ice cream scoops while everyone else at the table has one - outrage, never mind that it's not your business what Trump eats. Everyone hates each other, and there is no dialogue.
If people can get riled up over such irrelevant issues, there is no chance for compromise on any of the important issues that the country faces.
Sad! it is unfortunate indeed; and a sad state of affairs. but such is the path the republicans choose. It is sad that in one breath you acknowledge this and in another lay blame. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution Looking for reasoned debate and discussion in how we got into this situation in the first place. It only works if both sides wish to do it. One side doubled down and gave us Trump. From the outside to me it looked more like they didn't think it would really happen and then were not that excited when it did. But then are now backing him because he is "one of them". The whole thing is people have to communicate to understand other peoples perspective, this involves listening and not just waiting to respond. There is a large group of Americans who feel so strongly about anti abortion legislation that would it be good if they stopped serving or talking to anyone who voted for planned parenthood? ( I myself am pro choice just bringing up a hot button issue for some). It would not be good to get to a point where Dems and Reps can't eat in the same restaurants or shop at the same stores. I get this is the slipper slope argument, but there is so much tit for tat going on and each side is cheering for people who do the wrong shit as long as they think it is against the right person. This isn’t about Republicans or Democrats. The restaurant served Republicans that day and has served them since. This is about the Press Sectary for an abusive administration that functions on grievance and pitting Americans against each other. She was singled out for her actions, not for being a Republican. Straight up, if Ted Cruz had shown up, they likely would have served him. This is about Trump and the people who lie for him every day. I understand that. But I'm extrapolating to the future. You know a Rep who owns something is going to look for someone to not serve and so on and so forth. I mean just look at the anger on both sides this relatively innocuous act created. My actual opinion on the matter (which I have not stated but got assumed and then argued, which is quite funny). Is that the actual act was not a huge deal, but that the story and how big it has become and the rage it induces on both sides is a big problem. The future is that valuing civility isn’t going to come back until Trump is out of office. If folks valued it right now, he wouldn’t be president. People dislike him don’t want to “turn the other cheek” or “go high” because they feel like they are being taken advantage of. Trump fires people up, starts fight, lights fires and they are expected to be the adult in the room. Civility might start to be valued and modeled if Congress starts punishing Trump enflaming tensions. Perhaps, and I'm not saying it is easy. But it is a heck of lot harder to clean up then it is to get down and dirty.
It is much easier to encourage civility when our leader models it. Just like it is easier to encourage obeying the law when our leader models it. Leadership starts at the top and right no one up there gives a shit about civility enough to oppose the president. And as the country becomes less civil as a result, they will blame us taking things to far.
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On June 25 2018 23:06 JimmiC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 23:04 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 23:01 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 22:55 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 22:26 JimmiC wrote:On June 25 2018 21:34 zlefin wrote:On June 25 2018 21:24 gobbledydook wrote:
It is a sad state of affairs in the US that everything gets the 'Three minutes of hate' treatment, on both sides of the aisle. Mrs Sanders gets denied service at a restaurant - outrage, never mind that they have the right to serve or not serve anyone they like. Trump has two ice cream scoops while everyone else at the table has one - outrage, never mind that it's not your business what Trump eats. Everyone hates each other, and there is no dialogue.
If people can get riled up over such irrelevant issues, there is no chance for compromise on any of the important issues that the country faces.
Sad! it is unfortunate indeed; and a sad state of affairs. but such is the path the republicans choose. It is sad that in one breath you acknowledge this and in another lay blame. You sir are part of the problem, not the solution Laying blame where blame is warranted is fine. Unless you're saying criminals should not be held accountable for their actions? Do you have any substance to backup your points? or just more false equivalencies wherein you ignore the reality of what happened? The post you responded too was not about that though, you hijacked it to blame one side when it was about both sides causing problems. I can not tell if you have no reading comprehension or are just so blinded by anger and self righteousness to actually read. As for your other questions. I think our criminal justice system needs to be completely changed. It should be about rehabilitation not punishment. How it works now is bad, it is not working. I don't have all the answers but I would look to some of the European nations who's crime rates are falling for answers. you're ignoring the reality that one side VERY MUCH is the source of the problems. sometimes one side started the tit for tat war; you're ignoring that. all you have is unjustified insults that come from you not looking at the actual situation. No I fully understand that YOU believe that one side is very much the problem. What you seem to not understand is that this is not a math equation, people have different opinions on the matter. And in a free country they are allowed to have those opinions. And you are overreacting to me because you believe I don't share your political beliefs. Edit: I mean you did also PM me yesterday to insult me. Seriously, go back to my earlier posts that raged you all up. And read them as if I am a democrat, see how angry you get.
The centrist (both sides need to address hypocrisy in their own ranks//both sides too devoted to outrage peddling) inspiring rage for not assigning more blame principally to one side from the outset is a good analogy to what's happening in politics today. Insulting PMs too. It's politics. People will disagree. Things will fit and be explained by a different perspective and worldview. I think JimmiC is missing how much different values impact what is and isn't hypocrisy within the 2+ camps. That's just flawed reasoning or information in my view, but very understandable given the current state of politics.
It's nothing suggesting he is "ignoring" "one side started the tit for tat war," or accusing him of "unjustified insults that come from you not looking at the actual situation."
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Harley Davidson is going to be moving its EU production overseas in response to the EU tariffs, so that is a bunch of US jobs leaving for Europe.
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You can’t elect Donald Trump and then pretend everything is fine and normal. Compare Donald Trump to any other president and you have your answer. Sarah Sanders is the literal mouthpiece for Donald Trump (and since we know he isn’t truthful, what does that say) and she really has sacrificed her credibility and moral standing in the process. It’s not a matter of “oh you just disagree with our politics” it’s a matter of Donald Trump.
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On June 25 2018 23:38 Plansix wrote:
Harley Davidson is going to be moving its EU production overseas in response to the EU tariffs, so that is a bunch of US jobs leaving for Europe.
Darn I thought the tariffs had a chance at being effective.
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On June 25 2018 23:40 Doodsmack wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 23:38 Plansix wrote:
Harley Davidson is going to be moving its EU production overseas in response to the EU tariffs, so that is a bunch of US jobs leaving for Europe. Darn I thought the tariffs had a chance at being effective.
Ha, hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
That was honestly the best joke I've heard since the most recent John Oliver. People shouted from the rooftops that this shit would happen, and what do you know. The chickens have come to roost. So much #winning.
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On June 25 2018 22:30 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 22:18 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 22:01 xDaunt wrote:On June 25 2018 21:54 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 21:44 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2018 21:35 farvacola wrote:
The US is indeed subject to a sad state of affairs, but it has nothing to do with that tangled mess of a false equivalence in comparison. Folks who are anti-Trump have offered a voluminous number of substantive objections to how he runs (or doesn't) the White House, in this very thread no less, so I dunno why you'd focus on some random ice cream thing as though that's the face of anti-Trump criticism. Because picking actual meaningful criticisms means he had to defend what Trump does and no one wants to do that. You hit the nail on the head. Conservative posters flocked to the thread to decry the Sanders being denied service. Not the 2000 kids being taken away from their families through threat of force. It was pretty clear to me that y’all weren’t up to having an adult conversation on that one. So yeah, no thanks. So that wasn’t an adult discussion, but Red Hen was? Not buying it. Of course Red Hen wasn’t. Almost a dozen liberal posters expressed hatred or contempt for conservatives/Republicans, even casually throwing in Nazi references and comparisons. It was an utter disgrace, not that I expect to see any remorse. People expressed contempt and hatred for a women who's job it is to lie to the American people and defend the deplorable actions of Trump.
stop equating an attack on Trump and his supporters as an attack on all conservatives/Republicans.
This is tribalism at its finest. "Someone attacked someone on roughly my side so I must defend him/her regardless of if the criticism was justified"
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The saddest unintended consequence is how the US nail industry is taking it the teeth due to the tariffs. And if that industry has a production short fall or has massive layoffs, it means fewer nails nationwide. And if you have done any home construction ever, nails are a critical part of the process.
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I will say that the Nazi comparisons being bandied about in the liberal sphere since the families were separated seem a bit nutty. While Trumps use of dehumanizing language certainly correlates with some step on the scale leading to genocide, and if there were no laws there would probably be genocide in America, the thing is that our democracy is actually really solid and the executive is checked.
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On June 25 2018 23:56 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2018 22:30 xDaunt wrote:On June 25 2018 22:18 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 22:01 xDaunt wrote:On June 25 2018 21:54 Plansix wrote:On June 25 2018 21:44 Gorsameth wrote:On June 25 2018 21:35 farvacola wrote:
The US is indeed subject to a sad state of affairs, but it has nothing to do with that tangled mess of a false equivalence in comparison. Folks who are anti-Trump have offered a voluminous number of substantive objections to how he runs (or doesn't) the White House, in this very thread no less, so I dunno why you'd focus on some random ice cream thing as though that's the face of anti-Trump criticism. Because picking actual meaningful criticisms means he had to defend what Trump does and no one wants to do that. You hit the nail on the head. Conservative posters flocked to the thread to decry the Sanders being denied service. Not the 2000 kids being taken away from their families through threat of force. It was pretty clear to me that y’all weren’t up to having an adult conversation on that one. So yeah, no thanks. So that wasn’t an adult discussion, but Red Hen was? Not buying it. Of course Red Hen wasn’t. Almost a dozen liberal posters expressed hatred or contempt for conservatives/Republicans, even casually throwing in Nazi references and comparisons. It was an utter disgrace, not that I expect to see any remorse. People expressed contempt and hatred for a women who's job it is to lie to the American people and defend the deplorable actions of Trump. stop equating an attack on Trump and his supporters as an attack on all conservatives/Republicans. This is tribalism at its finest. "Someone attacked someone on roughly my side so I must defend him/her regardless of if the criticism was justified"
This is a specious argument. In case you haven't noticed roughly half of the country supports Trump, and depending upon the policy, sometimes significant majorities support him. There are very few policies, if any, that Trump has pursued that are grossly unpopular. Saying that this is just about Trump and his administration is inaccurate at best and disingenuous at worst. Besides, your attempt at limiting the impact of the attack looks particularly ridiculous in light of posts like the following:
On June 25 2018 13:49 KwarK wrote:
It’s just a weird time for politics. Half the country learned they were deplorable people and instead of going “shit, how did I get here and what should I do to stop being deplorable?” decided to put “proud to be deplorable” on shirts, make deplorable part of their identity, and move all the way into victimhood. They now feel that people are unfairly discriminating against deplorable people and want deplorable rights enshrined in law.
Weird time.
If you truly believe the Red Hen thing (and other similar events) should not be construed as an attack on conservatives in general, then you need to address posts like Kwark's accordingly.
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How is Kwarks post directly related to the red hen thing? Furthermore how is it wrong and with what exactly do you disagree in it?
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Half the country does not support Trump. He has a 40% approval rating, which is well less than half. The approval rating is a binary option of approving of the actions the current administration, with no room for nuance. His base supports him, which is a section of self identifying Republicans. They represent around 24-30% of the population.
This isn’t even “about half”. You have to round up a whole lot to get it to be half the country. And lets not even get into the immigration arguments, because the hardline immigration stance does not have wide support.
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On June 26 2018 00:30 Velr wrote:
How is Kwarks post directly related to the red hen thing? Furthermore how is it wrong and with what exactly do you disagree in it?
Go read up in the thread. This was one post of several in which Kwark directly addressed the Red Hen thing. The bottom line is that he was very clear in attacking not just the Trump administration, but the American right in general.
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The idea that folks who are allegedly tarring conservatives in general by supporting Sanders' ostracization must explain and account for the words of someone who supposedly belongs to a group entitled "folks who are allegedly tarring conservatives in general by supporting Sanders' ostracization" is hilariously internally inconsistent, if not unsurprisingly so.
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United States42270 Posts
Someone refusing to serve you based upon your conduct is not an attack, it’s the basis of the entire social contract. This shit about how it’s an “attack on conservatives” is laughable.
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United States42270 Posts
On June 26 2018 00:34 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:30 Velr wrote:
How is Kwarks post directly related to the red hen thing? Furthermore how is it wrong and with what exactly do you disagree in it? Go read up in the thread. This was one post of several in which Kwark directly addressed the Red Hen thing. The bottom line is that he was very clear in attacking not just the Trump administration, but the American right in general.
The post you quoted wasn’t about the Sanders incident, it was about the fragile conservative victim identity in general. It’s as much about red cups and Happy Holidays as this. Conservatives have a desperate need to feel oppressed by the world these days.
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EPT
