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On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty.
Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_<
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As a real woman who also happens to have a medical history that includes a gender transition
i love this line :D so awesome
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On August 01 2013 07:29 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +As a real woman who also happens to have a medical history that includes a gender transition i love this line :D so awesome
Right? >,<
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On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness.
I do think about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late.
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On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. "Her" is just fine, thanks <3
Because to me, if it's something pertinent to their decision to consent to sex, then it is wrong to not tell them, in the same way that it's wrong for me to imply I'm rich, famous or an astronaut to get into bed with a girl or guy.
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_<
Because they is a plural and "their point" is really awkward bad English that sounds totally wrong. This isn't me, my language is not designed for gender ambiguity in the second person possessive.
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On August 01 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< Because they is a plural and "their point" is really awkward bad English that sounds totally wrong. This isn't me, my language is not designed for gender ambiguity in the second person possessive.
actually singular they is correct English too!
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before.
You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters.
Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier.
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On August 01 2013 07:31 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:29 ComaDose wrote:As a real woman who also happens to have a medical history that includes a gender transition i love this line :D so awesome Right? >,<
Thanks both! 
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:38 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< Because they is a plural and "their point" is really awkward bad English that sounds totally wrong. This isn't me, my language is not designed for gender ambiguity in the second person possessive. actually singular they is correct English too!
I wrote "His point". "They point" sounds even worse than "Their point". The language is lacking.
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On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late.
"After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing.
Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*.
On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier.
Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing...
I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps.
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On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_<
'They' is a plural pronoun. "'It" is the correct neuter pronoun in English, although for the context that it is being used in in the quote you specified "His/her" would be proper. I agree with you though, if his summary was correct. You shouldn't have to introduce yourself as transgender or even talk about it unless it is relevant and you're comfortable about it.
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On August 01 2013 07:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:38 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< Because they is a plural and "their point" is really awkward bad English that sounds totally wrong. This isn't me, my language is not designed for gender ambiguity in the second person possessive. actually singular they is correct English too! I wrote "His point". "They point" sounds even worse than "Their point". The language is lacking.
I don't think their' point sounds bad. Its just you said they is plural and im saying actually they is singular too!
EDIT:
+ Show Spoiler +On August 01 2013 07:40 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< 'They' is a plural pronoun. "'It" is the correct neuter pronoun in English, although for the context that it is being used in in the quote you specified "His/her" would be proper. I agree with you though, if his summary was correct. You shouldn't have to introduce yourself as transgender or even talk about it unless it is relevant and you're comfortable about it. actually you are incorrect. they is singular too!
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On August 01 2013 07:39 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:38 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:36 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< Because they is a plural and "their point" is really awkward bad English that sounds totally wrong. This isn't me, my language is not designed for gender ambiguity in the second person possessive. actually singular they is correct English too! I wrote "His point". "They point" sounds even worse than "Their point". The language is lacking.
Just always use "his", or "her" if you really want as long as you're consistent, both are completely fine when the gender is unknown.
Well, that's what my Professor told us anyway.
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*.
There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent.
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On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent.
Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people?
thats sad.
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On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent.
[Previous post]
Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing...
I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps.
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:40 Foblos wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< 'They' is a plural pronoun. "'It" is the correct neuter pronoun in English, although for the context that it is being used in in the quote you specified "His/her" would be proper. I agree with you though, if his summary was correct. You shouldn't have to introduce yourself as transgender or even talk about it unless it is relevant and you're comfortable about it.
Oops, I somehow forgot the existence of the word "it". That's kinda embarrassing. Also I somehow don't think trans people will thank me for using "it" when I think I might be referring to one of them but am unsure. "His" will have to serve as a neutral until further information term.
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United States41976 Posts
On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad.
Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic?
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On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic?
yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo.
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EPT
