EPTUS Politics Mega-thread - Page 2520
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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8013 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
On July 27 2020 01:01 Biff The Understudy wrote: Whatever man, you are just not willing to listen to what I am saying nor read what that article says. This is going nowhere again. I was listening and have a deeper understanding of DW-Nominate scores now as a result (from my research into what I assert are your faulty interpretations of the data cited to support your argument). Part of the point of them is so we can at a glance know that Kamala Harris is way more liberal than Joe Biden by this metric and Klobuchar is slightly more conservative than Joe Biden. Harris is ~0.3+ away from Joe while Amy is ~0.03. So (on this scale/by this metric) Biden is more than 10x closer to Conservative Dem Klobuchar, than he is to Liberal Dem Kamala Harris. It's far more common to have people between -0.1 and 0.1 historically, compared to near/at the -1 or 1 (there probably have been some, I didn't check every senator/congressman ever personally) Manchin is someone that falls in that range at -0.056. Besides comparing people that may not have voted on the same things, these scores are for assessing something like "Is Joe Biden politically closer to Elizabeth Warren and Kamala Harris or Joe Manchin and Susan Collins, Well according to the DW-Nominate scores He's closer to the Republicans Like Susan Collins than he is to Warren or Harris. Because the party is closer to Republicans like Collins than they are Harris or Warren according to this metric that places Biden consistently in the middle of it. It also tells us Hillary and Obama are ideologically closer to Biden than they are to Warren or Bernie even though they are all on Biden's left.+ Show Spoiler + I still can't wrap my head around Harris and I guess no on is going to even take a crack at it but whatever | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
The Republican citations are weak. One of the arguments debt hawks have made for decades is to reduce the federal debt so more is available to spend in a crisis. A pandemic that's this communicable and happens something like once per century qualifies as a crisis. So the Romney and others are just continuing a mainstream GOP view that's been around for ages. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22170 Posts
On July 27 2020 02:01 Danglars wrote: Yes you should spend in a pandemic. But the problem is that the GOP only ever talks about being debt hawks and never actually does it when they have the opportunity to reduce the debt.The Republican citations are weak. One of the arguments debt hawks have made for decades is to reduce the federal debt so more is available to spend in a crisis. A pandemic that's this communicable and happens something like once per century qualifies as a crisis. So the Romney and others are just continuing a mainstream GOP view that's been around for ages. They only complain about the deficit when its Democrats spending money. I assume I don't have to show you what Republican control of Congress from 2015 to 2019 did to the debt? | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 27 2020 02:10 Gorsameth wrote: Yes you should spend in a pandemic. But the problem is that the GOP only ever talks about being debt hawks and never actually does it when they have the opportunity to reduce the debt. They only complain about the deficit when its Democrats spending money. I assume I don't have to show you what Republican control of Congress from 2015 to 2019 did to the debt? They broke those style of promises long before 2015, haha. Debt ceiling standoffs that resulted in capitulation was long before, as well as the expensive and redundant DHS department long before. Almost like a big govt type (unapologetic this time around) like Trump could only rise in such a discredited party. You don’t have to think politicians delivered to study their rhetoric and platforms, do you? | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8013 Posts
On July 27 2020 02:01 Danglars wrote: The Republican citations are weak. One of the arguments debt hawks have made for decades is to reduce the federal debt so more is available to spend in a crisis. A pandemic that's this communicable and happens something like once per century qualifies as a crisis. So the Romney and others are just continuing a mainstream GOP view that's been around for ages. Well it doesn't work like that. It's not like the federal government has money under a pillow so if it doesn't spend it now it has more in case of a crisis. Also, the GOP has never even tried to reduce the deficit when it was in power. It was always about tax cuts for the absolute richest. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On July 27 2020 06:21 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well it doesn't work like that. It's not like the federal government has money under a pillow so if it doesn't spend it now it has more in case of a crisis. Also, the GOP has never even tried to reduce the deficit when it was in power. It was always about tax cuts for the absolute richest. I need a bit more than "it doesn't work like that" and "it's not like the federal government has money under a pillow." But seeing as how nobody can separate "the arguments debt hawks make" from "they've never taken power and rarely done it," we're just chasing moving goalposts that started at some insane point about Republicans and spending in a crisis. The flight from that point is proof enough for me. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:06 GreenHorizons wrote: We're about 60 days from the debates (if there are going to be any) and 100 days from the election. For scale, Mayor Pete's primary campaign officially lasted ~300 days. You voting Biden? | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
Hell no. | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:11 IgnE wrote: Who are you writing in? Probably no one, La Riva/Peltier will likely qualify to be on the ballot in my state though. So I'l probably vote for them, if I bother. Assata & Tupac Shakur would probably be my write-in though. If Joe Biden lost Washington it'd be part of a much larger and catastrophic loss, so there's no reason for me to concede so much integrity for nothing. | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
You do realize you're wasting your vote if you don't? I understand your idealism I even share a lot of it. But a vote that isn't for one of the two parties is wasted. You must understand that. You stand to gain nothing for voting for someone else, and in fact you might actually be hurting your cause. I supported Bernie in both elections. Trust me, I know what the motivation is, but the reality doesn't change just because we feel strongly about it. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:45 Vindicare605 wrote: You do realize you're wasting your vote if you don't? You understand the two party fptp electoral college system already made it a waste no matter who I vote for, right? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:47 GreenHorizons wrote: You understand the two party fptp electoral college system already made it a waste no matter who I vote for, right? Depends what state you're in honestly. My friend is doing like you, he's writing in Bernie in November. Because we live in California, it doesn't really matter since CA is going blue no matter what he does. If you live in Florida, Ohio or another swing state, I'd HIGHLY advise not doing that because in those states it actually DOES matter. Again, someone as passionate about politics as you should understand that. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:51 Vindicare605 wrote: Depends what state you're in honestly. My friend is doing like you, he's writing in Bernie in November. Because we live in California, it doesn't really matter since CA is going blue no matter what he does. If you live in Florida, Ohio or another swing state, I'd HIGHLY advise not doing that because in those states it actually DOES matter. Again, someone as passionate about politics as you should understand that. No idea why you would assume I'm not fully aware of everything you said and that I don't obviously fall into one of those blue states where my vote for president doesn't matter (my vote doesn't even usually get counted before there's a winner announced locally and nationally)? But I'm not writing in Bernie, because that's silly imo, he wants his supporters to vote Biden and they should if they follow Bernie rather than have a leftist ideology independent of Bernie Sanders. Bernie doesn't want your friends vote, he wants them to rally around the establishment they both know is corrupt. | ||
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Zambrah
United States7393 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:51 Vindicare605 wrote: Depends what state you're in honestly. My friend is doing like you, he's writing in Bernie in November. Because we live in California, it doesn't really matter since CA is going blue no matter what he does. If you live in Florida, Ohio or another swing state, I'd HIGHLY advise not doing that because in those states it actually DOES matter. Again, someone as passionate about politics as you should understand that. He does, he lives in Washington state, though I wonder if he'd vote Biden if he did live in a swing state. I however live in Virginia and may very well have to suck shit and vote for Joe "Poor kids are as smart as white kids" Biden... These candidates... | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
But I'm not writing in Bernie, because that's silly imo, he wants his supporters to vote Biden and they should if they follow Bernie rather than have a leftist ideology independent of Bernie Sanders. Bernie doesn't want your friends vote, he wants him to rally around the establishment they both know is corrupt. I've already told him that. We've gone back and forth on it already. I'm not assuming anything about you with my statement. I asked you if you knew that you were wasting your vote and you said you did. That's enough. I don't need to try and convince you about why that's such a bad thing with the stakes of this particular election, that's wasted energy. If you know what you're doing and are gonna do it anyway, you're a free American to do whatever you want. I'm free to judge you for it too. | ||
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GreenHorizons
United States23781 Posts
On July 27 2020 09:58 Vindicare605 wrote: I've already told him that. We've gone back and forth on it already. I'm not assuming anything about you with my statement. I asked you if you knew that you were wasting your vote and you said you did. That's enough. I don't need to try and convince you about why that's such a bad thing with the stakes of this particular election, that's wasted energy. If you know what you're doing and are gonna do it anyway, you're a free American to do whatever you want. I'm free to judge you for it too. You act as if I have an alternative to "wasting" my vote? What the hell would I gain by voting Biden besides shared culpability for his corruption, racism, and incompetence with the people who felt they had no choice but become co-conspirators (albeit at the most petty level) or just follow Bernie like a lost puppy? | ||
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Vindicare605
United States16121 Posts
On July 27 2020 10:04 GreenHorizons wrote: You act as if I have an alternative to "wasting" my vote? What the hell would I gain by voting Biden besides shared culpability for his corruption and incompetence with the people who felt they had no choice but become co-conspirators with his corruption (albeit at the most petty level) or just follow Bernie like a lost puppy? You share a part in defeating Trump. As bad as Biden is, he's better than Trump. It's picking the lesser of two evils I know, I get it, but you must agree that 4 years of Biden is DEFINITELY better than 4 more of Trump with a Republican controlled Senate. You must! | ||
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