EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 780
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
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Makro
France16890 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On April 12 2017 18:24 opisska wrote: Who is "we"? You do not represent all turks, no matter how much you think so. If you want to be able to label a group a public enemy and then shut down any press you deem associate with that group, well, if thats your preference, then you are in favour of a totalitarian regime, not democracy. Your "Gulen is evil" means nothing outside the pro-erdogan circlejerk. Deal with it. Do you know why I hate global media and globalism? Because people like you read a few newspaper reports and then talk about the other countries' internal affairs as if they know shit. The funny thing is, you guys are so freaking aware of global media and their f**king sinister agendas when it comes to your country. But when it comes to other countries you don't like? "OH THE US FOOLED US WITH MEDIA ON SADDAM'S CHEMICAL WEAPONS :'( NOT OUR FAULT!". It's your fault, you're doing the same thing. Every time you wait for a country to be totally destroyed before you admit you were fooled. We're lucky Turkey is not Syria or Iraq, so I'm able to write you here "DEAL WITH IT" and watch Gulenists rot in their jails with pleasure.Your dystopia image about Turkey is hand placed on your minds by the media itself, I can read it from the way you write about jailed journalists when you said it's thousands, yeah, SULTAN ERDOGAN jails journalists, the saviors of democracy, the statue of FREEDOM, the holy PRESS! It's only 150 or 250, not thousands. And you know how it's easy to become a journalist in Turkey? Pay my salary for 2 years under your media organization and I'm a journalist if that makes me one! Not counting the so called "freelancer" journalists who doesn't even have a presscard. Please, for the sake of this beautiful country, stay away from Turkish internal politics or TRY TO BE OBJECTIVE. If you continue polarizing Turkey only thing you will be getting is WAR, one day or another. And it will ONLY cause millions of turkish refugees on Europe while Turkey taking down good amount of her rival countries with herself. What will you get next? Do you believe you can establish a puppet regime like Iraq if you remove Erdogan with sanctions or war? We can get rid of Erdogan anytime if we wanted, but we can't get rid of Islamist Gulen and communists PKK if we give them what they want. And long as you back those two, I'm not seeing a possibility for Erdogan's replacement. Look, even MHP supports Erdogan's presidential system now! They were the 50% of opposition against Erdogan now they're voting YES because Erdogan promised them to fight PKK and they believe fight against the PKK is not Erdogans, but our nation's struggle thanks to all the arms fyling to PKK by western countries. You make people nationalistic, not Erdogan. Do you realize nobody gives a fuck about jailed journalists in Turkey like you guys in the West? Main opposition party doesn't give a fuck and supports death penalty for them, second main opposition party is in favor of death penalty too! Nobody likes those moderate islamist Gulenist rats as you do clearly! Let me post it again, here is the TV ad of Zaman Newspaper that Erdogan shut down and whole EU went crazy. Watch it. You hear a strong siren and a newly born baby smiling. Zaman launched many weird ads in the same day in multiple channels and there were news and discussions about them in Turkish internet, so we can track their debut date which is 5.10.2015. Just in case you don't believe, Youtube upload date: Scream of Silence: 15 EKİM 2015 in Turkish. https://img-s1.onedio.com/id-579e5eb9fda677971d7005e8/rev-0/w-635/listing/f-jpg-webp/s-cae978e5ab5978699296b22bed10c69f6fd31a30.webp Can you please add 9 months and 10 days to that date? It's our coup day 15th July 2016! This sole evidence is enough to destroy that newspaper and jail them forever in my book. But he and his believers will be portrayed as exiles who ran away from Erdogan and his cruel regime. Because he does incredible amount of lobbying. He donated millions to Hillary and bought congressmen. http://guleninvestigation.com/gulens-influence-u-s-congress/ https://www.dailysabah.com/diplomacy/2015/03/19/turkey-letter-signed-by-74-us-senators-signifies-gulens-power-in-congress Nobody will investigate why he ran away to US in the first place several years ago, when he was neutral to Erdogan? Previous regimes decided to lock him up because there was clear evidence that he was trying to overthrow Turkish republic and install a pro west islamic regime. I know you so love your liberal values that you rage when someone from EAST harms your ideals for the places you don't live in. But things are different there. When you let Gulenists they buy everyone and stage a coup. Do you know Zaman workers leaked Turkish Intel. Service's classified reports? Do you know Zaman leaked Turkish invasion plan of Syria and they gave a list to the PKK what contains the names of undercover turkish operatives within PKK, ending with their public execution? Do you know they spied Erdogan 7/24? Do you know Turkish football team Fenerbahce and its matchfixing scandal? One day we woke up to a morning where we listened Aziz Yıldırım's (Fenerbahçe club-president) matchfixing attempts on phone-tapes but 2 weeks ago we learned that they were all produced in Gulen's studios in Canada. The police chief who illegally spied Fenerbahce is removed, prosecutor is removed, judge and supreme court are removed! Surprisingly they are the same people who jailed secular turkish army members years ago with Ergenekon/Balyoz operations. Whole story: http://turkish-football.com/fenerbahce-were-punished-with-match-fixing-for-not-paying-gulen-50m-says-galatasaray-president/ https://www.dailysabah.com/football/2016/08/02/match-fixing-case-a-gulenist-plot-against-fenerbahce https://footballcollective.org.uk/2016/08/03/erdogan-vs-gulen-power-struggle-comes-full-circle-in-turkish-soccer/ https://www.alaraby.co.uk/english/news/2016/12/3/gulen-named-as-suspect-in-fenerbahce-football-match-fixing-scandal http://www.ahaber.com.tr/webtv/gundem/feto-elebasi-fetullah-gulenden-fenerbahce-itirafi Here's Gulen talking about his discomfort about Fenerbahce's harsh attitude to him, while the most famous Turkish striker (later a MP who ran away from country) from Galatsaray, Hakan SUKUR. Here's the Balyoz operaiton I mentioned: http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/236-acquitted-in-balyoz-coup-case.aspx?pageID=238&nID=80408&NewsCatID=338 Speaking of other liberal values you enforce to TR, when you give lands to the Kurds, they simply demand more and commit every terror acts till you agree with them! But it's okay long as they're not blowing themselves in your street. Here's some upgraded kurdish wetdream for you. Includes thousands of kilometres where the kurds are underpopulated but they still put claims. God forbid they put some claims on your lands. | ||
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Aceace
Turkey1305 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + Do you realize nobody gives a fuck about jailed journalists in Turkey like you guys in the West? Main opposition party doesn't give a fuck and supports death penalty for them, second main opposition party is in favor of death penalty too! Nobody likes those moderate islamist Gulenist rats as you do clearly! + Show Spoiler + It's only 150 or 250, not thousands. And you know how it's easy to become a journalist in Turkey? Pay my salary for 2 years under your media organization and I'm a journalist if that makes me one! Not counting the so called "freelancer" journalists who doesn't even have a presscard. FUCK YOU! Main opposition party doesn't give a fuck? WTF? Do you even know who is Ahmet Şık? Or Musa Kart? Or Kadri Gürsel? (Ok. I guess I should explain for non-Turkish TL readers. Ahmet Şık was one of the first journalists who tried to fight against Gulenist movement. He even wrote a book about them called "Army of the Imam". Gulenist judges put him jail. After Gulen-Erdogan alliance broke up he released from prison. But 2 months ago this time Erdoganist judges put him jail again. He is now accused for being a Gulen supporter..... Oh the irony.. In year 2014 he won UNESCO World Press Freedom Prize) Oh one more thing... I am or I was a journalist. I graduated from Aegean University, Journalism department. But i'm not a journalist anymore. You know why? Because a local AKP mayor want me to try to blackmail a local CHP mayor. I refused. Then he forced my boss to fire me. I don't have job for fucking 3 years. Do you even have any idea how it feels? And you say "Pay my salary for 2 years under your media organization and I'm a journalist" Yeah....... You are pathetic. + Show Spoiler + Look, even MHP supports Erdogan's presidential system now! LOL! An opposition party supports Erdoğan because he promised to fight PKK? Nope. If you lived in Turkey you would know why MHP called "Stepne" (fifth wheel). Whenever Erdogan needed congress vote, MHP was there to help him. Erdoğan in making an intellectual purge atm. He is purging Gulenists, liberals, communist, seculars... 4811 academicians dismissed from universities (3 of them are my teacher) Long story short... Stop trying to represent me. I vote for "Nay" in referendum and if "Nay" loses because of Turks living in foreign countries (like you), i will live in a full totaliter regime thanks to you. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
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Dav1oN
Ukraine3164 Posts
Their definitions of what's right and wrong seems obnoxious And even tho most of society of people are stupid/uneducated indeed, telling them that they are stupid is a wrong approach, democracy is not perfect, but totalitarism is the worst option possible. | ||
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warding
Portugal2394 Posts
On April 16 2017 16:54 opisska wrote: It's always the same with the supporters of the nondemocratic systems, isn't it? They have their own facts, their own reality, their own concept of fairness and entitlement, their mortal enemies and them need to defend themselves from them. Everything makes so much sense in their world. If you look past the vastly different levels of eloquence and sophistication, the similarities are striking. Completely right. The other common thing is for supporters of autocracy to denounce liberalism as a western imposition and claim some sort of unique national specificities that justify autocracy. In Portugal our dictator Salazar claimed that the Portuguese were too emotional and notintelligent enough to live in a democrscy. I shit you not. | ||
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xM(Z
Romania5281 Posts
...because of Turks living in foreign countries (like you) those are educated/raised by you. + Show Spoiler +i don't actually know if that's an assumption but i figured what the hell and went with it; it's spicy) | ||
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opisska
Poland8852 Posts
On April 16 2017 18:00 xM(Z wrote: stop patting yourselves on the back and see the actual point: those are educated/raised by you. + Show Spoiler + i don't actually know if that's an assumption but i figured what the hell and went with it; it's spicy) May I refer you to a great article discussing some of the causes of Erdogan support by expat Turks http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-39556934 In short: propaganda, nationalism in the community, not feeling the negatives of Erdogan regime. You are right that it's partly our fault for failing to dissolve the tightly knit Turkish communities within our societies, but there are further effects. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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lastpuritan
United States540 Posts
On April 16 2017 16:24 Aceace wrote: This is too much. You live in USA. Stop pretending to know internal Turkish politics. Stop giving misinformation. Just at least stop pretending to care about us. + Show Spoiler + Do you realize nobody gives a fuck about jailed journalists in Turkey like you guys in the West? Main opposition party doesn't give a fuck and supports death penalty for them, second main opposition party is in favor of death penalty too! Nobody likes those moderate islamist Gulenist rats as you do clearly! + Show Spoiler + It's only 150 or 250, not thousands. And you know how it's easy to become a journalist in Turkey? Pay my salary for 2 years under your media organization and I'm a journalist if that makes me one! Not counting the so called "freelancer" journalists who doesn't even have a presscard. FUCK YOU! Main opposition party doesn't give a fuck? WTF? Do you even know who is Ahmet Şık? Or Musa Kart? Or Kadri Gürsel? (Ok. I guess I should explain for non-Turkish TL readers. Ahmet Şık was one of the first journalists who tried to fight against Gulenist movement. He even wrote a book about them called "Army of the Imam". Gulenist judges put him jail. After Gulen-Erdogan alliance broke up he released from prison. But 2 months ago this time Erdoganist judges put him jail again. He is now accused for being a Gulen supporter..... Oh the irony.. In year 2014 he won UNESCO World Press Freedom Prize) Oh one more thing... I am or I was a journalist. I graduated from Aegean University, Journalism department. But i'm not a journalist anymore. You know why? Because a local AKP mayor want me to try to blackmail a local CHP mayor. I refused. Then he forced my boss to fire me. I don't have job for fucking 3 years. Do you even have any idea how it feels? And you say "Pay my salary for 2 years under your media organization and I'm a journalist" Yeah....... You are pathetic. + Show Spoiler + Look, even MHP supports Erdogan's presidential system now! LOL! An opposition party supports Erdoğan because he promised to fight PKK? Nope. If you lived in Turkey you would know why MHP called "Stepne" (fifth wheel). Whenever Erdogan needed congress vote, MHP was there to help him. Erdoğan in making an intellectual purge atm. He is purging Gulenists, liberals, communist, seculars... 4811 academicians dismissed from universities (3 of them are my teacher) Long story short... Stop trying to represent me. I vote for "Nay" in referendum and if "Nay" loses because of Turks living in foreign countries (like you), i will live in a full totaliter regime thanks to you. Fuck off. People like you destroying the Turkish nation just because of your kemalist wetdreams have been destroyed. Ahmet Şık was mouth of PKK with his propaganda spreading news. He was somehow always the first guy to report PKK actions, remember Ersin Demirel? Ahmet ŞIK published a completely LIE story about Turkish army without a proper Google research. But cry more. That's the only thing you can nowadays. In your reality, when a person is under custody it's enough for you to cry for days before he/she faces the court or verdict. The only people you care is your people. Tell me more about your journalism, my father owns a TV channel in TR. I know how your kemalists CHP and his best buddies pressed him to report news according to their agenda years ago. I know how Gulenists raided our channel trying to bribe us, phone call me every day to join their famous dinners. I know how you were silent during the coup when our TV channel has been raided by coup soldiers and my father resisted stay on air. If somebody wanted you to blackmail someone, go inform the officials instead of sitting ducks. Otherwise you're lying. Oh yeah, Long story short... Stop trying to represent me. I vote for "Nay" in referendum and if "Nay" loses because of Turks living in foreign countries (like you), i will live in a full totaliter regime thanks to you. I already voted NO and my vote ALREADY flew to TR, that doesn't mean I can't support current governments foreign policies. But I believe you will enjoy the totaliter regime anyways because current constitution is already giving incredible powers to prime minister. AKP has been ruling, ERDOGAN HAS BEEN RULING the country for 12 years and there's not a single day that CHP could actually do something. There was never democratic debates within AKP, stop misleading people as if we had a democratic regime or laws.Your Ataturk and his best buddy Inonu was textbook dictators, and this is their Turkey. It was always a fascist regime whether secular or AKP oriented. Yeah, cry more. Nothing will change in your ordinary life if Erdogan becomes the president. Because he already has all of those powers, he shut down newspapers already, he did everything he wanted to do, ONE THING he doesn't have enough seat is to change our system, there we go to the referendum. And stop lying about MHP, typical CHP supporter, no one is in the true opposition except you. They refused to make coalition with AKP previous regimes even though they have been offered. Why do they accept now? Şapkanı önüne al da düşün iki dakika. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6209 Posts
Votes in favor of Turkish constitutional changes that could give President Tayyip Erdogan sweeping new powers stood at 52.8 percent with around 90 percent of ballots opened, the state-run Anadolu news agency said on Sunday. Votes against the changes have been rising, taking the lead in Istanbul, Turkey's biggest city, with 88 percent of ballot boxes opened, data from Anadolu showed. www.reuters.com | ||
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C9jIoduXgAE76Fj.jpg:large) | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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HolydaKing
21254 Posts
On April 17 2017 02:12 bardtown wrote: So the UK has the most integrated Turks? Lovely. Looks like it, congrats! | ||
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RvB
Netherlands6209 Posts
Votes for constitutional change to hand President Tayyip Erdogan sweeping powers held a narrow lead with almost all ballot boxes opened on Sunday, but Turkey's three largest cities and the mainly Kurdish southeast looked set to vote "No". The "Yes" votes stood at 51.7 percent after 95 percent of ballots had been opened, state-run Anadolu news agency said, with the lead narrowing in the final stages of an increasingly tight count. A "Yes" vote would replace Turkey's parliamentary democracy with an all-powerful presidency and may see Erdogan in office until at least 2029, in the most radical change to the country's political system in its modern history. The outcome will also shape Turkey's strained relations with the European Union. The NATO member state has curbed the flow of migrants - mainly refugees from wars in Syria and Iraq - into the bloc but Erdogan says he may review the deal after the vote. In Turkey's three biggest cities - Istanbul, Izmir and the capital Ankara - the "No" camp appeared set to prevail narrowly, according to Turkish television stations. Speaking to reporters in Ankara, Deputy Prime Minister Veysi Kaynak said that the "Yes" camp had not won as many votes as expected, but was still ahead nationwide. Earlier in the day a crowd chanted "Recep Tayyip Erdogan" and applauded as the president shook hands and greeted people after voting in a school near his home in Istanbul. His staff handed out toys for children in the crowd. "God willing I believe our people will decide to open the path to much more rapid development," Erdogan said in the polling station after casting his vote. "I believe in my people's democratic common sense." The "Yes" percentage of the vote - which stood at 63 percent after around one quarter had been opened - eased as the count came further west towards Istanbul and the Aegean coast. Broadcaster Haberturk said turnout was 86 percent. The opposition People's Republican Party (CHP) said a last-minute decision by the electoral board to accept unstamped ballots as valid votes put the vote in question. "We will pursue a legal battle. If the irregularities are not fixed, there will be a serious legitimacy discussion," CHP deputy chairman Bulent Tezcan said. www.reuters.com | ||
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Sent.
Poland9198 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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beentheredonethat
2934 Posts
Honestly, I don't understand how turks that do not live in Turkey can actively support the making of a dictator. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21685 Posts
My heart goes out to those who voted No and now find themselves in a country that is no longer their own. On April 17 2017 02:39 beentheredonethat wrote: We germans should make another deal with the turks: every turk living in Germany who voted "Yes" should be sent to Turkey, and for each we sent back, a turk who voted "No" from Turkey will be allowed to come to Germany. Honestly, I don't understand how turks that do not live in Turkey can actively support the making of a dictator. Its easy to vote for something when you suffer none of the downsides from that choice. | ||
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