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On October 24 2006 17:49 CultureMisfits wrote:
lol... anybody professional would tell you that clinical depression is a disease. Its a world fact, so please stop arguing that right now, its just plain wrong.
And no... most social disorders are formed through physical/emotional/sexual abuse and neglect. I do believe koreans score pretty high in the physical abuse area. ADHD is usually argued that you are born with it, and not due to the effect of improper parenting. Although one might argue that alcohol and tobacco during pregnancy cause ADHD.
So what depression is more widely accepted. It shows we are trying to do something about it rather than keeping it to ourselfs like you koreans appear to do. It doesnt mean you are not affected by it.
Anybody professional? A psychologist? Surely not a biologist. It is not proven to be a real physical disease. Sure, social disorders exist. I admitted that much. Depression as a social disorder, fine. I accept that. Not as a physical disease which cannot be cured unless through medicinal treatment. No wonder most anti-depressants are placebos.
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On October 24 2006 17:49 CultureMisfits wrote:
lol... anybody professional would tell you that clinical depression is a disease. Its a world fact, so please stop arguing that right now, its just plain wrong.
And no... most social disorders are formed through physical/emotional/sexual abuse and neglect. I do believe koreans score pretty high in the physical abuse area. ADHD is usually argued that you are born with it, and not due to the effect of improper parenting. Although one might argue that alcohol and tobacco during pregnancy cause ADHD.
So what depression is more widely accepted. It shows we are trying to do something about it rather than keeping it to ourselfs like you koreans appear to do. It doesnt mean you are not affected by it.
You are unable to grasp the difference in western and eastern culture.
Yea, I got hit with bigass sticks when I did something wrong as a kid. It hurt like shit. Sometimes, I even thought it was unjustified. Like what I did was OK. As you grow up though, you will know it was all out of love. Its not like I harbor any ill feelings because I got physically disciplined. In Korea there is much more emphasis on family values and respect. Parents care for their children, and the children care for their parents when they grow up. Thats why you dont see shit like sexual abuse and neglect as much.
Its not a fucking disease if its societal in nature. Its a SOCIAL DISORDER like whatisprotoss pointed out many times.
And the Korean kids can be deemed as being more stressed I guess. Its not the same thing as being "clinically depressed."
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There is much controversy in whether depression is a disease or disorder. I think many are starting to consider it a disease. Disorder or disease is irrevelant in this discussion. He is implying that depression is an excuse to get out of work. Which may be true for some, but definitly not for the mass majority. It should viewed as something serious and to be treated if it is severe.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
The end of this thread makes me depressed.
Fuck now I am going to have to go and make a "self help" thread on tl.net. Curse you all.
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Vatican City State16 Posts
To the OP:
I personally have been battling depression and there is some supplements I reccommend if you have 40-50 dollars(vitamins will last 1-2 months).
B vitamins- These are essential for health, especially mental health. Deficiencies have been known to cause depression and stress, and this is usually the first supplement a nutritionist will reccommend.
Fishoil - This supplement gives our bodies the much needed Omega 3's, which have been shown to fight all sorts of mental illness's or disorders, whatever you want to call them.It helps ADHD, Depression, Bi Polar. Here is one small link I quickly found to back me up. Fishoil and depression
5htp - Helps your brain make seretonin. Good for anxiety, depression, among other things. Another link 5-htp info
Bcomplex costs like 10-20,Fishoil costs around 20 dollars for a bottle which lasts 1-2 months. 5-htp costs around 5-20 dollars depending on the brand you get. I use both of these and they got rid of my depression. They take a few weeks to take full effect. If you are thinking about either of these supplements, for fish oil I suggest Cod Liver Oil which is fish oil, but has higher amounts of DHA to EPA(DHA is good for the brain, EPA is good for the heart, and in your case I think you are more worried about your brain,although either type will work). For 5htp, you should get one with vitamin b6 and vitamin C in it so it synthesizes in your body optimally.
Remember I am just talking about these supplements for their anti depressant properties, they have a ton of other good things about them for your health. Also, all of these things are natural and healthy for you, they are naturally found in food, but practically no one eats healthy enough to get all of these vitamins. Thats why EVERYONE should be supplementing with these.
Also check around on the net for natural anti depressants, you will be pleasantly suprised by what you find..
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Vatican City State16 Posts
BTW my depression is gone. Lol. Forgot to mention that.
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i read somewhere that trying every day to be maximum of time under the sun and to make such effort to make relaxation helps a lot. Try it.
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THIS IS AN OLD THREAD I AM REVIVING
I've been prescribed 4 weeks of fluoxetine (prozac). I would like to hear stories from those who are experienced with this medication, and maybe include a brief background of your depression if possible. I've taken prozac before but quit after a week because I was feeling emotionally numb and apathetic. The doctor today said it was because I quit too soon. However he also told me prozac had "absolutely no side effects" which is obviously not true so I am not sure how he became a doctor.
I enjoyed this discussion about the validity of treating depression through medication. There are indeed neurological causes to clinical depression but the importance of their effect is uncertain. Furthermore various forms of couseling such as cognitive therapy have proven to be effective methods of treatment. Two particular antidepressant/placebo studies are quite unnerving.
http://journals.apa.org/prevention/volume1/pre0010002a.html
A 1998 study by Kirsch, Irving, a UConn psychologist who conducted 19 double-blind trials to find the placebo effect in all of them as high as 75% and "the correlation between placebo effect and drug effect [to be] .90," the result of which assuming the experiements were done correctly and all factors accounted for, signify that the effect of Prozac on patients tested is largely insignificant. (Insignificant in the general sense, not statistically)
http://www.namiscc.org/Research/2002/DrugEfficacy.htm
Fours years later, a report investigating studies submitted to the FDA by major drug companies for approval of antidepressants shows amazingly smiliar results. Six different antidepressants were used in "47 randomized placebo controlled short-term efficacy trials" only to have the placebo effect appear in 80% of the groups. This report, also by Dr. Irving Kirsch, details amazingly lackadaisical practices by the FDA in approving antidepressant drugs. Some excerpts:
"Although the FDA approved the drugs for "the treatment of depression" not otherwise specified, all but one of the clinical trials were conducted on patients described as moderately to severely depressed (their mean baseline Hamilton Depression Scale [HAM-D] scores ranged from 21.0 to 29.7)."
"In order to generalize the findings of the clinical trial to a larger patient population, FDA reviewers sought a completion rate of 70% or better for these typically 6-week trials. Only 4 of 45 trials, however, reached this objective."
"The use of other psychoactive medication was reported in 25 trials. In most trials, a chloral hydrate sedative was permitted in doses ranging from 500 mg to 2000 mg per day."
Thank god for the Freedom of Information Act.
Other studies :
http://www.mcmanweb.com/article-18.htm
There exist theories that attempt to explain the unusually high occurence of the placebo effect. I don't know what they are but I assume they involve underlining the ambiguity of depression leading to inconclusive results of those who were given the placebo and later being "cured". In whatever case, these published studies show the effectiveness of antidepressants as at the very least, controversial.
Apart from clinical studies, there have been thousands (wiki) of lawsuits against drug companies over the effects of antidepressants. One case involving a serial killer, Joyce Fentress, et al. v Shea Communications et al or the Fentress Case
http://www.lectlaw.com/filesh/zbk03.htm
was undone by highly unethical and shady conduct on the side of Eli Lilly, the drug company that produces Prozac. On September 14, 1989, Joseph Wesbecker, who was severely depressed and had been taking Prozac for a month, a new antidepressant drug on the market, brought an AK-47 to work, shot and killed 8 of his fellow employees, wounded 12, and committed suide by shooting himself in the head after. Halfway through the ensuring trial, Chief plaintiffs' counsel Paul Smith asked oddly to withhold important evidence against Eli Lilly after repeatedly asking to present it previously. The evidence detailed another case that involved the drug Oraflex. Eli Lilly pleaded guilty to misreporting detrimental side effects of the drug that eventually led to four deaths and a court order to withdraw Oraflex from the market. Smith, it was later revealed in a Supreme Court investigation, secretly agreed to a "tremedous" settlement with Eli Lilly during a courtroom break moments after the judge allowed his request to present his evidence. After ruling the case in favor of Eli Lilly, Judge Potter appealed to the Supreme Court over his own decision. He won his case unanimously. However before any ruling was reached, Judge Potter signed a document declaring the case settled. A very bizzare turn of events that may never be fully explained but certainly involve more shady conduct from Eli Lilly.
Not surprisingly, after finding all of this out I am appalled by the unethical behavior of drug companies. I might still take the prozac to see what effect it has, but if it doesn't work after a month I am becoming rachel weisz in the constant gardner and dedicating my life to uncovering and exposing dirty scandals perpetrated by giant pharmaceutical companies all over the world.
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