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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets. Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source. If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3126 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:10 ETisME wrote: how would you rate white supremacy discrimination level of native american Interesting question, should a higher score mean they're more effective at being racist or the racism is more evil? and how does that fair black then? ??? | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5201 Posts
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:13 LightSpectra wrote: Interesting question, should a higher score mean they're more effective at being racist or the racism is more evil? ??? Stay on topic. According you the more discriminated should mean they perform more gun homicide, shouldn't it? Give me a rating then. I am not even against your theory, I just want to hear you admitting white supremacy had it harder on blacks than native Americans. | ||
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:13 Uldridge wrote: Crime is a consequence of a thing, not the thing itself. So why is the crime happening? Since when is crime not happening? Which nation has 0 crime? | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3126 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:14 ETisME wrote: Stay on topic. According you the more discriminated should mean they perform more gun homicide, shouldn't it? Not quite what I said, and moreover discrimination is not a one-dimensional value. Segregating people into urban ghettos versus faraway reserves will result in poverty and crime manifesting in different ways. On July 17 2026 17:17 ETisME wrote: Since when is crime not happening? Which nation has 0 crime? Actual "Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about" moment here. | ||
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:18 LightSpectra wrote: Not quite what I said, and moreover discrimination is not a one-dimensional value. Segregating people into urban ghettos versus faraway reserves will result in poverty and crime manifesting in different ways. well it has to be quantified in some ways in order to come to some conclusion of yours. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5201 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:17 ETisME wrote: Since when is crime not happening? Which nation has 0 crime? I was asking you why the crimes are happening. You're just answering: well, crime, lol. But if you can't be bothered to do some analysis or posit a hypothesis that's also fine. Just say so and I'll move on because it's shitting up the thread with nonsense again. | ||
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:18 LightSpectra wrote: Not quite what I said, and moreover discrimination is not a one-dimensional value. Segregating people into urban ghettos versus faraway reserves will result in poverty and crime manifesting in different ways. Actual "Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about" moment here. Actual "Jesse, what the fuck are you talking about" moment here. - that goes for the person asking why crime is happening. | ||
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:20 Uldridge wrote: I was asking you why the crimes are happening. You're just answering: well, crime, lol. But if you can't be bothered to do some analysis or posit a hypothesis that's also fine. Just say so and I'll move on because it's shitting up the thread with nonsense again. yes, a stupid question gets a stupid answer. If you had sensible answer to that, then why hasn't it been solved? | ||
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Turbovolver
Australia2447 Posts
On July 17 2026 16:56 LightSpectra wrote: Crime is caused by socioeconomic conditions They are absolutely a large factor, but you can't call Trump a criminal and then just make them the blanket explanation like this. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5201 Posts
Every time you bring it up you get these shoulder shrugs with vague allusions to "it's probably in their DNA", or "their culture is just inherently violent/barbaric/incompatible", but these myopic views are just what's needed to not address the problem and keep it festering. In any case, you've reinforced your own stereotype so well done on not answering the question with a for once thoughtful analysis but instead servicing us with a shit sandwich everyone saw coming from a mile away. | ||
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oBlade
United States6451 Posts
On July 17 2026 16:52 Acrofales wrote: Like clockwork. Repeating Trump's baseless drivel. Here, have a link debunking it: https://www.france24.com/en/live-news/20260717-fact-check-trump-s-primetime-speech-rehashing-election-claims Your link doesn't seem to debunk dead and foreigners on voter rolls. On July 17 2026 16:24 oBlade wrote: 250,000 foreigners registered to vote in 4 states? That's pretty bad. Noncitizen voters Trump claimed hundreds of thousands of non-citizens were registered to vote. Non-citizen voting is illegal and has been shown by both election audits and independent research to be exceedingly rare. Several safeguards prevent non-citizens from voting. Is this a joke? Someone in Spain is linking a newspaper in France that says "we think foreigners in the US don't vote very often" as a response to the fact of there being hundreds of thousands of dead and foreigners registered to vote. "Voter roll" means "list of people who can vote." It's different than "list of people who voted in a given election." Is that what you misunderstood? Otherwise your response doesn't make sense. "It's illegal for noncitizens to vote" is a pretty clueless rebuttal to the fact that there are foreigners registered to vote, because noncitizens registering to vote IS ALSO ALREADY ILLEGAL. Not a confidence-inspiring piece of propaganda. Worried about foreigners voting? Don't worry, it's illegal! Ah, they won't vote because it's illegal, but so it was legal for them to register, then? No, that was illegal too. ... Being registered is the problem. Your newspaper which quotes a blog seems to be debunking a different claim you imagined I said, like "These dead and foreigner votes flipped a specific election," which you have a Pavlovian response for. Find someone claiming that and debunk them. | ||
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ETisME
12861 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:34 Uldridge wrote: There's a very sensible answer to it which is a tale as old as time, but it's being conveniently ignored by one side of the population because it gives conflict and a narrative to share their base behind. Every time you bring it up you get these shoulder shrugs with vague allusions to "it's probably in their DNA", or "their culture is just inherently violent/barbaric/incompatible", but these myopic views are just what's needed to not address the problem and keep it festering. In any case, you've reinforced your own stereotype so well done on not answering the question with a for once thoughtful analysis but instead servicing us with a shit sandwich everyone saw coming from a mile away. Culture is definitely part of it, so is poverty and so is crime. These are all inter-related, that's the only way to look at it. In China, the north chinese drink themselves to death at 18s and it's also the poorer region with worst pollution and one of the worst crime region. But nothing to do with wealth, drinking is part of the culture, like vodka for Russians in cold weather. In fact one of the ways the rich shows off is to gift expensive ones. Only exceptions were those who moved down to the south for a better life. It took China extreme hardline anti-drinking campaigns for more than a decade to change the culture and identity. literally fining companies for drinking culture, and those who smelled a bit of alcohol. It also specifically made propaganda/marketing to make drinking uncool. It still has a significantly higher alcohol related death than rest of China. Never going to happen in the US. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22551 Posts
Only exceptions were those who moved down to the south for a better life. And there you cut down your own argument.Turns out it wasn't a culture of drinking yourself to death by 18, it was their social economic living conditions, and once they left those conditions they stopped drinking themselves to death. (the same holds true for Russia, the alcoholism of the 80's and 90's being caused by the economic collapse of the soviet union.) | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium5201 Posts
The story is always the following: failed integration and a lack of systemic empathy to make very long term dedicated effort (spanning multiple years, maybe generations), causes these issues. City panners dump immigranta in a place and expect them to find their social roles themselves (I know some cities have follow up and systems in place), but why would you, as an immigrant, fit in when your surrogate doesn't want you and there's a subset of likeminded people in your neighborhood anyway? Integration has laregly, for me at least, almost always been a failure. And the most to blame has almost in every case always been the host. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1671 Posts
Amsterdam in particular is, for a capital very, very safe, despite having 50 % immigrant population, including very large Surinamese and Muslim populations, despite that, it's a much safer place then basically anywhere in the US. So yeah, to me, this "crime rates in black population" statistics enjoyers who also very neatly fit in the libertarian, crypto bro fold like the guy in this thread seem very, very obvious racists. | ||
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Jankisa
Croatia1671 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:35 oBlade wrote: Your link doesn't seem to debunk dead and foreigners on voter rolls. Is this a joke? Someone in Spain is linking a newspaper in France that says "we think foreigners in the US don't vote very often" as a response to the fact of there being hundreds of thousands of dead and foreigners registered to vote. "Voter roll" means "list of people who can vote." It's different than "list of people who voted in a given election." Is that what you misunderstood? Otherwise your response doesn't make sense. "It's illegal for noncitizens to vote" is a pretty clueless rebuttal to the fact that there are foreigners registered to vote, because noncitizens registering to vote IS ALSO ALREADY ILLEGAL. Not a confidence-inspiring piece of propaganda. Worried about foreigners voting? Don't worry, it's illegal! Ah, they won't vote because it's illegal, but so it was legal for them to register, then? No, that was illegal too. ... Being registered is the problem. Your newspaper which quotes a blog seems to be debunking a different claim you imagined I said, like "These dead and foreigner votes flipped a specific election," which you have a Pavlovian response for. Find someone claiming that and debunk them. Who won the 2020 election? | ||
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Billyboy
2258 Posts
On July 17 2026 13:25 lestye wrote: Do you guys have any trumpers in your life that actually cares about this stuff? I'd get it if this is something that riles and excites his base, but the trumpers I know are apathetic towards this blubbering. Is this rhetoric for him so he can play victim or does this make his base excited? Sadly no. Making logical conclusions from actual facts is not their strength. For the most part the ones I know are super passionate but not at all knowledgeable on what’s happening. It’s all meme knowledge and rage baiting jokes. If you drill deep on one topic, like the economy, you can even convince them in the moment, but then they hit their socials again and next time you talk to them it’s like they have been reset back to MAGa mode. The only things that have actually made a crack are Epstein and Iran. And with Iran I think it’s less the conflict and more that they thought Trump was not the big boss, and being controlled by “evil Jews”. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3126 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:31 Turbovolver wrote: They are absolutely a large factor, but you can't call Trump a criminal and then just make them the blanket explanation like this. The Trump family made their wealth by discriminating against black tenants. They lost an entire DOJ case about it. Donald never apologized or even denied it, he just said everyone did it "back then". | ||
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Billyboy
2258 Posts
On July 17 2026 17:10 ETisME wrote: how would you rate white supremacy discrimination level of native american and how does that fair against the discrimination against black then? That’s a terrible example to try to make your point. Go check Canadian indigenous crime stats (since we were a step above extermination and therefore have a significant indigenous population). | ||
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