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United States43505 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say.
Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit!
You're being absurd.
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On August 01 2013 06:30 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:22 Shiori wrote:I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone. I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue. That's still a hell of a lot better reason than "just because." And I've never bashed liking lighter skin. I've bashed saying "Having darker skin makes someone wholly unattractive." Like I was trying to say to Sokrates, when you say (and mean) "I will never X" you immediately make that true by virtue of the fact that you destroy any possibility of even acknowledging X.
Like i said before this is total bullshit because noone can foresee the future. Maybe that changes maybe not but who are you to tell people what they MAYBE experience or not.
That is been disproven for everybody at least once in their lives. When they made that statement they really meant it. And then something happened. That doesnt make you a bad person if you truely thought so at this very moment.
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On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:43 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:36 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
As a black person this makes me lol.
There are clear differences between a real women and a trans "women", being able to become a child is only one of them. Show me these differences between black and white people. First you have to prove you're black. You could be an impostor after all. On August 01 2013 05:43 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
A trans vagina is not equivalent to a female vagina. Based on what I've read about how they give trans women vaginas, there's no way it feels the same or behaves the same. A trans female will not be 100% female. For me, even a hint of male is an immediate 100% turn off. God dammit a woman's vagina is absolutely none of your business. Your penis is a fucking penis, you don't know the difference between a warm ham and a vagina let alone a surgically constructed one jackass. None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex. And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value?
You cant tell me or anybody that I HAVE to view you as a female, and be forced into a relationship because you feel that there is no difference between you and a "born" female.
Bottom line is that there is a good majority of people that simply wont view you as a female, even though you definitely view yourself as one/or look like one.
Women having performed hysterectomy is still a woman. He didn't mean that women who were left barren for whatever reason isn't a female, or born without sexual organs. they are just unable to give birth.
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On August 01 2013 06:37 Sokrates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:22 Shiori wrote:I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone. I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue. That's still a hell of a lot better reason than "just because." And I've never bashed liking lighter skin. I've bashed saying "Having darker skin makes someone wholly unattractive." Like I was trying to say to Sokrates, when you say (and mean) "I will never X" you immediately make that true by virtue of the fact that you destroy any possibility of even acknowledging X. Like i said before this is total bullshit because noone can foresee the future. Maybe that changes maybe not but who are you to tell people what they MAYBE experience or not. That is been disproven for everybody at least once in their lives. When they made that statement they really meant it. And then something happened. That doesnt make you a bad person if you truely thought so at this very moment.
So like...I'm not supposed to take people's expressed intent at face value?
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On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Show nested quote +Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all.
Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive.
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ya'll still confusing sex and gender up in here?
EDIT:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 01 2013 06:38 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[...] female[...] female[..] female[..]Women[..] woman[...] women. guess so.
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My god, Kwark is batting 1000 in this thread.
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On August 01 2013 06:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:47 theodorus12 wrote:
[quote]
I'm sorry for not proving to be black, I guess now I won't be allowed in this minorities circlejerk anymore
A womens vagina is absolutely my business, when people like Klondike tell me to be attracted to it. No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead. He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:50 Mohdoo wrote:
[quote]
None of my business? Someone asked what differences there are and I specified a difference. The subject was brought up earlier asking what the differences are sexually, ignoring stuff like reproduction etc. Well, in my case, I would prefer to have sex with a 100% legit female vagina. I am doing my very best to be as non-offensive as possible, but I feel like there are only so many ways to say that the vaginas are not the same, and this difference will become obvious when having sex.
And I assure you I could tell the difference between a warm ham and I vagina :p Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins? Jackass. If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value? Because there are clear definitions for what is male and female. Losing the ability to reproduce doesn't make you less of what you were at birth. It may make you abnormal but doesn't change your sex. I have no problem with you deciding, feeling and seeing yourself as a women, but please don't expect the same from me, when you aren't. And no, I'm in university for a real, scientific field. Actually makes me smirk that people can study something like LGBT issues for a living. Here is XXY, just to get you started http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXYBiological sex isn't as simple as you think it is, you are being factually wrong and you are being an ass about it. Educate yourself. Consider this an instruction from moderation.
I know it isn't "simple" and I know about this syndromes. But there are still clear definitions, like the male gives either an X or Y sperm, while the female gives the X egg being one etc.
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On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd.
You'd be surprised how many women get mad when a gay dude won't fuck em. Like...they think that just cause we're gay and it "can't mean anything" but we're dudes then any sort of sex is totally awesome for us.
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On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive.
Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you."
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On August 01 2013 06:39 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:37 Sokrates wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:22 Shiori wrote:I like blue eyes because they sparkle more and blue is one of my favorite colors.
I like light-ish skin tones because it's brighter and because I like the way it meshes with my own (pale) skin when I'm in bed with someone. I mean, this still basically just comes down to "because I like it," as I'm pretty sure you have no reason to like the colour blue. That's still a hell of a lot better reason than "just because." And I've never bashed liking lighter skin. I've bashed saying "Having darker skin makes someone wholly unattractive." Like I was trying to say to Sokrates, when you say (and mean) "I will never X" you immediately make that true by virtue of the fact that you destroy any possibility of even acknowledging X. Like i said before this is total bullshit because noone can foresee the future. Maybe that changes maybe not but who are you to tell people what they MAYBE experience or not. That is been disproven for everybody at least once in their lives. When they made that statement they really meant it. And then something happened. That doesnt make you a bad person if you truely thought so at this very moment. So like...I'm not supposed to take people's expressed intent at face value?
If a couple marries and vows to themselves they will be together till death will part them then they mean it at this point. Statistics proof us otherwise.
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On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour.
Personally, I'd say if one sole feature was enough to kill all sexual attraction for you (whether it's skin colour, hair colour, height, weight, etc.), then I'd say you have some prejudices that go beyond simple preferences.
Even if you wouldn't want to have sex with a man, it's not very hard to say that certain men are attractive in appearance. It would be just as weird for a man to say "there is no man in the world with attractive features" as it would be a woman.
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On August 01 2013 06:40 theodorus12 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:35 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:32 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:23 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:12 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 06:03 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 06:02 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 05:56 theodorus12 wrote:On August 01 2013 05:51 fugs wrote:
[quote]
No it's not your business. My vagina is absolutely none of your fucking business and I'm getting really fucking tired of people like you trying to make it their business just because I'm TRANSEXUAL! Fuck off pervert if you're so interested in vagina look one up in your daddy's magazines instead.
He said I must be attracted to trans people, I am not, because they aren't real women and don't have a real vagina. People like you are exactly the ones giving trans people a bad name. When in a discussion, someone says something you don't like you just go BUT IM TRANS YOU PerV. Cute. How exactly am I supposed to react when some creepy internet perverts argue over the legitimacy of my genitals? Please enlighten me. On August 01 2013 05:56 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 05:53 fugs wrote:
[quote]
Oh I'm so sorry that my vagina doesn't pass your fucking weird creepy fertility test. Oh how will I ever get by knowing that your penis will never grace my loins?
Jackass.
If you can't discuss this issue without getting offended and calling people names, why are you here? I'm voicing my reasoning for my feelings on the issue in a polite and respectful manner. Its not my job to make sure I don't offend you, but I am doing my best to be as respectful as possible given the situation. No you aren't voicing your opinion in a reasonable or respectful manner. You're being a condescending, transphobic, douche and if that's you trying to be respectful then I feel really bad for anyone that comes into contact with you. No moderator in here? Because this was a fairly civil discussion, before someone thought his feelings were hurt and started spouting insults around Civilized? You have got to be kidding. You are continuously insulting trans members and expecting not to get yelled at? I'm sick of seeing people like you insist that I'm fake. You're treating this argument like a zoo. We're all in cages while you discuss the legitimacy of our lives. You have no respect for any of us and if you do you sure as hell have a shitty way of showing it. I don't want to insult you in any way. Just saying you aren't a real women, which is true, or are you able to give birth etc? He asked why I wouldn't be attracted to trans people? The answer is because they aren't real, biological women. If someone were attracted to white people, she wouldn't find me attractive, because I am not white. This isn't derogatory in any way or form. It's just calling things for what they are. That is incredibly insulting. You're sugar coating being an asshole. Women who have hysterectomies can't give birth, there are women born without sexual organs but they're still women. How many organs does a person need before their gender is decided? Why does the person not get to decide their own gender? Who are you to tell me that I'm not a woman? You're not a doctor or a scientist. You didn't study transgender or LGBT issues for a living. Why are you talking about things you don't understand as if your opinion holds any value? Because there are clear definitions for what is male and female. Losing the ability to reproduce doesn't make you less of what you were at birth. It may make you abnormal but doesn't change your sex. I have no problem with you deciding, feeling and seeing yourself as a women, but please don't expect the same from me, when you aren't. And no, I'm in university for a real, scientific field. Actually makes me smirk that people can study something like LGBT issues for a living. Here is XXY, just to get you started http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XXYBiological sex isn't as simple as you think it is, you are being factually wrong and you are being an ass about it. Educate yourself. Consider this an instruction from moderation. I know it isn't "simple" and I know about this syndromes. But there are still clear definitions, like the male gives either an X or Y sperm, while the female gives the X egg being one etc.
Ok, whats your point? No one cares about those, including the law.
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Honestly, I don't think one's choice to have sex or not to have sex with some person is really much of an issue no matter what their reasoning is. If someone doesn't want to have sex with transgender women because they think transgender women are inferior to cisgender women, then the problem is with their reasoning, not their sexual preference. But if they really would just prefer to have sex with women who haven't undergone sexual dysphoria, well, that's completely up to them, provided that they're respectful about it and don't somehow attack the person in question.
I mean, there shouldn't ever be a situation where you need to explain why you didn't have sex with someone. You can literally say no for any reason at all, because having sex with someone is basically a voluntary gift. You don't have to give it if you don't want to. The point here is that when someone says they don't want to have sex with transgender women, that's only really a problem if their reasoning is something like "transgender women are inferior to cisgender women" rather than something like "I prefer to have sex with cisgender women." They don't really need to explain why, because it's not like they're doing trans women a disservice by not having sex with them. I mean, I could decide not to have sex with someone because I think their first name is boring. Doesn't make me a bad person, because sexual attractiveness isn't the same as evaluating the worth of a person, and neither is it some sort of universal statement.
Even if you wouldn't want to have sex with a man, it's not very hard to say that certain men are attractive in appearance. It would be just as weird for a man to say "there is no man in the world with attractive features" as it would be a woman.
I have literally never been sexually attracted to any man I have ever seen in my entire life. That doesn't mean I think men are ugly, just that I don't find them sexually appealing. I mean, I don't think Davinci's Last Supper is sexually attractive, but that doesn't mean I think it isn't attractive in general.
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On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd.
You use hyberbole an absurd amount, that is for sure.
Please don't compare being gay to not finding black women attractive. You are not born into finding a certain thing attractive. Tastes in that change as your grow up and are influenced by things a LOT.
It is not about telling them you don't want to "use them like a piece of meat and come inside them?" but what you are telling them is you don't find them attractive. When this happens with enough men this translates to them being told being black is not an attractive trait.
Here is a real example of when this is a problem. http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/03/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/
Whitewashing in the media means that it is much harder for black women to find jobs in this area. Yes, on the face of it, this will only effect a few women, but there are wider reaching consequences.
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On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you."
For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them.
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On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive.
Well, then, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that I should have to take issue with my own sexual preferences. I mean, I'm sure obese women and men feel pretty left out on the sexual attraction ladder, and I don't think that they deserve that by any means, but neither am I suddenly going to find them attractive, because I just don't.
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United States43505 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:44 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd. You use hyberbole an absurd amount, that is for sure. Please don't compare being gay to not finding black women attractive. You are not born into finding a certain thing attractive. Tastes in that change as your grow up and are influenced by things a LOT. It is not about telling them you don't want to "use them like a piece of meat and come inside them?" but what you are telling them is you don't find them attractive. When this happens with enough men this translates to them being told being black is not an attractive trait. Here is a real example of when this is a problem. http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/03/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/Whitewashing in the media means that it is much harder for black women to find jobs in this area. Yes, on the face of it, this will only effect a few women, but there are wider reaching consequences.
So my sexual preferences are less important than those of the gays and I have less of a right to mine then they have to theirs because they were born that way?
And you're making an argument built around the sanctity of the genetic state at birth as opposed to strong feelings of identity to battle for the trans cause in this topic?
And you feel absolutely no hypocrisy?
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On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them.
But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way.
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On August 01 2013 06:44 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd. You use hyberbole an absurd amount, that is for sure. Please don't compare being gay to not finding black women attractive. You are not born into finding a certain thing attractive. Tastes in that change as your grow up and are influenced by things a LOT.
This claim keeps coming up without any sort of proof. Clearly, people keep turning out homosexual or attracted to BDSM or children or animals and other non-standard stuff despite the mainstream cultural norms. Why does a lack of attraction towards black women have to be cultural? Couldn't it just be their innate disposition?
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EPT
