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On August 01 2013 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile  I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right? I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape. Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat.
You only need to get your ass beat once before you take a serious look at who knows about it I'm not saying I have the best of morals going into a one night stand, as someone else has said, but it's not about morals anymore it's fear. I don't exactly have the highest self esteem going into it either and I won't pretend otherwise, it's shallow but I just want the sex and what they don't know won't hurt them.
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On August 01 2013 08:38 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:
[quote]
Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right? I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape. Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat. You only need to get your ass beat once before you take a serious look at who knows about it I'm not saying I have the best of morals going into a one night stand, as someone else has said, but it's not about morals anymore it's fear. I don't exactly have the highest self esteem going into it and I won't pretend otherwise, it's shallow but I just want the sex and what they don't know won't hurt them.
As I said before, that sucks and sometimes people don't think about this stuff. But homophobic/transgenderphobic violent assholes don't wear signs either. That sounds super dangerous if it happens and I would be very reluctant to put my self in that situation.
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On August 01 2013 08:38 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:
[quote]
Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right? I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape. Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat. You only need to get your ass beat once before you take a serious look at who knows about it I'm not saying I have the best of morals going into a one night stand, as someone else has said, but it's not about morals anymore it's fear. I don't exactly have the highest self esteem going into it and I won't pretend otherwise, it's shallow but I just want the sex and what they don't know won't hurt them.
Yeah, I can see your point. If I got my ass beat, I would be pretty hesitant. I'm not saying its fair, its just an awful situation. I really wish our society was better equipped to deal with transgenderism. Honestly, I feel like I'd be more afraid of someone straight up killing me if they found out after having sex with me. Oy. This thread has been really eye opening for me and I appreciate the transgender posters opening up. Wishing you all the best.
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On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/
The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind.
There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker.
Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup.
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On August 01 2013 08:42 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:38 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:
[quote]
Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl.
It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right? I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape. Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat. You only need to get your ass beat once before you take a serious look at who knows about it I'm not saying I have the best of morals going into a one night stand, as someone else has said, but it's not about morals anymore it's fear. I don't exactly have the highest self esteem going into it and I won't pretend otherwise, it's shallow but I just want the sex and what they don't know won't hurt them. Yeah, I can see your point. If I got my ass beat, I would be pretty hesitant. I'm not saying its fair, its just an awful situation. I really wish our society was better equipped to deal with transgenderism. Honestly, I feel like I'd be more afraid of someone straight up killing me if they found out after having sex with me. Oy. This thread has been really eye opening for me and I appreciate the transgender posters opening up. Wishing you all the best.
Thanks  *hugs* I'm glad knowing at least one person thinks a bit differently now. Sorry if I came off as rude or anything.
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On August 01 2013 08:46 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:42 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:38 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:32 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters.
Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right? I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape. Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat. You only need to get your ass beat once before you take a serious look at who knows about it I'm not saying I have the best of morals going into a one night stand, as someone else has said, but it's not about morals anymore it's fear. I don't exactly have the highest self esteem going into it and I won't pretend otherwise, it's shallow but I just want the sex and what they don't know won't hurt them. Yeah, I can see your point. If I got my ass beat, I would be pretty hesitant. I'm not saying its fair, its just an awful situation. I really wish our society was better equipped to deal with transgenderism. Honestly, I feel like I'd be more afraid of someone straight up killing me if they found out after having sex with me. Oy. This thread has been really eye opening for me and I appreciate the transgender posters opening up. Wishing you all the best. Thanks *hugs* I'm glad knowing at least one person thinks a bit differently now. Sorry if I came off as rude or anything.
*hugs* can't say I wouldn't respond the same in your situation. Sorry all the same!
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On August 01 2013 08:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all.
So like...did you actually read Scarlett's article that she posted? It's not even remotely the responsibility of the trans woman to disclose that she's trans. If someone has a hangup about sex or a list of deal breakers, the onus is on them to ask about them.
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On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup.
Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner.
To expand on that: you don't want to sleep with a trans because our generation have been brought up to think that trans is wrong. I hope that trans people are not offended by that, I do not think it is wrong now but I am pretty sure that my father would and that I did as a kid, etc.
If you can tell if a girl is trans then you won't be attracted to her because of how you were brought up. If you are attracted to her and it's just sex then she does not need to tell you as you will never know and it wont hurt you (the guy). If it becomes a relationship then the truth is that the trans girl probably needs to wait a while until she thinks the guy is really into her before she can risk telling him.
This is completely the fault of straight men and not of trans girls. If straight men did not react against being attracted to trans girls and if straight men were not violent against trans girls then there would be no problem.
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On August 01 2013 10:22 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:30 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all. So like...did you actually read Scarlett's article that she posted? It's not even remotely the responsibility of the trans woman to disclose that she's trans. If someone has a hangup about sex or a list of deal breakers, the onus is on them to ask about them.
You say this as if this blog is some kind of end all, conclusive judgment. This is some person writing a blog. I don't think there is any point you could ever make by linking to blog.
I also don't think you are going to find many straight dudes who agree with that. A lot of guys would feel offended and taken advantage of. Don't the emotions of the guys these women are sleeping with have any role at all? With such a large majority of men being uncomfortable with dating a transexual, I feel like its a safe assumption that a prospective partner would like to know ahead of time.
Sure, in a perfect world, it wouldn't be an issue. But you can't go about your life pretending the world is an ideal place. It doesn't work like that.
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On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:
[quote]
Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner.
Depending on the circumstances that information could very likely come to light after the fact. Especially if its a place that either party frequents. Gossip tends to spread and information gets leaked. "Did you know X is a transexual?", "X didn't tell Y ___________.", etc, shit tends to get around especially with booze in the equation. Sure MAYBE it never gets out and both parties live the rest of their life in ignorant bliss, but maybe it does and suddenly one of the parties involved isn't too happy about it. I dunno, seems to be the wiser choice is to cover one's ass and put it out there. I'm not in her shoes but I've always been an honest person so maybe that's just how I'm wired.
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On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:
[quote]
Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner.
If I sleep with a girl without telling her I'm married, and my wife never finds out, then I guess all three of us are winners, right?
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On August 01 2013 10:40 OuchyDathurts wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:
[quote]
Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl.
It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner. Depending on the circumstances that information could very likely come to light after the fact. Especially if its a place that either party frequents. Gossip tends to spread and information gets leaked. "Did you know X is a transexual?", "X didn't tell Y ___________.", etc, shit tends to get around especially with booze in the equation. Sure MAYBE it never gets out and both parties live the rest of their life in ignorant bliss, but maybe it does and suddenly one of the parties involved isn't too happy about it. I dunno, seems to be the wiser choice is to cover one's ass and put it out there. I'm not in her shoes but I've always been an honest person so maybe that's just how I'm wired.
Good point. It is actually just a bad situation. I guess that the two extremes are safest. Either tell no one that you are trans (only works if you move away from your home town etc) or tell everyone that you are trans.
Telling the guy while still in a public place may have another benefit: white knights. If the girl tells the guy in public and he gets aggressive then hopefully someone will step in.
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On August 01 2013 10:22 Klondikebar wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:30 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all. So like...did you actually read Scarlett's article that she posted? It's not even remotely the responsibility of the trans woman to disclose that she's trans. If someone has a hangup about sex or a list of deal breakers, the onus is on them to ask about them.
That's why I said it was a personal call and express sympathy for the situation. I don't have that make that choice and I won't judge other peoples decision. You should read the rest of that discussion, rather than be aggressive towards people just because you think are expressing things the way you want.
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On August 01 2013 10:44 Darkwhite wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:
[quote]
And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life.
But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away.
You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past.
Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:
[quote]
Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl.
It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner. If I sleep with a girl without telling her I'm married, and my wife never finds out, then I guess all three of us are winners, right?
That's down to your conscience. A married guy has a commitment to his wife not to sleep with other women. A trans girl does not have a commitment to a third party to divulge that she is trans.
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On August 01 2013 10:37 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:22 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 08:30 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:
[quote]
"After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing.
Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all. So like...did you actually read Scarlett's article that she posted? It's not even remotely the responsibility of the trans woman to disclose that she's trans. If someone has a hangup about sex or a list of deal breakers, the onus is on them to ask about them. You say this as if this blog is some kind of end all, conclusive judgment. This is some person writing a blog. I don't think there is any point you could ever make by linking to blog. I also don't think you are going to find many straight dudes who agree with that. A lot of guys would feel offended and taken advantage of. Don't the emotions of the guys these women are sleeping with have any role at all? With such a large majority of men being uncomfortable with dating a transexual, I feel like its a safe assumption that a prospective partner would like to know ahead of time. Sure, in a perfect world, it wouldn't be an issue. But you can't go about your life pretending the world is an ideal place. It doesn't work like that.
I am a cis male who agrees with the main thrust of the article. I like this paragraph in particular:
"And why didn’t you inform us you were a transphobe, huh? Isn’t it your ethical responsibility to disclose to a potential partner that you have majour hang-ups about transgenderism prior to hooking up? After all, if I’d known you were a transphobe I wouldn’t have consented to sleeping with you! It’s rape by deception! :p"
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On August 01 2013 10:46 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:40 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters.
Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner. Depending on the circumstances that information could very likely come to light after the fact. Especially if its a place that either party frequents. Gossip tends to spread and information gets leaked. "Did you know X is a transexual?", "X didn't tell Y ___________.", etc, shit tends to get around especially with booze in the equation. Sure MAYBE it never gets out and both parties live the rest of their life in ignorant bliss, but maybe it does and suddenly one of the parties involved isn't too happy about it. I dunno, seems to be the wiser choice is to cover one's ass and put it out there. I'm not in her shoes but I've always been an honest person so maybe that's just how I'm wired. Good point. It is actually just a bad situation. I guess that the two extremes are safest. Either tell no one that you are trans (only works if you move away from your home town etc) or tell everyone that you are trans. Telling the guy while still in a public place may have another benefit: white knights. If the girl tells the guy in public and he gets aggressive then hopefully someone will step in.
Well yeah, maybe its idealistic or I run with a different sort of crowd but I'd be honest about it, but do it in a public place so if shit did hit the fan there's witnesses or back up. I don't go to the bar anymore anyway so its a non issue lol. I grew up in a pretty "gay friendly" area of the country so maybe I'm more of a minority in the mindset of assault doesn't enter my mind if I see a trans person but I'd hope that isn't the case. I dunno, if I was looking for a hookup if I felt anything was going to be a massive deal I'd tell the person. If the situation is you're at a bar and walk up to some chick and say "I want to fuck" and they reply "lets bone!" and that's the end of the conversation then I guess there's no need to delve further lol. But if you're talking, feeling each other out a bit and stuff it's probably worth mentioning.
Also, MN gay marriage law goes into effect tonight at midnight!
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On August 01 2013 10:37 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:22 Klondikebar wrote:On August 01 2013 08:30 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:
[quote]
"After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing.
Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all. So like...did you actually read Scarlett's article that she posted? It's not even remotely the responsibility of the trans woman to disclose that she's trans. If someone has a hangup about sex or a list of deal breakers, the onus is on them to ask about them. You say this as if this blog is some kind of end all, conclusive judgment. This is some person writing a blog. I don't think there is any point you could ever make by linking to blog. I also don't think you are going to find many straight dudes who agree with that. A lot of guys would feel offended and taken advantage of. Don't the emotions of the guys these women are sleeping with have any role at all? With such a large majority of men being uncomfortable with dating a transexual, I feel like its a safe assumption that a prospective partner would like to know ahead of time. Sure, in a perfect world, it wouldn't be an issue. But you can't go about your life pretending the world is an ideal place. It doesn't work like that.
Well, in a perfect I would feel safe to say to anybody that I am trans because it wouldn't be a big deal. That's not the case unfortunately.
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The problem is that it different things are going to be deal breakers for different people (I know this has already been discussed). You cannot expect someone to disclose everything that might possibly be a deal breaker. The moral of the story is probably that if you want to avoid sleeping with someone who you actually do not want to sleep with them you should always go on a few dates first and get to know them as much as possible. If you are into one night stands then you do kind of need to go yolo because you are going to sleep with girls who do not disclose deal breakers.
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On August 01 2013 10:48 hzflank wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 10:44 Darkwhite wrote:On August 01 2013 10:30 hzflank wrote:On August 01 2013 08:43 OuchyDathurts wrote:On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are.
But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with.
Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters.
Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/ The kind of guy who pretends he's famous to get pussy and his buddies high five him is a pretty deplorable human being as are his friends. That's not behavior any respectable person is going to get behind. There's a difference between little white lies one might tell a stranger and completely making shit up or knowingly withholding information you know is a deal breaker. Now obviously getting beaten for being yourself isn't cool, neither is lying or withholding information. I guess I've never been in your shoes but maybe there's an issue with approaching the wrong kind of person if their first reaction is assault. If I'm at the bar, we're talking and having fun and end up hooking up and I find out after the fact I'm going to most likely be upset, as is my right. Now if I'm at the bar and we're talking and having fun and you tell me before we're probably not going to hook up, but at the end of the day no one is lied to, feels betrayed, or upset, and maybe you make a friend and I'll be your wingman to get you a different hookup. Or she just does not tell you, you hook up and you are never the wiser. Everyone is a winner. If I sleep with a girl without telling her I'm married, and my wife never finds out, then I guess all three of us are winners, right? That's down to your conscience. A married guy has a commitment to his wife not to sleep with other women. A trans girl does not have a commitment to a third party to divulge that she is trans.
It can hardly be down to my conscience whether my wife and the girl are winners too. Congratulations on dodging the question though.
If it's just about formal commitments: I have no obligation to tell a girl I might be dating that I'm married - not even if it starts getting serious. It still seems like the sort of thing she deserves to know, and it seems like the sort of thing I should tell upfront without her having to interrogate me. Do you disagree with this?
"And why didn’t you inform us you were a transphobe, huh? Isn’t it your ethical responsibility to disclose to a potential partner that you have majour hang-ups about transgenderism prior to hooking up? After all, if I’d known you were a transphobe I wouldn’t have consented to sleeping with you! It’s rape by deception! :p"
That comparison would make sense if the probability of a so-called transphobe encountering a transsexual was the same as for a transsexual to encounter a transphobe.
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Ok, guys. I have a question. That may be considered "ignorant" But it is a genuine question that I don't get. And hopefully someone here could clarify it for me. But I would like to preface, that I am a straight male. And have 0 problems with gay,lesbian,bi, or transgender people. I honestly give 0 fucks as what some one does to be happy. So in other words, if you're gay. That's cool, it doesn't bother me. Also, I must preface this facet specifically, and will be using caps.
I HAVE 0 PROBLEMS WITH SOMEONE WHO HAS CHANGED THERE GENDER, TO WHAT THEY FEEL THEY SHOULD HAVE BEEN BORN AS. IF IT MAKES THEM HAPPY, GIVE'R
I repeat!! ^^^^read that again.
Now, here is the possible "ignorant" question. But it is an honest, genuine question. So please don't take this as any form of an attack from me, and please don't flame the shit out of me. I feel any question should be able to be asked, if it's sincere. And would love actual responses from actual LGBT ppl.
But whyyyyyyyyyyyy are transgenders lumped into the same category as gay, lesbian, and bi? I don't understand this. As far as I am concerned, your sexual preference has nothing to do with your gender. You like, what you like. But becoming a transgender is an actual medical procedure, that has nothing to do with being gay, bi , or lesbian. Am I missing something? Could someone please educate me on that facet of LGBT.
Once again, this is from a place of curiosity, not hate. =)
Kisses, hugs, and belly rubs to all!
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EPT
