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On August 01 2013 06:33 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance.
I would definitely expect a transgendered person to come forward with that information. I wouldn't personally like that I had been dating a trans gender. The person might have been nice, but its something I feel is personal, and for the person to let me know would be nice. Its a matter of respect really in my opinion.
For any transgendered people here. Out of curiosity. Is that fair? What would you do?
If you are on a date, would you come forward with your past gender? or is that something you would expect him/her to respect, even though a vast majority people might prefer a "normal" female.
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On August 01 2013 06:47 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Well, then, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that I should have to take issue with my own sexual preferences. I mean, I'm sure obese women and men feel pretty left out on the sexual attraction ladder, and I don't think that they deserve that by any means, but neither am I suddenly going to find them attractive, because I just don't.
No, of course you're not going to suddenly find them attractive. Once again, I stress, no one is telling you that you have to find them attractive. But recognizing the reason that you find them unattractive is the key.
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On August 01 2013 06:49 TheRealArtemis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:33 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance. I would definitely expect a transgendered person to come forward with that information. I wouldn't personally like that I had been dating a trans gender. The person might have been nice, but its something I feel is personal, and for the person to let me know would be nice. Its a matter of respect really in my opinion. For any transgendered people here. Out of curiosity. Is that fair? What would you do? If you are on a date, would you come forward with your past gender? or is that something you would expect him/her to respect, even though a vast majority people might prefer a "normal" female.
That is a personal judgment. The best way is to be tactful and let them down the same way that you would someone who you were not attracted too if they asked you out. It is going to suck and I wouldn't make snap judgments. If you are unsure, then you should simply state "I don't know, can you give me time to think about it".
Honesty is the best policy.
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On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way.
But you shouldn't have such fear of recognizing your own racist traits. This isn't "I hate blacks and I want them to burn in hell" racism. This is a subconscious thing that has formed from factors completely out of your control.
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United States43989 Posts
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to.
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On August 01 2013 06:49 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:47 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Well, then, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that I should have to take issue with my own sexual preferences. I mean, I'm sure obese women and men feel pretty left out on the sexual attraction ladder, and I don't think that they deserve that by any means, but neither am I suddenly going to find them attractive, because I just don't. No, of course you're not going to suddenly find them attractive. Once again, I stress, no one is telling you that you have to find them attractive. But recognizing the reason that you find them unattractive is the key.
There's a biological imperative at work also. You're programmed to find the best possible mate, and the health risks associated with obesity make it pretty logical for people to be genetically predisposed to avoid them. Symmetry serves a similar function when assessing beauty as far as I'm aware.
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On August 01 2013 06:51 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way. But you shouldn't have such fear of recognizing your own racist traits. This isn't "I hate blacks and I want them to burn in hell" racism. This is a subconscious thing that has formed from factors completely out of your control.
But being racist is bad and its makes me a bad person. I must be wrong in my sexual preference and be an evil person who was raised poorly by my parents, who must be bad people too.
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On August 01 2013 06:49 TheRealArtemis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:33 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance. I would definitely expect a transgendered person to come forward with that information. I wouldn't personally like that I had been dating a trans gender. The person might have been nice, but its something I feel is personal, and for the person to let me know would be nice. Its a matter of respect really in my opinion. For any transgendered people here. Out of curiosity. Is that fair? What would you do? If you are on a date, would you come forward with your past gender? or is that something you would expect him/her to respect, even though a vast majority people might prefer a "normal" female.
For a date for something serious, yes, it is something you disclose during the first few dates, way before sex. Not the first thing I would mention about me, because it is still something very personal and could be used against me.
For a one night ? maybe, depends on the circumstance, but I don't feel obligated.
This is just my opinion though, others might not feel the need to disclose it at all.
Please try to use cisgender (cis) to refer to "real" women, as I am a real woman too.
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On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way.
Well, one thing you can do is don't say "I will never have sex with a black chick." Which I don't believe you've actually said. "And Klondie, that's incredibly easy to do, what a stupidly obvious thing for you to suggest!" But a lot of people do say that. And that's kinda a problem. Because it implies that black skin alone is enough to disqualify someone from being attractive for them. That shit is racist yo.
Now, there are enough white women in the world that it's entirely possible that you will never run out of attractive white women and you will simply never encounter a black woman you find attractive. You can have preferences. But to completely cut off the chance for those preferences to change is bad.
And no, black women around the world aren't crying themselves to sleep every night cause they can't get dat Plansix penis. But I can say in gay world, being attracted to black guys is outright considered a fetish. There's no middle ground for them. Either you don't like black guys, or you exclusively like them and literally can't get off to anything else. Being fetishized for your skin color isn't great. And it really does limit how they're allowed to interact in the community as a whole, which is where the real world consequences of racism in sexuality (I guess that's what I'll call it) manifest themselves.
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United States43989 Posts
On August 01 2013 06:51 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way. But you shouldn't have such fear of recognizing your own racist traits. This isn't "I hate blacks and I want them to burn in hell" racism. This is a subconscious thing that has formed from factors completely out of your control.
You've diluted your argument to the point that it would apply with the exact same arguments and validity for regional accents or cultural norms and yet you're still waving the banner of racism. Certain accents are deemed more desirable than others, socially, professionally and so forth, not because people hate Scousers or whatever but because they pick up associations subconsciously throughout their life. It's the same argument.
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On August 01 2013 06:49 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:47 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Well, then, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that I should have to take issue with my own sexual preferences. I mean, I'm sure obese women and men feel pretty left out on the sexual attraction ladder, and I don't think that they deserve that by any means, but neither am I suddenly going to find them attractive, because I just don't. No, of course you're not going to suddenly find them attractive. Once again, I stress, no one is telling you that you have to find them attractive. But recognizing the reason that you find them unattractive is the key.
Why is that so important to you? What practical difference is there between consciously and subconsciously realizing I'm not attracted to black girls because they remind me of my mother, who I don't like? Recognizing why won't change my preferences, and the level of introspection required to evaluate every nuance of your sexuality is insane and serves no real purpose except to give you some "security" which isn't really an issue if you're not insecure about your sexuality.
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On August 01 2013 06:51 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way. But you shouldn't have such fear of recognizing your own racist traits. This isn't "I hate blacks and I want them to burn in hell" racism. This is a subconscious thing that has formed from factors completely out of your control.
I can't even get an erection looking at dark skin porn.
But, know what? Same with fake breasts, tongue rings, fat girls, gay porn, scat/water play, tall women, small dick guy, or positions other than the one's I like...
I don't have control over these things, it's personal preference... I'm not racist if I don't find black women attractive, the same reason I'm not a homophobe if I don't find guys attractive, or discriminatory to fat people if I don't find them attractive...
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On August 01 2013 06:55 Shodaa wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:49 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:31 Rhaegal wrote:
So if I bring a woman home, who I then find out is trans, and I get mad, I'm the bad guy? Is that what the general consensus of these last few pages are? Because that seems absurd to me.
If it was such a big deal to you maybe you should have asked? If you liked what you saw then you get mad then yeah, you're an asshole. That said, if it's something that a trans person is aware other people might care about but might not think to ask then I think it'd be courteous to let them know in advance. I would definitely expect a transgendered person to come forward with that information. I wouldn't personally like that I had been dating a trans gender. The person might have been nice, but its something I feel is personal, and for the person to let me know would be nice. Its a matter of respect really in my opinion. For any transgendered people here. Out of curiosity. Is that fair? What would you do? If you are on a date, would you come forward with your past gender? or is that something you would expect him/her to respect, even though a vast majority people might prefer a "normal" female. For a date for something serious, yes, it is something you disclose during the first few dates, way before sex. Not the first thing I would mention about me, because it is still something very personal and could be used against me. For a one night ? maybe, depends on the circumstance, but I don't feel obligated. This is just my opinion though, others might not feel the need to disclose it at all. Please try to use cisgender (cis) to refer to "real" women, as I am a real woman too.
Ah okay thanks. And thanks for the Cis term. didn't mean any offense, to people here with the "real" women. Just didn't know what to say.
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On August 01 2013 06:53 Derez wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:49 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:47 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Well, then, that sucks, but it doesn't mean that I should have to take issue with my own sexual preferences. I mean, I'm sure obese women and men feel pretty left out on the sexual attraction ladder, and I don't think that they deserve that by any means, but neither am I suddenly going to find them attractive, because I just don't. No, of course you're not going to suddenly find them attractive. Once again, I stress, no one is telling you that you have to find them attractive. But recognizing the reason that you find them unattractive is the key. There's a biological imperative at work also. You're programmed to find the best possible mate, and the health risks associated with obesity make it pretty logical for people to be genetically predisposed to avoid them. Symmetry serves a similar function when assessing beauty as far as I'm aware.
But biological imperative generally isn't enough to kill all possible attraction. If a single contrary trait was enough to remove all sexual attraction, humans would have stopped having sex a long time ago.
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On August 01 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:44 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd. You use hyberbole an absurd amount, that is for sure. Please don't compare being gay to not finding black women attractive. You are not born into finding a certain thing attractive. Tastes in that change as your grow up and are influenced by things a LOT. It is not about telling them you don't want to "use them like a piece of meat and come inside them?" but what you are telling them is you don't find them attractive. When this happens with enough men this translates to them being told being black is not an attractive trait. Here is a real example of when this is a problem. http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/03/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/Whitewashing in the media means that it is much harder for black women to find jobs in this area. Yes, on the face of it, this will only effect a few women, but there are wider reaching consequences. So my sexual preferences are less important than those of the gays and I have less of a right to mine then they have to theirs because they were born that way? And you're making an argument built around the sanctity of the genetic state at birth as opposed to strong feelings of identity to battle for the trans cause in this topic? And you feel absolutely no hypocrisy?
Importance is irrelevant, I don't know why you mention it.
The reason that they are different is because a homosexuals preferences were not shaped by a society that is oppressive.
Sadly, the world that we live in, a lot of people, including blacks, homosexuals, and trans people are oppressed.
This oppression then influences how people feel towards these races, making the problem self fueling, a vicious circle, if you will.
One of the most obvious visible effects of this is in the fact that a lot of men "naturally" find black women unattractive. However, when you root around for the source of this preference, it is because of a subconscious racism.
Some guy I found states it better than I can:
Well, first you have to take into account the dominant group.
If you take a look at Black-White relations, the power has always went to the Whites and the Blacks were either oppressed, enslaved, or devalued. There has always been this belief that if you want to be valuable and admired, you have to be white.
It's an awful, awful result of white oppressiveness.
Now take into account that aesthetics results from cultural acceptance. Isolated African tribes LOATHE the appearance of the white person. It's hideous. They look like their insides were turned out. Ghostly. Dead. So unappealing.
But they're isolated so they've never had to accept white power. They don't experience many white people -- and their culture does not have to accept them as the source of freedom.
But urban third and first world countries that the English and French once ruled all dominated the culture. It was difficult for anyone darker than white to be recognized as a person.
Now although racist superiority is not taught like it once was, our parents and their parents all experienced some of these teachings. Even if they did not pass down these teachings, we learn these lessons from interactions.
White men still, overall, have the power AND they are trying to keep it this way. Minority groups are usually under-represented in positions of power. Lessons do not have to be verbally taught in order for them to be accepted.
Everyone likes to believe they are valuable and everyone wants at least the opportunity for power: the most oppressed group-- black men-- realize on some level that the light women are associated with money and power and light children are associated with opportunity.
White men control the media and they definitely encourage this nonsense.
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On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to.
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances
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On August 01 2013 06:56 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:51 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way. But you shouldn't have such fear of recognizing your own racist traits. This isn't "I hate blacks and I want them to burn in hell" racism. This is a subconscious thing that has formed from factors completely out of your control. You've diluted your argument to the point that it would apply with the exact same arguments and validity for regional accents or cultural norms and yet you're still waving the banner of racism. Certain accents are deemed more desirable than others, socially, professionally and so forth, not because people hate Scousers or whatever but because they pick up associations subconsciously throughout their life. It's the same argument.
It would apply to those things. However, I think the level at which black people are oppressed is a much bigger problem than people with certain accents.
Not liking someone with a certain accent is a good example of a prejudice.
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On August 01 2013 06:58 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:48 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:44 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:37 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:27 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:25 Shiori wrote:Sorry, by the way, for taking people's rights, and lives too seriously Whose rights/lives are being threatened by my choice to have sex with one person instead of another? I believe he is conflating this fight with the general struggle against transphobia which is a real problem and has been expressed by many people in this topic. He's not doing it particularly well and I think he's somewhat of an internet cliche but transphobia is a serious issue. Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you. Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Will they die of a broken heart because I don't want to use them like a piece of meat and come inside them? God, what if they find out the gay community don't want to fuck them either? Shit! You're being absurd. You use hyberbole an absurd amount, that is for sure. Please don't compare being gay to not finding black women attractive. You are not born into finding a certain thing attractive. Tastes in that change as your grow up and are influenced by things a LOT. It is not about telling them you don't want to "use them like a piece of meat and come inside them?" but what you are telling them is you don't find them attractive. When this happens with enough men this translates to them being told being black is not an attractive trait. Here is a real example of when this is a problem. http://www.complex.com/pop-culture/2013/03/25-minority-characters-that-hollywood-whitewashed/Whitewashing in the media means that it is much harder for black women to find jobs in this area. Yes, on the face of it, this will only effect a few women, but there are wider reaching consequences. So my sexual preferences are less important than those of the gays and I have less of a right to mine then they have to theirs because they were born that way? And you're making an argument built around the sanctity of the genetic state at birth as opposed to strong feelings of identity to battle for the trans cause in this topic? And you feel absolutely no hypocrisy? Importance is irrelevant, I don't know why you mention it. The reason that they are different is because a homosexuals preferences were not shaped by a society that is oppressive. Sadly, the world that we live in, a lot of people, including blacks, homosexuals, and trans people are oppressed. This oppression then influences how people feel towards these races, making the problem self fueling, a vicious circle, if you will. One of the most obvious visible effects of this is in the fact that a lot of men "naturally" find black women unattractive. However, when you root around for the source of this preference, it is because of a subconscious racism. Some guy I found states it better than I can: Well, first you have to take into account the dominant group. If you take a look at Black-White relations, the power has always went to the Whites and the Blacks were either oppressed, enslaved, or devalued. There has always been this belief that if you want to be valuable and admired, you have to be white. It's an awful, awful result of white oppressiveness. Now take into account that aesthetics results from cultural acceptance. Isolated African tribes LOATHE the appearance of the white person. It's hideous. They look like their insides were turned out. Ghostly. Dead. So unappealing. But they're isolated so they've never had to accept white power. They don't experience many white people -- and their culture does not have to accept them as the source of freedom. But urban third and first world countries that the English and French once ruled all dominated the culture. It was difficult for anyone darker than white to be recognized as a person. Now although racist superiority is not taught like it once was, our parents and their parents all experienced some of these teachings. Even if they did not pass down these teachings, we learn these lessons from interactions. White men still, overall, have the power AND they are trying to keep it this way. Minority groups are usually under-represented in positions of power. Lessons do not have to be verbally taught in order for them to be accepted. Everyone likes to believe they are valuable and everyone wants at least the opportunity for power: the most oppressed group-- black men-- realize on some level that the light women are associated with money and power and light children are associated with opportunity. White men control the media and they definitely encourage this nonsense.
That's an awfully long winded way of saying "if it's white, it aint't right."
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On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless you're in a serious relationship or they ask directly
But you don't feel the other person should know that post-op? Even though you might know that you and his view on what a female is, is different?
Even if its not a serious relationship, I find it pretty necessary for people to know.
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On August 01 2013 06:55 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:45 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:40 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 06:39 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 06:36 Shiori wrote:On August 01 2013 06:33 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 06:30 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 06:26 Zealos wrote:
Recognizing that the reason your find black women unattractive is, at least in part, due to racism at a subconscious level, formed by the institutionalized racism in the UK, and in 90% of the world, goes a huge way to providing a solution to the problem. By the same token whether or not I want to have sex with men comes down to misogyny. If I'll hire a black women for the same wage as anyone else, if I'll treat a black woman customer the same as any other and if I'll give them the same respect I give anyone else then I am clearly not a racist. Now, if I hate blacks and because of that choose not to have sex with them then sure. But in that case I wouldn't be racist because I don't fuck them, I don't fuck them because I'm racist. But I'm not racist, no matter how much you call me racist, denying black women my penis is not indicative of a fundamental hatred of their colour. But like...do you treat black women differently? I know the obvious answer is "of course not!" But we all have weird little stuff ingrained into us like being more nervous when a black guy is walking towards us than a white guy or when a woman holds her purse tighter around a black guy. If we even notice it we're horrified that we're doing it, but when prejudice has been beaten into you for 99% of your life, the quirks can be hard to get rid of. I am intensely suspicious of pretty much anyone, race/gender notwithstanding. So at least I'm unprejudiced in my cynicism. ^^ Please don't misrepresent me within the thread. I am right here and able to respond myself, thank you.
Who's lives are being threatened. Lets see. You, along with a great deal of other men like you, are telling an entire race of women that they are not attractive because of the color of their skin. If you cannot see why that is a problem, then I don't know what to say. Except no. I'm not saying that black women are unattractive. I'm saying that I don't find them attractive. There's a difference. Do you understand what it is? I don't think people with black girlfriends are misguided or something. They just have different subjective tastes than me. Nothing wrong with that at all. Ok, but when there are enough of you telling them you don't find them attractive, the message they get from the collective, is, that they are not attractive. Why are we in charge of the collective(whatever the fuck that is)? What are we supposed to say "I am attracted to you now, but let me get over my racism and I'll get back to you." For the millionth time. I am not saying that you have to be attracted to them. But if I'm not attracted to them, I'm racist!!! I don't want to be racist, that's bad and then black people will know that I am racist and hate me! Its the ultimate catch 22. The key is to not have any preferences that can even be mildly connected to race in any way. Well, one thing you can do is don't say "I will never have sex with a black chick." Which I don't believe you've actually said. "And Klondie, that's incredibly easy to do, what a stupidly obvious thing for you to suggest!" But a lot of people do say that. And that's kinda a problem. Because it implies that black skin alone is enough to disqualify someone from being attractive for them. That shit is racist yo. Now, there are enough white women in the world that it's entirely possible that you will never run out of attractive white women and you will simply never encounter a black woman you find attractive. You can have preferences. But to completely cut off the chance for those preferences to change is bad. And no, black women around the world aren't crying themselves to sleep every night cause they can't get dat Plansix penis. But I can say in gay world, being attracted to black guys is outright considered a fetish. There's no middle ground for them. Either you don't like black guys, or you exclusively like them and literally can't get off to anything else. Being fetishized for your skin color isn't great. And it really does limit how they're allowed to interact in the community as a whole, which is where the real world consequences of racism in sexuality (I guess that's what I'll call it) manifest themselves.
I have no idea who I'll have sex with in the future. It could be an alien for all I know, or a robot. I mean, the chances are practically zero, but it's possible. Black women have a better chance than robots/aliens with me, but given the number of black women I haven't found attractive, I would be quite surprised to meet one I did find attractive. But if I did, I wouldn't have a problem with that, because I'd find them attractive, so..
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