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On August 01 2013 06:07 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing. But why isn't it your thing. No one is saying you have to find black women attractive. But you have to acknowledge why you find them more or less attractive then white women. Believe it or not, peoples perception of attractiveness is HEAVILY influenced by what they are told and shown as they grow up, and as they live their lives. Society in general will tell you that white women are more attractive than black. It's sad, it's not your fault as such, but acknowledging it goes a long way as to alleviating the problem. Yea, you're right, but they are other reasons beside racism. For instance, if you were never in contact with people of different ethnicity in your life, you're not very likely to develop attraction to them, aside from exoticism. Most people are attracted to people who share similar trait and from the same culture. Since beauty is mostly cultural, you're more likely to fall in love with people within your culture that purposely try to be attractive to you than to those trying to be attractive to their own culture.
Yes, granted, there are of course other factors involved, but how many people will never come into contact with a black women?
The 2nd part of your post is kinda confusing, but I'll try to respond. Beauty is mostly cultural, agreed, but the problem arises when black women are not part of our culture of beauty. So yes, you will find people who are part of your culture more attractive, no doubt, but the fact that this does not include black, transgender or Indian people is a problem.
This does not mean that you have to find these women attractive, nor that I think you should sleep with them. Instead, all I suggest is that people are able to recognize the problem that these women face by not being part of this culture of beauty. Just simply by doing that it can help start a culture shift, whereby race is not as relevant in determining attractiveness as it currently is.
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On August 01 2013 06:09 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. There's this nifty thing called the burden of proof. The person with said burden the the person making the claim. Yes, it's possible that a given person who finds some characteristic unattractive does so because of a institutionalized prejudice, or something similar, but until that's actually shown to be the case, you are actually being prejudiced against them, since you have literally zero knowledge of why they find certain things attractive vs unattractive, and yet you've already assumed that it's definitely/probably because of some societal prejudice. Now, I'm not exactly well-versed in every culture in the world, but I live in Toronto, Canada, which is one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the entire continent. Considering I see (and have always seen) pretty much every race/culture/religion/subgroup there is every time I go outside, it's pretty absurd to claim that my impression of black people is solely or even mostly influenced by "normative culture" (I note that you have not provided any definition of what this actually is so that we could actually check if I've been affected by it; instead you've said something like "well, it's possible you are just prejudiced so you are prejudiced") when I've actually encountered tonnes of black people in real life that would render any of these supposed normative stereotypes pretty hollow-looking. Show nested quote +Look, arguing with you is getting pointless. "Just because" is not a reason. And there is a reason for everything, even if it's hard to find. I don't take you seriously because you keep insisting that "just because" is a justification for your opinions. Fine. You don't find darker skin tones sexually attractive "just because." Can't argue with nothing. What is a reason that you would accept? What is a good reason for being attracted to, say, blue eyes? How about curly hair? What is a "good" reason to be attracted to a particular characteristic? Why do you think that all characteristics are equally important to people? Are not some physical traits much more noticeable than others? How do you move from: 1) I don't find dark skin tones sexually attractive to 2) I am prejudiced against black people. I haven't said a damn thing about the worth of the person. I just said that they don't turn me on physically! Why is this somehow not permitted? I don't like facial piercings, large tattoos, millions of earrings, clit piercings, shaved heads, and a myriad of other things. How is this an attack on the character of these people? You need to get it through your head that not wanting to have sex with someone isn't a dismissal or negative interpretation of them. There are plenty of people whom I love and respect very much, but for whom I feel zero sexual interest.
I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like curly hair because I think it looks youthful and because it's easier to grab and handful of it during sex.
The reasons don't have to be fucking Euclidean proofs, but they should probably be more substantial than "just because."
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When i was younger this was a issue for me, i tought about it, if it bothered me or not..
20 years later i must say that this is a none issue.. fuck it! Leave them be.. let everyone do what they choose(unless if harms others of course).. it's not the case!
The only issue with this for me.. is HOW IS IT POSSIBLE THAT NOT ALL OF US THINK THE SAME THING!
they are human beings with different tastes.. let them have the life they choose...
I have gay friends and I like them, they are normal guys... who they sleep with doesn't bother me at all
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics.
How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women.
Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics.
How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women.
Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are.
Are you aware that there are chromosome combinations beyond XX and XY? Biological sex isn't especially binary and painting it as such and then using that to define what is real and what is not defies the evidence of science. At this point it's just willful ignorance. It's not that simple and if you think it is it's because you don't know what you're talking about.
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On August 01 2013 06:04 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:02 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:01 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:59 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Or you could fuck off out of my sex life? What a mature and well formed response, excellent work. Maybe you shouldn't ask people that question? You haven't received a positive response yet. I mean, its not like people can control who they are attracted to. No, they can't, and it's completely fair. But just because a question makes someone uncomfortable doesn't mean it shouldn't be asked.
No, its rude, impolite and we can tell you to fuck off if we want.
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On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits.
Well that is the crux.
You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or if you are born this way.
So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point.
Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs. Maybe i like cheeseburgers because my mum always made some at saturday evening or maybe i just like cheeseburgers because i like them.
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On August 01 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 05:50 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:35 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:04 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
They can't even use the correct bathroom in most states... So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all. The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. "The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation" ^.^ Answered your own question mate. The majority only get uncomfortable because of their own subconscious prejudices. And I don't think you know what egocentric means... :s The question still stands. Why should transsexual people be privileged in this regard? They're doing essentially the same thing to that majority. And, sorry, but I'm not buying your whole ideology passed as science (gender studies, internalized racism and all that crap). http://www.thefreedictionary.com/egocentric"Confined in attitude or interest to one's own needs or affairs." which is exactly what I was getting at. And now you have made the full circle of jackassary. Lol. I am white, male, and straight. In no way is this my own needs or affairs. You have made a fucking dumbass assumption that I am trans or some shit just because I support equality for them. Assumptions make an ass out of you, really fucking badly in this case. Not to mention, the fact you're saying transsexual people are privileged in any way just adds to your levels of dumb. You have problems with reading comprehension, it seems. Nowhere did I claim I believe you're transsexual. Quite clearly you're a self-hating white male that takes the gender/whatever ideology too seriously ("I prefer white women to black women, I'm such a BAD person..."). I also did not say transsexuals are privileged right now, in that regard, i.e. bathroom choice (well, depends on the country). Quite the opposite, I implied that non-transsexual people who have an issue with certain transsexuals using the same bathroom as them are priviledge - because they're in a vast majority. There's an obvious conflict of interests/rights with no real compromise possible. Either way one side is going to be privileged. So, all in all, I'd rather say your post was being dumb, making unfounded assumptions as regards the contents of my post simply because you have trouble reading carefully.
Then how the fuck could you claim it is me arguing for a self interest you idiot?
Again, reading is key. If you can quote me saying I am a bad person, I will admit you are completely right about everything you have said and ever will say. I have said that I recognize that I am prejudice against black people, due to me finding them unattractive. This does not make me a bad person, in fact, reasoning it is in a HUGE way part of the solution.
Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously. Maybe if you were part of the oppressed, you would be a bit more inclined to take it seriously.
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On August 01 2013 06:11 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:03 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:00 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:54 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior. But you have to ask yourself why you are not attracted to black women. Why is it so impossible to not be attracted to very dark skin? Why does there always have to be some social reason for it? I am really not attracted to very dark skin. This is also true for certain hispanic girls who are really dark, as well as some Indian etc girls. The fact that its also true for Indian people, who I see as, generally speaking, more intelligent than white people, makes me think its not from seeing black people as inferior. Really dark skin just isn't my thing. It's not at all impossible that you just wouldn't like dark skin. But look at our culture. Look at what it glorifies. You don't think there's a possibility that your attractions haven't been shaped by a culture that hasn't been terribly kind to minorities? Apparently I have to say this every time I post or yall will get confused: I do not mean that you have to go run out and let minorities DP you while a fat man shits on your chest and you moan with pleasure. The Klondike forced intercourse farm does not, nor has it ever, existed. And if it was influenced by their culture and surroundings, so what? The nurture part of nature vs nurture is still important, my experienced help define who I am. Are they invalid because they're not ingrained in me at a molecular level? Is a person who's trans because of their experiences as a child instead of the natural chemistry in their brain suddenly invalid because they weren't born that way?
Our institutions, historically and presently, have violently oppressed minorities. It is reasonable to think that the influence of our institutions, will probably not be positive with respect to minorities.
So when you consider a preference like "I find people with darker skin tones less attractive" and understand that said preference has probably been shaped by our cultural institutions, it's possible that that preference is the result of a not so great influence. And, insofar as we're trying to minimize the negative influences of our institutions, personally evaluating why our preferences are the way they are might help us become better people who are less shaped by the negative influences around us.
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On August 01 2013 06:14 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:09 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. There's this nifty thing called the burden of proof. The person with said burden the the person making the claim. Yes, it's possible that a given person who finds some characteristic unattractive does so because of a institutionalized prejudice, or something similar, but until that's actually shown to be the case, you are actually being prejudiced against them, since you have literally zero knowledge of why they find certain things attractive vs unattractive, and yet you've already assumed that it's definitely/probably because of some societal prejudice. Now, I'm not exactly well-versed in every culture in the world, but I live in Toronto, Canada, which is one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the entire continent. Considering I see (and have always seen) pretty much every race/culture/religion/subgroup there is every time I go outside, it's pretty absurd to claim that my impression of black people is solely or even mostly influenced by "normative culture" (I note that you have not provided any definition of what this actually is so that we could actually check if I've been affected by it; instead you've said something like "well, it's possible you are just prejudiced so you are prejudiced") when I've actually encountered tonnes of black people in real life that would render any of these supposed normative stereotypes pretty hollow-looking. Look, arguing with you is getting pointless. "Just because" is not a reason. And there is a reason for everything, even if it's hard to find. I don't take you seriously because you keep insisting that "just because" is a justification for your opinions. Fine. You don't find darker skin tones sexually attractive "just because." Can't argue with nothing. What is a reason that you would accept? What is a good reason for being attracted to, say, blue eyes? How about curly hair? What is a "good" reason to be attracted to a particular characteristic? Why do you think that all characteristics are equally important to people? Are not some physical traits much more noticeable than others? How do you move from: 1) I don't find dark skin tones sexually attractive to 2) I am prejudiced against black people. I haven't said a damn thing about the worth of the person. I just said that they don't turn me on physically! Why is this somehow not permitted? I don't like facial piercings, large tattoos, millions of earrings, clit piercings, shaved heads, and a myriad of other things. How is this an attack on the character of these people? You need to get it through your head that not wanting to have sex with someone isn't a dismissal or negative interpretation of them. There are plenty of people whom I love and respect very much, but for whom I feel zero sexual interest. I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors. I like curly hair because I think it looks youthful and because it's easier to grab and handful of it during sex. The reasons don't have to be fucking Euclidean proofs, but they should probably be more substantial than "just because."
You have to admit, though, that there's is a vast difference between "I prefer lighter skin to dark skin" and "having dark skin kills all sexual attraction".
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs.
There is a huge difference between "why do you like pickles?" and "your stated sexual preferences do not meet my idealised requirements for sexual preferences, I demand that you account for this so I can condemn you".
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On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs.
I can't tell if your preferences are prejudices or not. But you can tell if yours are.
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On August 01 2013 06:20 WolfintheSheep wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:14 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:09 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. There's this nifty thing called the burden of proof. The person with said burden the the person making the claim. Yes, it's possible that a given person who finds some characteristic unattractive does so because of a institutionalized prejudice, or something similar, but until that's actually shown to be the case, you are actually being prejudiced against them, since you have literally zero knowledge of why they find certain things attractive vs unattractive, and yet you've already assumed that it's definitely/probably because of some societal prejudice. Now, I'm not exactly well-versed in every culture in the world, but I live in Toronto, Canada, which is one of the most ethnically diverse cities in the entire continent. Considering I see (and have always seen) pretty much every race/culture/religion/subgroup there is every time I go outside, it's pretty absurd to claim that my impression of black people is solely or even mostly influenced by "normative culture" (I note that you have not provided any definition of what this actually is so that we could actually check if I've been affected by it; instead you've said something like "well, it's possible you are just prejudiced so you are prejudiced") when I've actually encountered tonnes of black people in real life that would render any of these supposed normative stereotypes pretty hollow-looking. Look, arguing with you is getting pointless. "Just because" is not a reason. And there is a reason for everything, even if it's hard to find. I don't take you seriously because you keep insisting that "just because" is a justification for your opinions. Fine. You don't find darker skin tones sexually attractive "just because." Can't argue with nothing. What is a reason that you would accept? What is a good reason for being attracted to, say, blue eyes? How about curly hair? What is a "good" reason to be attracted to a particular characteristic? Why do you think that all characteristics are equally important to people? Are not some physical traits much more noticeable than others? How do you move from: 1) I don't find dark skin tones sexually attractive to 2) I am prejudiced against black people. I haven't said a damn thing about the worth of the person. I just said that they don't turn me on physically! Why is this somehow not permitted? I don't like facial piercings, large tattoos, millions of earrings, clit piercings, shaved heads, and a myriad of other things. How is this an attack on the character of these people? You need to get it through your head that not wanting to have sex with someone isn't a dismissal or negative interpretation of them. There are plenty of people whom I love and respect very much, but for whom I feel zero sexual interest. I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors. I like curly hair because I think it looks youthful and because it's easier to grab and handful of it during sex. The reasons don't have to be fucking Euclidean proofs, but they should probably be more substantial than "just because." You have to admit, though, that there's is a vast difference between "I prefer lighter skin to dark skin" and "having dark skin kills all sexual attraction".
The latter has been said many times.
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I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone.
I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue.
You have to admit, though, that there's is a vast difference between "I prefer lighter skin to dark skin" and "having dark skin kills all sexual attraction".
The reason it's a big deal to me is because skin tone is fundamental to physical appearance. Every single physical characteristic is affected by skin tone. It's not the same as having, I don't know, a scar on your back or something. Skin tone actually affects pretty much every visible part of the body except the eyes, so it kinda stands to reason that it'd be of pretty big importance.
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On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics.
How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women.
Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:34 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
There were a lot of people uncomfortable shaking the hands of black people and letting them use the same drinking fountains. We choose not to give two shits about them and end that stupid practice, because it was wrong. This is pretty similar and you will get over it. As a black person this makes me lol. There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:38 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
One is black and one is white. Black people also have more testosterone on average. On top of this, black people living in Africa will score lower on an IQ test on average, due to it being weighted towards western characteristics.
How many differences can you name from a trans women and a "real" women.
Also, saying you could find his post offensive is really dumb, and makes no sense at all. A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are.
That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender?
Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value?
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:19 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:35 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:32 maybenexttime wrote:On August 01 2013 05:23 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 05:22 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:18 Shodaa wrote:On August 01 2013 05:12 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
So their right, to use the "right" bathroom, because they identify with that sex, is above the right of the rest of the people who would feel uncomfortable to share the same bathroom with someone they don't identify as the same sex? A trans woman going into men bathroom risk being attacked or worse. That also means you're fine with a trans man going into a girl bathroom ? Do you even know what you're talking about ? Unlike trans woman, trans man pretty much always pass, because testosterone is "stronger" as an hormone. Well, personally I couldn't care less. But I can still see how many would be offended by a trans "man" going into a girl bathroom. There really is no need to try and shove your "I identify with my gender so now I'm female etc" into peoples faces like that. This doesn't help their cause at all. The oppressed have no obligation to be nice to their oppressers. Sorry :c And who's the oppressor? The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation or the transsexual person that forces the majority into an uncomfortable situation? Your point of view is extremely egocentric. "The majority that forces a transsexual person into an uncomfortable situation" ^.^ Answered your own question mate. The majority only get uncomfortable because of their own subconscious prejudices. And I don't think you know what egocentric means... :s The question still stands. Why should transsexual people be privileged in this regard? They're doing essentially the same thing to that majority. And, sorry, but I'm not buying your whole ideology passed as science (gender studies, internalized racism and all that crap). http://www.thefreedictionary.com/egocentric"Confined in attitude or interest to one's own needs or affairs." which is exactly what I was getting at. And now you have made the full circle of jackassary. Lol. I am white, male, and straight. In no way is this my own needs or affairs. You have made a fucking dumbass assumption that I am trans or some shit just because I support equality for them. Assumptions make an ass out of you, really fucking badly in this case. Not to mention, the fact you're saying transsexual people are privileged in any way just adds to your levels of dumb. You have problems with reading comprehension, it seems. Nowhere did I claim I believe you're transsexual. Quite clearly you're a self-hating white male that takes the gender/whatever ideology too seriously ("I prefer white women to black women, I'm such a BAD person..."). I also did not say transsexuals are privileged right now, in that regard, i.e. bathroom choice (well, depends on the country). Quite the opposite, I implied that non-transsexual people who have an issue with certain transsexuals using the same bathroom as them are priviledge - because they're in a vast majority. There's an obvious conflict of interests/rights with no real compromise possible. Either way one side is going to be privileged. So, all in all, I'd rather say your post was being dumb, making unfounded assumptions as regards the contents of my post simply because you have trouble reading carefully. Then how the fuck could you claim it is me arguing for a self interest you idiot? Again, reading is key. If you can quote me saying I am a bad person, I will admit you are completely right about everything you have said and ever will say. I have said that I recognize that I am prejudice against black people, due to me finding them unattractive. This does not make me a bad person, in fact, reasoning it is in a HUGE way part of the solution. Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously. Maybe if you were part of the oppressed, you would be a bit more inclined to take it seriously.
This is how you use privilege poorly. It is not a stick to beat people with until they agree that what they think doesn't matter.
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Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously
Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another?
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On August 01 2013 06:21 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs. There is a huge difference between "why do you like pickles?" and "your stated sexual preferences do not meet my idealised requirements for sexual preferences, I demand that you account for this so I can condemn you".
People don't like being told what they believe is bad, or wrong, in any way.
We are not condemning you for finding black women fairly unattractive. You are not at fault. Your point about the magazine and purchasing power, while makes sense, does not hold up.
Black women are vastly underrepresented, as are gays and transgenders. This is not your fault either.
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem.
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United States41973 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another?
I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue.
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On August 01 2013 06:21 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs. I can't tell if your preferences are prejudices or not. But you can tell if yours are.
Oh and how do i do that? How do i know if i like cheeseburgers because my mom made them every saturday evening or how do i know if i jus like them? You cannot tear this apart you just said it yourself before. And now you are taking a different position on that. They only thing is that you know you like cheeseburgers. You have no fucking idea why EXCATLY you like cheeseburgers. And even if you COULD tear this apart that doesnt mean you like cheeseburgers less and hotdogs more now.
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On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:21 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:19 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 06:09 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:06 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 05:57 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 KwarK wrote:
I'm not especially attracted to black girls but equally I'm not so incredibly egotistical to think that the value of black girls has anything to do with whether or not I'd have sex with them. They're actually people in their own right, even when you're not inside of them. I'm not sure why not wanting to have sex with them would imply I think they're in any way inferior.
I'm not sure why the same can't apply to trans people. They too are people who exist outside whether or not a given person would have sex with them. If your starting assumption is "they are lower value" and then you conclude from that that you don't want to have sex with them then sure, that'd be transphobic. But if you start with "I'm not attracted" and then move onto "whether or not I'm attracted to someone has literally no bearing on how much respect and dignity they deserve as a human being" then I'm pretty sure you can treat trans people like any other person you're not inside. Unless the reason you're not attracted to them is based on prejudice. Which is what we're getting at. Culture glorifies white, heterosexual cis-gendered people...and constantly beats into our brains that glorification. You have to admit that your attractions could at least be influenced by a normative culture, and while no one is demanding that you immediately go to pound town on the nearest minority, taking a step back and thinking about why you are attracted to what you are won't make you a worse person. And how do you know what is what? How you know that what is inherent and what is not? You cannot pick apart a certain like or dislike for something into "social" and "inherent" fraction. For you they appear as one thing. You're right. I can't. But when likes and dislikes line up with the prejudices of the day and then people tell me "just because" or they quote some completely nonsensical "their vagina would feel bad" reason, it's kinda suspect. And oh my god guys you cannot come into a thread and talk about your sexual preferences and expect no followup about your sex life. That's like...how discussion works. "I really like cheeseburgers with extra pickes!" "Where do you most commonly buy your cheeseburgers?" "FUCK OFF MY EATING HABITS ARE NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!" That would only be a reasonable response if I hadn't come into the thread talking about my eating habits. Well that is the crux. You cannot tell them apart therefore you cannot know if they are "prejudices" or you if you are born this way. So you need no fucking reason at all for something you like or dislike. That is the whole point. Why do need a fucking reason to like something? You just like it or not. You wont argue with someone why they like cheeseburgers more than hotdogs. There is a huge difference between "why do you like pickles?" and "your stated sexual preferences do not meet my idealised requirements for sexual preferences, I demand that you account for this so I can condemn you". People don't like being told what they believe is bad, or wrong, in any way. We are not condemning you for finding black women fairly unattractive. You are not at fault. Your point about the magazine and purchasing power, while makes sense, does not hold up. Black women are vastly underrepresented, as are gays and transgenders. This is not your fault either. Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem.
Or maybe you should stop trying to find racism in every single preference a person has?
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