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On June 26 2018 00:33 Plansix wrote:
Half the country does not support Trump. He has a 40% approval rating, which is well less than half. The approval rating is a binary option of approving of the actions the current administration, with no room for nuance. His base supports him, which is a section of self identifying Republicans. They represent around 24-30% of the population.
This isn’t even “about half”. You have to round up a whole lot to get it to be half the country. And lets not even get into the immigration arguments, because the hardline immigration stance does not have wide support.
Oh really?
As Townhall previously reported, a CBS poll released today showed that more Americans than not want illegal alien families either detained or deported all together. But, that same poll shows that 51% of Americans believe that a wall along the United States southern border is a good thing, even if that that structure does not span coast-to-coast.
According to the poll, 32% of Americans believe that "a wall along the U.S. Mexican border" is a "good idea that can probably be completed." 19% of those polled answered that the wall is a "a good idea that should be tried, even if it cannot be completed." 48% of the 2063 adults polled said the wall was a "bad idea."
Source.
For the first time since President Donald Trump took office, the CNBC All-America Economic Survey shows more than half the public approving his handling of the economy, and it appears to be having some impact on his overall job approval rating.
The president’s economic approval rating surged 6 points to 51 percent with just 36 percent of the public disapproving, a 6 point drop from the March Survey.
Source.
President Donald Trump has faced intense, sustained backlash to his immigration policies even after a partial reversal of course.
But even as Trump's officials are shouted out of restaurants and called fascists to their faces, Trump's polling numbers have been steady — even rising — over the past several weeks.
A Gallup poll and the RealClearPolitics average of polls both put Trump around a 45% approval rating, with that number rising steadily throughout June. That's just one point lower than Barack Obama was at this point in his presidency.
Source.
Pay particular attention to that last line about the similarity with Obama's rating at this point in his presidency. So yeah, I think stating "roughly half of Americans" support Trump is about right. And in case you haven't noticed, his numbers are trending upwards, despite all of the ridiculously bad press, despite all of the Russian collusion nonsense, and despite the half-hearted backing from his own party.
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So why didn't you pick one of these posts? Thats bad lawyering.
Also, afaik there is no general ban on republicans in the red hen and therefore the cases are not really comparable.
And still, how is he wrong?
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They didn’t deny all Republicans service. Or the right. Just Sanders. The attempts to frame it as an attack on conservatives are purely an effort by conservatives to fuel their culture wars argument. The persecution complex in action.
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On June 25 2018 23:38 Plansix wrote:
Harley Davidson is going to be moving its EU production overseas in response to the EU tariffs, so that is a bunch of US jobs leaving for Europe.
The factories for this were started more than a year ago. It's just a good PR stunt for them to blame trump at this point.
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On June 26 2018 00:41 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:33 Plansix wrote:
Half the country does not support Trump. He has a 40% approval rating, which is well less than half. The approval rating is a binary option of approving of the actions the current administration, with no room for nuance. His base supports him, which is a section of self identifying Republicans. They represent around 24-30% of the population.
This isn’t even “about half”. You have to round up a whole lot to get it to be half the country. And lets not even get into the immigration arguments, because the hardline immigration stance does not have wide support. Oh really? Show nested quote +As Townhall previously reported, a CBS poll released today showed that more Americans than not want illegal alien families either detained or deported all together. But, that same poll shows that 51% of Americans believe that a wall along the United States southern border is a good thing, even if that that structure does not span coast-to-coast.
According to the poll, 32% of Americans believe that "a wall along the U.S. Mexican border" is a "good idea that can probably be completed." 19% of those polled answered that the wall is a "a good idea that should be tried, even if it cannot be completed." 48% of the 2063 adults polled said the wall was a "bad idea." Source. Show nested quote +For the first time since President Donald Trump took office, the CNBC All-America Economic Survey shows more than half the public approving his handling of the economy, and it appears to be having some impact on his overall job approval rating.
The president’s economic approval rating surged 6 points to 51 percent with just 36 percent of the public disapproving, a 6 point drop from the March Survey. Source. Show nested quote +President Donald Trump has faced intense, sustained backlash to his immigration policies even after a partial reversal of course.
But even as Trump's officials are shouted out of restaurants and called fascists to their faces, Trump's polling numbers have been steady — even rising — over the past several weeks.
A Gallup poll and the RealClearPolitics average of polls both put Trump around a 45% approval rating, with that number rising steadily throughout June. That's just one point lower than Barack Obama was at this point in his presidency. Source. Pay particular attention to that last line about the similarity with Obama's rating at this point in his presidency. So yeah, I think stating "roughly half of Americans" support Trump is about right. And in case you haven't noticed, his numbers are trending upwards, despite all of the ridiculously bad press, despite all of the Russian collusion nonsense, and despite the half-hearted backing from his own party.
This argument boils down to flattening approval rating polls to say around 50% of the country agrees with any president at any given time. Obama at his worst is equal to Trump at his best, so half the country supports both. A 55% approval rating is close to a 45%, even though there is a 10 point split. This style of argument flattens all nuance out of the discussion and leaves us with a vector to justify any policy at any time.
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United Kingdom10011 Posts
On June 26 2018 00:41 Plansix wrote:
They didn’t deny all Republicans service. Or the right. Just Sanders. The attempts to frame it as an attack on conservatives are purely an effort by conservatives to fuel their culture wars argument. The persecution complex in action.
I'm sure they wouldn't have refused her service if they knew how oppressed it would make republicans feel.
Still, at least they are taking it well:
The Hartford Courant newspaper on Sunday reported that a restaurant called the Red Hen in Old Saybrook, Connecticut, entirely unconnected to the Red Hen restaurant in Lexington, Virginia, where Sanders and her party had been confronted, was being flooded messages from members of the public who support Trump, threatening to organize a boycott and saying things such as: “You’re done, and we’re coming to get you’.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jun/25/donald-trump-sarah-sanders-red-hen-restaurant-virginia
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On June 26 2018 00:49 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:41 xDaunt wrote:On June 26 2018 00:33 Plansix wrote:
Half the country does not support Trump. He has a 40% approval rating, which is well less than half. The approval rating is a binary option of approving of the actions the current administration, with no room for nuance. His base supports him, which is a section of self identifying Republicans. They represent around 24-30% of the population.
This isn’t even “about half”. You have to round up a whole lot to get it to be half the country. And lets not even get into the immigration arguments, because the hardline immigration stance does not have wide support. Oh really? As Townhall previously reported, a CBS poll released today showed that more Americans than not want illegal alien families either detained or deported all together. But, that same poll shows that 51% of Americans believe that a wall along the United States southern border is a good thing, even if that that structure does not span coast-to-coast.
According to the poll, 32% of Americans believe that "a wall along the U.S. Mexican border" is a "good idea that can probably be completed." 19% of those polled answered that the wall is a "a good idea that should be tried, even if it cannot be completed." 48% of the 2063 adults polled said the wall was a "bad idea." Source. For the first time since President Donald Trump took office, the CNBC All-America Economic Survey shows more than half the public approving his handling of the economy, and it appears to be having some impact on his overall job approval rating.
The president’s economic approval rating surged 6 points to 51 percent with just 36 percent of the public disapproving, a 6 point drop from the March Survey. Source. President Donald Trump has faced intense, sustained backlash to his immigration policies even after a partial reversal of course.
But even as Trump's officials are shouted out of restaurants and called fascists to their faces, Trump's polling numbers have been steady — even rising — over the past several weeks.
A Gallup poll and the RealClearPolitics average of polls both put Trump around a 45% approval rating, with that number rising steadily throughout June. That's just one point lower than Barack Obama was at this point in his presidency. Source. Pay particular attention to that last line about the similarity with Obama's rating at this point in his presidency. So yeah, I think stating "roughly half of Americans" support Trump is about right. And in case you haven't noticed, his numbers are trending upwards, despite all of the ridiculously bad press, despite all of the Russian collusion nonsense, and despite the half-hearted backing from his own party. This argument boils down to flattening approval rating polls to say around 50% of the country agrees with any president at any given time. Obama at his worst is equal to Trump at his best, so half the country supports both. A 55% approval rating is close to a 45%, even though there is a 10 point split. This style of argument flattens all nuance out of the discussion and leaves us with a vector to justify any policy at any time.
Obama at his worst? Please. You need to go look at the facts before you start spouting off. Obama's average approval rating for his entire presidency was only 47.9%. And that was with the benefit of a honeymoon period that Trump never got. Oh, and let's not forget the systemic bias issues with polling on Trump that we learned about following the election. Just as his support back then was under-reported by roughly 5%, I would expect his numbers to be similarly depressed now. Who the hell wants to admit to supporting Trump in this environment? Not many when the left has declared open season on his supporters.
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Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different.
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On June 25 2018 23:38 Plansix wrote:
Harley Davidson is going to be moving its EU production overseas in response to the EU tariffs, so that is a bunch of US jobs leaving for Europe.
Harley's in the news for stocks today, but even moreso the tech industry...
NEW YORK (AP) - U.S. stocks are falling Monday morning following losses in Europe and Asia, and technology companies are skidding after The Wall Street Journal reported that the Trump administration plans to limit high-tech exports to China and will limit Chinese investment in American technology companies. Harley-Davidson is falling after it said it will shift the production of some motorcycles to Europe in response to taxes the EU put on U.S. exports.
https://www.fox13memphis.com/news/stocks-fall-on-report-us-may-limit-tech-exports-to-china/776694820
My tech stocks that have been doing well for quite some time now are taking the biggest single-day hit ever. Activision-Blizzard, Adobe, Amazon, Facebook, Netflix, Nvidia... all totally getting creamed at the moment. It'll recover in a day or so I'm sure, but any time Trump feels like mentioning a trade war/ threat or saying something stupid about an industry, people lose money.
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These conservative calls for civility are laughable. You don't get to be treated with respect just by existing. It's the equivalent of 'it's just a prank bro' where youtubers actively insult people or scare people, and then act surprised when those same people don't react with civility but with anger when they are scared for their lives or you insulted their race.
'It's just a job bro'. No. When you are Huckabee Sanders and you use your job as a public informer and replace information with verifiable lies, when you change from being a channel for communication between public(in the form of press) and the president, and replace that with one way traffic of insults for the press, you cannot expect people to applaud you for it. She actively harms the society in a big way.
Actions define who you are. Actions also have consequences. Harm people, and those people will get upset, and they are correct to be upset too. The solution is not for those people to act civil and accept a middle ground where they are harmed half as bad. The solution is for you to stop harming people.
The worst part of this discussion is that your president and his spokesmen on Fox have actively campaigned to stop the most civil of protests: Kneeling. It's basically an admission that you don't tolerate any opposition at all.
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It would be good to look at Trumps average approval rating, which is historically low. Looking at the recent rise only is cherry picking. It’s also a bump from the North Korea talks. For Trump to have been at 40 or below at all is actually atrocious. He was only elected by against because of the person he ran against, and his administration is a joke that is unlike all other administrations, in a very bad way. This is why his lying, joke of a mouthpiece got kicked out. The only two people who have sacrificed their credibility more than Sanders are Kellyanne Conway and Ronna McDaniel, the RNC spokeswoman. McDaniel is an actual cartoon in her statements supporting Trump.
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On June 26 2018 00:58 Artisreal wrote:
Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different.
Of course I can. No one with any intellectual integrity conflates what happened in Charlottesville with Republicans and Trump supporters in general.
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United States44386 Posts
On June 26 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:58 Artisreal wrote:
Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different. Of course I can. No one with any intellectual integrity conflates what happened in Charlottesville with Republicans and Trump supporters in general.
That’d feel more true if Trump didn’t call them very fine people and actively court Nazi support by repeating their propaganda.
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On June 26 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:58 Artisreal wrote:
Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different. Of course I can. No one with any intellectual integrity conflates what happened in Charlottesville with Republicans and Trump supporters in general.
Is it not the very opposite? Only that if you lack any integrity whatsoever that you cannot.
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On June 26 2018 00:56 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 00:49 Plansix wrote:On June 26 2018 00:41 xDaunt wrote:On June 26 2018 00:33 Plansix wrote:
Half the country does not support Trump. He has a 40% approval rating, which is well less than half. The approval rating is a binary option of approving of the actions the current administration, with no room for nuance. His base supports him, which is a section of self identifying Republicans. They represent around 24-30% of the population.
This isn’t even “about half”. You have to round up a whole lot to get it to be half the country. And lets not even get into the immigration arguments, because the hardline immigration stance does not have wide support. Oh really? As Townhall previously reported, a CBS poll released today showed that more Americans than not want illegal alien families either detained or deported all together. But, that same poll shows that 51% of Americans believe that a wall along the United States southern border is a good thing, even if that that structure does not span coast-to-coast.
According to the poll, 32% of Americans believe that "a wall along the U.S. Mexican border" is a "good idea that can probably be completed." 19% of those polled answered that the wall is a "a good idea that should be tried, even if it cannot be completed." 48% of the 2063 adults polled said the wall was a "bad idea." Source. For the first time since President Donald Trump took office, the CNBC All-America Economic Survey shows more than half the public approving his handling of the economy, and it appears to be having some impact on his overall job approval rating.
The president’s economic approval rating surged 6 points to 51 percent with just 36 percent of the public disapproving, a 6 point drop from the March Survey. Source. President Donald Trump has faced intense, sustained backlash to his immigration policies even after a partial reversal of course.
But even as Trump's officials are shouted out of restaurants and called fascists to their faces, Trump's polling numbers have been steady — even rising — over the past several weeks.
A Gallup poll and the RealClearPolitics average of polls both put Trump around a 45% approval rating, with that number rising steadily throughout June. That's just one point lower than Barack Obama was at this point in his presidency. Source. Pay particular attention to that last line about the similarity with Obama's rating at this point in his presidency. So yeah, I think stating "roughly half of Americans" support Trump is about right. And in case you haven't noticed, his numbers are trending upwards, despite all of the ridiculously bad press, despite all of the Russian collusion nonsense, and despite the half-hearted backing from his own party. This argument boils down to flattening approval rating polls to say around 50% of the country agrees with any president at any given time. Obama at his worst is equal to Trump at his best, so half the country supports both. A 55% approval rating is close to a 45%, even though there is a 10 point split. This style of argument flattens all nuance out of the discussion and leaves us with a vector to justify any policy at any time. Obama at his worst? Please. You need to go look at the facts before you start spouting off. Obama's average approval rating for his entire presidency was only 47.9%. And that was with the benefit of a honeymoon period that Trump never got. Oh, and let's not forget the systemic bias issues with polling on Trump that we learned about following the election. Just as his support back then was under-reported by roughly 5%, I would expect his numbers to be similarly depressed now. Who the hell wants to admit to supporting Trump in this environment? Not many when the left has declared open season on his supporters.
The fact that you latched onto that specific phrase is an effort to distract from the weakness of your argument. Approval ratings are a poor metric to gauge public support for any specific policy or support for an agenda in general. Your claim that half the country supports Trump does not cannot be proven by simply citing a 45% approval rating. Anyone who has followed politics for any length of time will know that 45% approval rating is terrible, which is why Obama wasn’t able to get as much done as he would have liked. In any other environment where congress wasn’t dominated by a party willing to do whatever the President said, Trump would be dead in the water. Powerless to impact policy, like Bush in the last few years of his presidency. Or Obama in the last few years of his with the Republican dominated congress.
I could go into specifics, like how Trumps handling of the economy has not had its full impact yet and will likely change after the tariffs continue to kill jobs. Or how it the border was as a 48% disapproval rating, which is a good reason no to do something that will cost billions, be litigated to death by land owners and would be wildly unpopular in the states it was being built in.
But you know this. You know that polling is an inaccurate view into the public’s mindset. And that chilling at 40-45% for 2 years is terrible for a president in his first two years of office.
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On June 26 2018 01:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 26 2018 00:58 Artisreal wrote:
Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different. Of course I can. No one with any intellectual integrity conflates what happened in Charlottesville with Republicans and Trump supporters in general. That’d feel more true if Trump didn’t call them very fine people and actively court Nazi support by repeating their propaganda.
Everyone forgets that Bannon was part of the White House and worked with Richard Spencer, Mio, Vox Day and other people to find young, budding racists and cultivate them. We have read the emails. The free speech rally was an extension of those efforts and Richard Spencer attended. People have already forgot about Bannon.
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On June 26 2018 01:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
These conservative calls for civility are laughable. You don't get to be treated with respect just by existing. It's the equivalent of 'it's just a prank bro' where youtubers actively insult people or scare people, and then act surprised when those same people don't react with civility but with anger when they are scared for their lives or you insulted their race.
'It's just a job bro'. No. When you are Huckabee Sanders and you use your job as a public informer and replace information with verifiable lies, when you change from being a channel for communication between public(in the form of press) and the president, and replace that with one way traffic of insults for the press, you cannot expect people to applaud you for it. She actively harms the society in a big way.
Actions define who you are. Actions also have consequences. Harm people, and those people will get upset, and they are correct to be upset too. The solution is not for those people to act civil and accept a middle ground where they are harmed half as bad. The solution is for you to stop harming people.
The worst part of this discussion is that your president and his spokesmen on Fox have actively campaigned to stop the most civil of protests: Kneeling. It's basically an admission that you don't tolerate any opposition at all.
Exact opposite. You should be able to treat the opposing side with civility in daily interactions. Yes, that’s just for existing. Otherwise, society falls apart. Adults should be able to separate respect (more or less earned) from basic civility (we disagree, but don’t have to ruin each other’s lives over it). If that’s a bridge too far, you just weren’t cut out for democracy, and should look towards more authoritarian systems of government to settle into. Don’t ruin the democracies that exist through the destruction of the underlying civil society.
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United States44386 Posts
On June 26 2018 01:15 Danglars wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 01:01 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:
These conservative calls for civility are laughable. You don't get to be treated with respect just by existing. It's the equivalent of 'it's just a prank bro' where youtubers actively insult people or scare people, and then act surprised when those same people don't react with civility but with anger when they are scared for their lives or you insulted their race.
'It's just a job bro'. No. When you are Huckabee Sanders and you use your job as a public informer and replace information with verifiable lies, when you change from being a channel for communication between public(in the form of press) and the president, and replace that with one way traffic of insults for the press, you cannot expect people to applaud you for it. She actively harms the society in a big way.
Actions define who you are. Actions also have consequences. Harm people, and those people will get upset, and they are correct to be upset too. The solution is not for those people to act civil and accept a middle ground where they are harmed half as bad. The solution is for you to stop harming people.
The worst part of this discussion is that your president and his spokesmen on Fox have actively campaigned to stop the most civil of protests: Kneeling. It's basically an admission that you don't tolerate any opposition at all. Exact opposite. You should be able to treat the opposing side with civility in daily interactions. Yes, that’s just for existing. Otherwise, society falls apart. Adults should be able to separate respect (more or less earned) from basic civility (we disagree, but don’t have to ruin each other’s lives over it). If that’s a bridge too far, you just weren’t cut out for democracy, and should look towards more authoritarian systems of government to settle into. Don’t ruin the democracies that exist through the destruction of the underlying civil society.
Do we need GH to quote MLK’s letters about white moderates valuing civility over justice again? You can’t do whatever the hell you please and demand nobody be upset about it. Democracy means I won’t shoot you over it. But it also means I’ll call you out and hold you accountable for your actions.
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On June 26 2018 01:08 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 01:04 xDaunt wrote:On June 26 2018 00:58 Artisreal wrote:
Are you sure that in the wake of Charlottesville you can dare to make the argument that people arnt proud trum supporters?
Maybe some people are ashamed of their choice now the monster is set loose, but that's entirely different. Of course I can. No one with any intellectual integrity conflates what happened in Charlottesville with Republicans and Trump supporters in general. That’d feel more true if Trump didn’t call them very fine people and actively court Nazi support by repeating their propaganda.
Trumps tweet of the Star of David next to dollar signs was not an accident.
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At least we can say that Danglars is consistent on this issue, cause I remember that when entire crowds of people chanted "lock her up" about their political opposition and his preferred candidate encouraged this, he was really upset about this egregious lack of civility.
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EPT
