EPTUS Secret Prisons - Page 6
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Quanticfograw
United States2053 Posts
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On September 08 2006 09:57 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Yes of course im saying if im on the negative end of ANY experience i would feel differently about it. As it is im not racist, but if 30 fucking black men raped and killed my entire family i would think i might end up a racist... maybe? As it is, im on the positive end of these brutal tactics. So yes, my opinion is going to be grossly minute as oppose to my opinion if I was locked up with no lawful representation indefinately. You can try to paint me the asshole, but fact is this is how humans work. Example: "Hey faggot, how do you feel about cute little koala bears?" Faggot: "Why i think they are swell!" Example dude: "Oh great, cause they are skinning your family alive with scary looking tools, how do you feel now!?" faggot: "Well not so good dude, i just darn well dont like em!" Anyways, obviously you guys are missing my point. Or im doing a horrible job trying to convey a thought. It got mutttled when i uttered the scary words of German camps and got further muttled when i realized im out numbered 10 to 1 in people who have an opinion on war and the US in particular. Continue your fucking circle jerk of overly liberal opinions on how war should be done. Fact is, war will always be fought in a brutal fashion that when a light is shined on it it fucking looks horrible. Nevermind the intentions, nevermind HOW those tactics escalated to that degree. Nevermind the tactics THEY use. Nevermind the positive results as oppose to the zilch results without the tactics. No, just continue to think its only the US and this is horrific shit that is somehow "new" to war? Can't remember who said but this reminds me of a quote that goes something like this; "To the intelligent mind, a prejudice recognized is a prejudice extinguished". Honestly, you can't just be content with letting something that you know is wrong go on simply because others have in the past, you Americans were not the first to take slaves, so perhaps you should have never let them go? You americans were not the first to allow women to vote, so again, perhaps you never should have changed that? | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Unfortunately i wasnt, i think this is horrendous and horrible, i just more contend that this is a fact of war. If you guys want to contest a better method that brings about positive results in a war time than we would have an actual debate. As it is its a bunch of "zomg usa is so bad and inc is just saying they didnt do it first" | ||
vGl-CoW
Belgium8305 Posts
if this brings them limitations, so be it we have laws for a reason y'know | ||
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Liquid`Jinro
Sweden33719 Posts
On September 08 2006 11:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote: THAT is a good arguement. And had i been arguing FOR these tactics, i would be in a pickle cause you raise a very good point. Unfortunately i wasnt, i think this is horrendous and horrible, i just more contend that this is a fact of war. If you guys want to contest a better method that brings about positive results in a war time than we would have an actual debate. As it is its a bunch of "zomg usa is so bad and inc is just saying they didnt do it first" First of all, war time? What war? Iraq? I thought the war in Iraq was declared 'over' long ago by you guys. The war on terrorism? Eh.. It's never going to be won by torture, and it's certainly never going to be won by brute force. Bully someone and they'll grow up to bully someone else, or if you do it bad enough - their children will grow up to bully you. Torture will only create support for the terrorists and their various causes, as is quite evident by this thread. I don't think the kind of militaristic approach that you are currently taking can stop terrorism without turning the entire world - or at least your own nation - into a police state. 2nd, no, if you want to condemn other countries (Iran, Iraq et al) for doing things like this, you can't go around doing it yourself, if you want to portray these countries as horrible for breaking UN sanctions.. You get the picture I guess? You need the worlds support, you need a stable middle east, you need.. I have no idea what needs to be done honestly, I just know that what you are doing now, clearly isn't working. After 9/11 you had every single sane persons sympathy, but your warmongering afterwards ruined it. Your politics ruined it. | ||
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MoltkeWarding
5195 Posts
As for secret prisons and torture, every American concerned for the wellbeing of their country ought to consider these circumventions of their constitution as blatant violations against the spirit of that law to which the country owes its freedoms. | ||
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Servolisk
United States5241 Posts
On September 08 2006 11:11 Chibi[OWNS] wrote: i think that's the whole fucking point!? Yet I had to type it anyway :p | ||
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bine
United States2352 Posts
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haduken
Australia8267 Posts
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sdpgposd
United Kingdom1464 Posts
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bine
United States2352 Posts
On September 08 2006 11:19 {88}iNcontroL wrote: THAT is a good arguement. And had i been arguing FOR these tactics, i would be in a pickle cause you raise a very good point. Unfortunately i wasnt, i think this is horrendous and horrible, i just more contend that this is a fact of war. If you guys want to contest a better method that brings about positive results in a war time than we would have an actual debate. As it is its a bunch of "zomg usa is so bad and inc is just saying they didnt do it first" More positive results: go to the UN immediately and tell them that you want help getting an exit from Iraq. something like "We want to relinquish control of Iraq to the international community in order to help Iraq transition to sovereignty, illiminate the presence of anti-american terrorists in the country, which are contributing to its destabilization, and prevent the current civil war from getting any worse. We understand that we have made a significant mistake, and are asking the world to help us keep the peace in a country that has been through a lot." Immediately disavow/get rid of internationally illegal practices (torture, secret prisons, etc.) and improve the world's standing globally. Hold a summit with the express purpose of starting the path toward reconciliation between the west and fundamentalist Islamic countries. Remove politics and personal loyalty from the selection process when determining who runs the institutions that are supposed to keep us safe. It's not like terrorists are something new, and it's not like we've always done flagrantly illegal and immoral things to terrorist suspects. The danger of 9/11 was always that we would let it scare us into destroying ourselves, not that our country would be killed by airplanes. Terrorism is psychological. And we fell victim to it by voting for a tyrant. | ||
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MyLostTemple
United States2921 Posts
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On September 08 2006 10:00 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Hey i know your a fucking retard, but lets try and keep this semi-intelligent. If you want to sum up my examples as "Hey lookie, they did it as well!" Than your missing the fucking point that i have verbalized 30 fucking times. No, i dont give a shit that "they did it first" its fucking examples of "look, this happens ALL THE FUCKING TIME" and the US doesnt deserve a god damn unique thread with 30 of the same people complaining about "Bush" andhow he invented these tactics or how hes "a criminal" when every fucking US president has done this, as well as almost every major leader in a war time through the course of HISTORY all over THE WORLD. So dont degenerate this into a flame war anymore than it already has. If you want to generalize my statements, dont do it incorrectly you dank ass jerk. wait-- so now you are saying your argument is "everyone else is doing it too, go punish them! its not fair to punish me!" wow. its like kindergarden all over again. He even starts every post with an insult to the person that disagrees with him, as well as askign other people not to start a flame war... On September 08 {88}iNcontroL wrote: "Hippo, can you do me a favor and please please please get your ass to an educating facility, and smash your face into its purposes" "I feel like im teaching a class of down-syndrome students." "Jesus tap-dancing christ. Are you cereal? " (wtf?) "Fucking moron. " "Hey i know your a fucking retard, but lets try and keep this semi-intelligent." i think you need to calm down "incontrol", i think everyone understands that people have done bad things in the past, however that does not justify, or excuse its continuance. You keep avoiding the point. these things are wrong and SHOULD NOT be done. It doesnt matter if he did it first, or if everyone else is also doing it. It is still wrong. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
On September 08 2006 09:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote: Fact is, war will always be fought in a brutal fashion that when a light is shined on it it fucking looks horrible. Nevermind the intentions, nevermind HOW those tactics escalated to that degree. Nevermind the tactics THEY use. Nevermind the positive results as oppose to the zilch results without the tactics. No, just continue to think its only the US and this is horrific shit that is somehow "new" to war? This is incontrol's true point. He does not feel bad about the existence of this prison or that people are tortured. He sees the positives that come out of denying due process of the law and their basic human rights. He sees it as a necessary action in order to continue his standard of living. He seems to see this constant betrayal of the principles our country was founded upon as a necessary victim of the war on terror. I know its not about bush, thats fine. its just about another person tearing down justice and supposedly unalienable human rights because it makes it easier for him to get his way than it would be if he actually acknowledged that people have intrinsic rights. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 08 2006 12:41 maleorderbride wrote: wait-- so now you are saying your argument is "everyone else is doing it too, go punish them! its not fair to punish me!" wow. its like kindergarden all over again. He even starts every post with an insult to the person that disagrees with him, as well as askign other people not to start a flame war... i think you need to calm down "incontrol", i think everyone understands that people have done bad things in the past, however that does not justify, or excuse its continuance. You keep avoiding the point. these things are wrong and SHOULD NOT be done. It doesnt matter if he did it first, or if everyone else is also doing it. It is still wrong. No, just no.. im done. This is fucking horrible. Jesus the comprehension skills some of you wield dazzles me. | ||
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maleorderbride
United States2916 Posts
I like how when you lose an argument you are graciously retreating because of the other sides inadequacy. | ||
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
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Chibi[OWNS]
United Kingdom10597 Posts
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Lemonwalrus
United States5465 Posts
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KwarK
United States43271 Posts
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