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On September 07 2006 19:35 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2006 19:28 Lemonwalrus wrote:
I completely agree. If they are found to be (with no uncertainty) active terrorists, we owe them nothing more than what they were planning to do to us. But the with no uncertainty part is pretty much impossible. Hmm... While I don't condone eye for an eye treatment for any criminal, if torture is capable of bringing out answers should it be used?
I didn't so much mean that we should punish them as they were going to punish us. I meant that, an I must stress the without uncertainty part, if we KNEW that they were terrorists, and getting information out of them could mean the difference between life and death for innocent people, we (the U.S.) should be basically allowed to use force if necessary to get the information that we need A.S.A.P.
Incontrol, please re-read my last post, it has a few changes that you might appreciate.
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On September 07 2006 19:41 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2006 19:39 Orome wrote:On September 07 2006 19:25 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Justify? Yeah, because by sarcastically alluding to historical examples of similar uses of brute force in other countries im clearly alluding to the legality and purity of this current tactic.
OR
Im simply complaining about the fucking anti US propoganda that circulates this site all the fucking time. Had you of read on, and maybe paid more heed to the other shit rather than just tighten your anus when "Germany" was mentioned, you would have seen the bulk of my comment was talking more about this ISNT new shit and this HAS ALWAYS been done. Yet somehow, because Bush is our president, these cuntlips seem to think this is new or unique to the US. THAT was the purpose of my post. I was talking mainly about this: On September 07 2006 19:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
ZOMG They dont ask nicely for information? Fucking monsters! Also, all the other incidents you mentioned were from some years ago. I'd have hoped a first world country these days would be so far as to forgo such methods. Yes of course they were from years ago, but if you want I can give examples of countries doing this now..? All first world countries when faced with a ticking time bomb situation, or a situation in which organizations are amassing resources and personel with the distinct intent of killing citizens of that first world country, they ALWAYS HAVE and ALWAYS WILL use whatever tactic gets the job done, to get the information necessary to reduce the chances of success from their opponents.
I'm not saying the USA is alone on this, in fact I'm disgusted as how much of the rest of the world reacted to this news, but it seemed like you were defending the USA's actions at least partly in your first post. If not, we can stop this now, and I can go to bed. 
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If Clinton had released this news, he'd probably have been impeached. Why?
Nearly impeached for infidelity.
This administration has lied about far more than the last, that we know of. And has had more ties, and close connections to scandals than any other as well.
No impeachment yet.
He also did a much better job as president.
And if anyone so much as thanks Reagan, or Bush Sr. for the work Bill did, I will personally shove my foot up their ass.
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On September 07 2006 19:43 hasuprotoss wrote:
History has, and always will, repeat itself.
However, I don't understand your point either. You are trying to compare Nazi death camps with current day US secret prisons. Here's a newsflash for you:
America hasn't rounded up all the Arabs/Muslims for genocide. America hasn't (to my knowledge) starved the people it has in its prisons. The only thing that Nazi death camps and US secret prisons have in common is that they hold prisoners that are seen as enemies to the state (rightfully so or not, that's up for you to decide).
Of course, I might have completely misread your argument, but I think I got it right.
Eh, I just tried to write a reply, but can't manage to put together a coherent sentence anymore, I really need to go to bed. ;p You misunderstood me, maybe we can continue this tomorrow.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
You can go to bed sir.
I regret so deeply my referance to the Nazi summer camps. This will be my last attempt to explain this. Litterally, the two are completely seperate, in severity and mechanics, i understand this. The referance was purely to exemplify the existance of such tactics throughout history, and throughout the world. No, im not saying its good or legal or swell. What i am saying, and this gets discussed more adequatly in my later points (which seem to have been completely forgotten) is these tactics, have and will be used by EVERYONE in varying ways and degrees. The media coverage and the bitchiness everytime the US utilizes what EVERYONE is utilizing as some kind of "unique" or "omg cruel" way of getting information geared towards ending a fuckign war and ultimately saving lives is painstaking to the least.
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On September 07 2006 19:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2006 19:34 Hippopotamus wrote:
People shrivel up for a good reason. It's probably the most important historical lesson to be learned from the 20th century. The way you wrote your post, you must either be trying to justify what Bush is doing or you're just aimlessly ranting about how everyone is "anti-American". Or im doing what i fucking said, now 3 times. I would like to ask Lemonwalrus and Hippopotomus to please read more carefully before engaging in further semi-intellectual discussion. I feel like im teaching a class of down-syndrome students. And what, pray tell, was the most important lesson learned in the 20th century from Nazi Germany.. what THE FUCK was the single most important explosion of information that you have now deemed the greatest thing learned in over 100 years that came from my allusion to "German concentration camps" I realize im steam boating towards a flurry of comments like "iNcontroL just let it go" or "relax" or "god you argue so much" But i have an alergic reaction to dumb, and these 2 guys are making my skin bleed.
Well you seem to dismiss opinions by trying to get at the idea that they were just thoughtless impulses evoked by your comment about concentration camps. As if being repulsed by nazi germany is unwarranted. But Nazi Germany has a lot to teach us. I don't feel like writing an essay about why it's important. Perhaps most relevant is that the consequence of failing to check government, of nationalism, of exagerrating threats was at one point in history, massive genocide.
Instead of picking out one thing you object to in our responses explain the point of your post if it isn't to justify what Bush does? Is it just an aimless rant?
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On September 07 2006 19:40 Hippopotamus wrote:
Do you have some authority on the English language to back you on that one? I've always understood "an" to be more of a phonetic thing than a grammatical thing. That is why it would be proper to use it in front of a word beginning with a silent h. You're right about the terrorists though.
You are correct, when speaking in english, the 'an' would be replaced with 'a' in that sentence. But when writing in english, the 'an' would be used. English writing and speaking follow different rules for special circumstances. Although I do not claim to be a master of the english language, I am ALMOST 100% sure that this is correct.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 07 2006 19:53 Hippopotamus wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2006 19:38 {88}iNcontroL wrote:On September 07 2006 19:34 Hippopotamus wrote:
People shrivel up for a good reason. It's probably the most important historical lesson to be learned from the 20th century. The way you wrote your post, you must either be trying to justify what Bush is doing or you're just aimlessly ranting about how everyone is "anti-American". Or im doing what i fucking said, now 3 times. I would like to ask Lemonwalrus and Hippopotomus to please read more carefully before engaging in further semi-intellectual discussion. I feel like im teaching a class of down-syndrome students. And what, pray tell, was the most important lesson learned in the 20th century from Nazi Germany.. what THE FUCK was the single most important explosion of information that you have now deemed the greatest thing learned in over 100 years that came from my allusion to "German concentration camps" I realize im steam boating towards a flurry of comments like "iNcontroL just let it go" or "relax" or "god you argue so much" But i have an alergic reaction to dumb, and these 2 guys are making my skin bleed. Well you seem to dismiss opinions by trying to get at the idea that they were just thoughtless impulses evoked by your comment about concentration camps. As if being repulsed by nazi germany is unwarranted. But Nazi Germany has a lot to teach us. I don't feel like writing an essay about why it's important. Perhaps most relevant is that the consequence of failing to check government, of nationalism, of exagerrating threats was at one point in history, massive genocide. Instead of picking out one thing you object to in our responses explain the point of your post if it isn't to justify what Bush does? Is it just an aimless rant?
Jesus tap-dancing christ. Are you cereal? Ive said like 4 times now with long winded drawn out explanations what-the-fucking purpose of my post was. Go look back and watch for the catch word: "FucK" usually around that word is where im trying to explain myself.
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On September 07 2006 19:48 ToT)Testie( wrote:
If Clinton had released this news, he'd probably have been impeached. Why?
Nearly impeached for infidelity.
Read my post about what would have happened if Clinton released the news. It's true, and you know it deep down inside.
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On September 07 2006 19:52 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
You can go to bed sir.
I regret so deeply my referance to the Nazi summer camps. This will be my last attempt to explain this. Litterally, the two are completely seperate, in severity and mechanics, i understand this. The referance was purely to exemplify the existance of such tactics throughout history, and throughout the world. No, im not saying its good or legal or swell. What i am saying, and this gets discussed more adequatly in my later points (which seem to have been completely forgotten) is these tactics, have and will be used by EVERYONE in varying ways and degrees. The media coverage and the bitchiness everytime the US utilizes what EVERYONE is utilizing as some kind of "unique" or "omg cruel" way of getting information geared towards ending a fuckign war and ultimately saving lives is painstaking to the least.
Yeah, but there has to be a point to what you're saying, no? So what if everyone does something? Does that make it right? If you don't think it's good or legal, then what is your point? Do you have some mercy for all who committ such transgressions against civil liberties? Do you want Bush to be judged on the standards of someone who got away with human rights violations?
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
Under the sheer weight of having to re-explain myself im going to sit this one out, holy fucking shit.
Its not about Germany.
Its not about the legality of the tactics.
Its not about Bush, and how I want him safe and happy.
Its about the complete and utter bias towards the US and how this site gets so fucking twisted when the US does something that everyone else does. Is it right? No. Do i care? fuck no. Im trying to convey an annoyance.
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{88}iNcontroL, I apologize for incorrectly challenging one of your posts, and have gone back and changed my response to that post after realising that I am a total jackass. Sorry for the inconvenience.
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On September 07 2006 19:57 hasuprotoss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 07 2006 19:48 ToT)Testie( wrote:
If Clinton had released this news, he'd probably have been impeached. Why?
Nearly impeached for infidelity.
Read my post about what would have happened if Clinton released the news. It's true, and you know it deep down inside.
The reason I'm bringing up extraordinary rendition is because that's how Bush got fucked into telling everyone about the secret prisons. They probably existed for some time, yeah, but Clinton--as far as records show--used it no more than a dozen times. Bush, has used it over 150 times. It's not just because he's a conservative.
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Its about the complete and utter bias towards the US and how this site gets so fucking twisted when the US does something that everyone else does. Is it right? No. Do i care? fuck no. Im trying to convey an annoyance.
I offered this in a question as a possible reason for your post.
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Alright, I have just been informed that EVERYTHING that I initially said in this thread is completely false. Thankyou, locked, for not insulting me but just politely correcting me.
Now I have to go beat the crap out of all my goddamn past english teachers for making me look like a jackass.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 07 2006 20:12 Hippopotamus wrote:Show nested quote +
Its about the complete and utter bias towards the US and how this site gets so fucking twisted when the US does something that everyone else does. Is it right? No. Do i care? fuck no. Im trying to convey an annoyance.
I offered this in a question as a possible reason for your post.
Only you brilliantly guised it as "aimless rant" sorry if i didnt view my opinion as such.
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iNcontroL
USA29055 Posts
On September 07 2006 20:07 Lemonwalrus wrote:
{88}iNcontroL, I apologize for incorrectly challenging one of your posts, and have gone back and changed my response to that post after realising that I am a total jackass. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Yeah i saw that, was a misunderstanding completely fine.
Im a heated debater i dont take any of this personal so no worries <3
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On September 07 2006 19:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
ZOMG They dont ask nicely for information? Fucking monsters! Not like those other institutions throughout history where national terrorists and conspirators are treated with dignity and respect, like in the glory days of Vietnamese prison camps, Russian holding cells, German concentration camps, South American executions, French dungeons or Middle Eastern mass graves. Shame on you USA, your the only ones who use forceful tactics to extract information. Fucking bastards, I bet pre-Bush these camps or anything of the sort never existed.. yeah, Bush solely set them up, it was all his idea that prick! He just hates non whites im sure of it. No President other than THIS American president have ever utilized such tactics, nobody.
NO.
The second USA decided to become the world's sheriff and God's right hand it lost its right to be like everybody else.
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EPT
