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On August 01 2013 07:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:40 Foblos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< 'They' is a plural pronoun. "'It" is the correct neuter pronoun in English, although for the context that it is being used in in the quote you specified "His/her" would be proper. I agree with you though, if his summary was correct. You shouldn't have to introduce yourself as transgender or even talk about it unless it is relevant and you're comfortable about it. Oops, I somehow forgot the existence of the word "it". That's kinda embarrassing. Also I somehow don't think trans people will thank me for using "it" when I think I might be referring to one of them but am unsure. "His" will have to serve as a neutral until further information term.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender-specific_and_gender-neutral_pronouns#Alternation_of_she_and_he
Invented Pronouns ^,^
Ze (or zie or sie) and zir[36] Ze laughed I called zir/zem Zir/Zes eyes gleam That is zirs/zes Ze likes zirself
Ze (or zie or sie) and hir[37] Ze laughed I called hir Hir eyes gleam That is hirs Ze likes hirself
Ze and mer[38] Ze laughed I called mer Zer eyes gleam That is zers Ze likes zemself
Zhe, Zher, Zhim[39] Zhe laughed I called zhim Zher eyes gleam That is zhers Zhe likes zhimself
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On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps.
Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex.
If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not.
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On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad.
People have their own personal morals and values. One seen a lot is that people are perfectly fine with homosexuals and trans people because it doesn't affect them in any way, but with this they're personally being affected. Most people I know are tolerant of LGBT people, but tolerance for most doesn't include sexual interactions, and they have just as much a right to deny sex to whomever they wish as they do to be denied.
For me personally, I'm not comfortable with radical cosmetic surgeries of any kind, from nose jobs to phalloplasty. I would be completely down for a "fling" with a pre-op trans person of either sex, but would be uncomfortable with a sexual or serious relationship with someone post op. Not to the point where I'd turn away the love of my life because they'd had gender reassignment surgery, but certainly enough where I'd avoid any casual encounters.
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On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not.
I didn't mean for it to sound hostile  I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important.
I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it.
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On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo.
Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them.
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On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it.
Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls.
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On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls.
Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/
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On August 01 2013 07:48 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:40 Foblos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_< 'They' is a plural pronoun. "'It" is the correct neuter pronoun in English, although for the context that it is being used in in the quote you specified "His/her" would be proper. I agree with you though, if his summary was correct. You shouldn't have to introduce yourself as transgender or even talk about it unless it is relevant and you're comfortable about it. Oops, I somehow forgot the existence of the word "it". That's kinda embarrassing. Also I somehow don't think trans people will thank me for using "it" when I think I might be referring to one of them but am unsure. "His" will have to serve as a neutral until further information term.
I was partially wrong in my statement, as ComaDose pointed out. In strict lexical usage, 'it' is the correct singular pronoun, but because the English language does not have a neuter singular personal pronoun (because English doesn't use grammatical gender) 'they' has been used as a gender neutral singular pronoun since as early as Shakespeare. So, unless you want to take a stance on whether you will acknowledge a gender change 'they' or 'their' (or 'it'/'it's' if you want to come off insensitive) seems to be the suitable pronoun
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On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls.
I think when it comes to hook ups, what you don't know won't hurt you. It is the risk you take when you have a one night stand, sometimes you get an STD, sometimes you sleep with someone who wasn't always a girl. Its a one night stand, no one looks to take the moral high ground during the walk of shame.
Plus you can read some horror stories about tran-girls telling guys in the interest of full disclosure and the whole event turning violent. Sometimes what you don't know won't hurt you and its better that way.
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On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it.
Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. I know that someone else in this thread who is transgender said they tell someone before even exchanging phone numbers.
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On August 01 2013 08:18 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. Yeah but when a guy pretends to be some famous person to get laid all his bar buddies give him a high five. What do I get if they find out? A beating. :/
If my friends found out I lied to fuck someone they'd call me a "sad cunt" and lose all respect for me to the point where they'd probably not call me to hang out for a long time if ever, in the same way they basically blacklisted another mate for fucking his mates girlfriend even though we didn't know either of those people. Also, you can avoid being "found out" by not hiding information they may or may not find important to the boning process.
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On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it.
Well maybe you shouldnt have one night stands then? I get that you want to do whatever anyone else does, but your whole reasoning sounds extremely egocentric to be honest.
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On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them.
I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent
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On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time.
Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right?
On August 01 2013 08:26 Snusmumriken wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Well maybe you shouldnt have one night stands then? I get that you want to do whatever anyone else does, but your whole reasoning sounds extremely egocentric to be honest.
Egocentric? Why am I such a horrible person all of the sudden? I'm not some fucking spider waiting for a male to fuck me so I can bite his head off and suck out his organs. It's sex, just sex. There's no strings attached that's the point.
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On August 01 2013 08:27 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:15 Plansix wrote:On August 01 2013 07:50 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:49 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:48 ComaDose wrote:On August 01 2013 07:45 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. There is a disparity of information and of reasonable assumptions here. It is a reasonable assumption for someone to assume another person is cis, not because cis people matter more but because we're a vast, vast majority. Your argument is predicated on it being reasonable to expect everyone to establish whether or not everyone else is cisgender before sex, despite the assumption being correct the vast, vast majority of the time. It is not reasonable. Trans people know when the assumptions are wrong because they are the minority, they have the information. Also a fling doesn't change the importance of consent. Does that imply its reasonable to assume that being a trans person is a deal breaker for most people? thats sad. Maybe not most but certainly a significant number. Have you not read this topic? yeah i have but to spell it out all logically like that and ask people to accept it is note-worthily sad imo. Honesty is critical in all relationships, including transgender ones. No one envies the position and its sucks, but at the end of they no one wants to be with someone that withholds information from them. I wasn't talking about relationships i was talking about criteria of disclosure for consent
Yeah, that is a personal call if it comes to one night stands and so on. If you withhold the information, don't expect a positive response if they find out, but you know that. I also know there is good reason to do so, including the threat of violence. I don't envy your position at all.
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On August 01 2013 08:22 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:17 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Deliberately and knowingly deceiving someone on a subject that you know will affect their willingness to have sex with you just to get laid easier it utterly reprehensible in my opinion. I understand that trans people do have it harder, but this is no different than pretending to be a famous director to pick up girls. I think when it comes to hook ups, what you don't know won't hurt you. It is the risk you take when you have a one night stand, sometimes you get an STD, sometimes you sleep with someone who wasn't always a girl. Its a one night stand, no one looks to take the moral high ground during the walk of shame. Plus you can read some horror stories about tran-girls telling guys in the interest of full disclosure and the whole event turning violent. Sometimes what you don't know won't hurt you and its better that way.
This looks like the same sort of logic which people use to convince themselves that they're actually doing their husband or wife a favor by not telling them that they are having an affair with a coworker.
To me, it seems that withholding information from someone to prevent them from making an informed decision is rather questionable.
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On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
[quote]
I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
[quote]
These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. I know that someone else in this thread who is transgender said they tell someone before even exchanging phone numbers.
Coming from someone very conservative, I think once you start doing one night stands you lose pretty much all claim to morality. It's been discussed in posts above ours, but this is little different than a man telling a woman he is an athlete or famous director or something to get into her bed (in fact, the moral difference comes down in favor of the transsexual since, as the person you're quoting stated, they may earnestly view themselves as a member of that sex and so they aren't intentionally and knowingly lying regardless of what you or I might believe). All random hookups offer the chance at STDs or pregnancies no matter how careful you're actually being, or are telling the other person you're being (ever heard of girls lying about being on the pill?), and now that we have the ability to change gender another risk is sleeping with someone who used to be a different gender. If you don't want to take the risk, don't sleep with strangers.
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On August 01 2013 08:29 fugs wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:
[quote]
I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:
[quote]
C'mon. You know what the means.
Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. Why's it so deceptive? Why does it even matter? What do you want, a resume for a one night stand? Why am I such a horrible person for it? Why is it worse to hide this than it is for a guy to beat the living shit out of me when I tell him? I just want to know why you think it's such a horrible act, I know it's not great but it's certainly not as bad as you're making it sound right?
I don't think many guys would beat the shit out of you if you told them before anything happened. As I said, someone else in this thread mentioned they say something before even exchanging phone numbers. Its lying to get sex, plain and simply. If someone would have said no with proper information, but you willingly withhold that information for the sake of getting sex, it feels like some weird form of rape.
Beating the shit out of someone is definitely just as bad or worse than withholding the information. But I don't think its correct to imply its a choice between telling them and getting your ass beat.
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On August 01 2013 08:24 Mohdoo wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 08:08 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:52 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:40 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:34 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:
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I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. I do thing about both sides. Life is shitty, don't know what to say really. I understand that the life of a trans gen must be rough with family, social life, sex, dating etc. not to mention violence, and the difficulty of trying to determine who you are. But that doesn't excuse you not telling me. Its deceiving. As rough as it sounds, it was something you agreed to when making the life decision. I want to know if im with a trans gen, even if its only a single date. And I know a lot of other people would love that information. Its something everybody have to deal with. Its not alright for you to keep ripping up in your past history. Its not alright for us to suddenly know we have been with a trans gen, after its too late. "After it's too late"? Transgenderism isn't a disease, it's not life threatening (to you), and it has no effect on you. If it's just a fling there's no reason to bring it up. Now if someone has Aids or something yeah, that's risking YOUR life so it's absolutely necessary to tell you but being trans isn't the same thing. Now in a long term relationship sure, being trans is a huge part of our past and if he's willing to listen I'll go on and on bitching about it. 'Cuz back in my day we had to wear gaffs and wax our faces and blah blah blah. But you're the one assuming everyone's cisgender (Born the sex they identify as) not us. If I have to tell every person I date about my medical history they all have to tell me if they're transphobic first because I will not be caught dating one of THOSE people *yuck*. On August 01 2013 07:38 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:27 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:
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These parts wouldn't be missing.
The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. Personally? I wouldn't want to be in a relationship with a transphobic guy. You say "based on a lie" but we've been women for our entire lives. We didn't ask for this and I certainly don't like being this way. It shouldn't have to matter so much if someone is trans or not. I will not tell anyone I'm trans unless I'm seriously considering a relationship with them. If it's just a fling why do they have to know? Why am I suddenly a horrible person for it? It won't hurt anyone, in the end we both go our separate ways happily instead of one angry guy and one devastated girl. It's not like I have aids or something, the penis is just an inverted vagina anyway (If you know how genitals grow in the womb) so all the surgery does is put it back to how it was before. You do not get to make the decision regarding whether someone else needs to know something that will alter their consent to sex. I think trans women are in an awful position here but I also think that consent is really important and in this case there is a huge disparity between information which stops it being informed consent. Your assumptions about them will most likely be true because most people are not statistical outliers. However you know that you are a statistical outlier and that their assumption that you are a cis-woman is not correct. If you have reason to believe that this will alter their decision to have sex with you and do not tell them then you are dismissing their right to consent because you don't think it matters. Deciding you know better and that they don't need informed consent isn't right. And it sucks that the onus is on you but you go into it having more information than them because you know you're a statistical outlier. Personally I won't. If it's just sex I'm not taking the risk. And for the record I have tried those creepy trans dating sites (where guys look for trans women) and that was just the worst thing... I don't know... i'm only a bad person because of society's ignorance right? I might be basing this on fairness but it's where I personally stand on the whole situation. We're both better off in the end keeping it under wraps. Please don't deliberately misunderstand what I wrote in some attempt to be hostile against me. What I said "after its too late" its clearly I meant after the two people have either engaged in a relationship and/or have had sex. If you think it doesn't matter for you to disclose that information, well there isn't much I can do about it. Its just not being honest, and you are forcing people to agree to something without knowing a crucial part of your past, which they most likely want to know about. Regardless of its a fling or not. I didn't mean for it to sound hostile I understand what you said, but in the end it is my choice whether I tell you or not. If I'm just having sex with some guy one night and then leaving in the morning then no I won't tell him. It doesn't affect him. I don't know yet how I feel about the "informed consent" thing. I am a girl though, and I won't pretend otherwise. In my opinion transsexual is only a term used for someone that's transitioning. If I'm done with my transition then I'm not transsexual anymore eh? This whole thing revolves around the idea that I'm somehow fake, that because my body isn't what everyone says it should be my identity isn't important. I don't know, but I'm not going to tell some random guy I'm screwing for a night about one of the worst experiences of my life just to have him freak out on me. I've had enough people freak out on me for it. Wow. I'm curious if there is anyone else who sees this as moral behavior. This is pretty damn deceptive and I'd be furious if someone didn't tell me ahead of time. I know that someone else in this thread who is transgender said they tell someone before even exchanging phone numbers.
Lets put it another way, sometimes when men find out they have been attracted to someone who was a man, they become very violent. It is extremely common. If you want to avoid the issue yourself, don't have one night stands. You will avoid sleeping with transgender people and STDs all at the same time.
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On August 01 2013 07:27 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:Show nested quote +On August 01 2013 07:24 KwarK wrote:On August 01 2013 07:20 RockIronrod wrote:On August 01 2013 07:17 fugs wrote:On August 01 2013 07:10 TheRealArtemis wrote:On August 01 2013 07:07 Zealos wrote:On August 01 2013 07:05 Rhaegal wrote:On August 01 2013 06:59 Acer.Scarlett` wrote:On August 01 2013 06:53 KwarK wrote:
I believe scarlett is a trans woman and just posted that you should tell someone but I don't believe you're obliged to unless they directly ask. That said, I'm sure living a life as a trans woman with a very real threat of physical violence you'd want to minimise the chances of that by filtering out the guys who will get mad, even if you aren't morally obliged to. I said that for pre-op;; It is completely different situation than post-op in which case I would say you're not obligated to at all unless they ask directly or sometimes in a serious relationship depending on circumstances I still think it would be a courteous thing to do-- like a guy letting a woman know he has a micro penis or some other aspect that makes his genitals a lot different from an average person's. Personally, I love the clitoris, labia, g spot, and hitting the cervix.. I'd like to know if some of these parts were missing, same as I'd expect a woman to want to know if a man didn't have testicles. These parts wouldn't be missing. The argument is, that post-op, you can't tell the difference. C'mon. You know what the means. Having an operation doesn't make you a woman in many peoples eyes. Its unfair for a transgen to hide that, Even though I know they should have the need to hide it. A lot fear violence, others just don't say because its a matter of principle. But, Its simply not fair not telling people. And it's fair for trans people to be forced to disclose their medical history to everyone? THINK ABOUT IT PEOPLE! You finished that horrid shit of a transition and just want that part of your life to be behind you. You move to a new neighborhood and nobody knows you, everybody sees what they should see (a woman) and you're finally happy and ready to move on in life. But you want to start dating, we all yearn for love. Once one person knows you might as well be out to everyone. Now everyone who knows looks at you differently, you're not 'just a woman', you're now a trans woman. Your past has come back to haunt you when all you wanted to do is run away. You could have just kept it a secret, but they all said it wasn't fair to hide it. Now you have to go back to living in fear, fear that you'll lose your job or get assaulted. It's harder than you think to find a guy who will see passed your past. Please think about both sides when you try to argue fairness. Fairness is both parties having a complete understanding of the situation. Besides, why would you want to love someone who's transphobic, with your entire relationship being based on a lie. His (if you are a trans woman I meant no offence, I genuinely don't know and assume tlers are male unless stated otherwise) point was that if you tell someone before anything happens and then they tell everyone else then you lose your gender identity in the eyes of the society which is shitty. Why don't you not assume and just use 'they' instead as a gender neutral singular pronoun >_<
Because "they" conveys pretty much zero information. Suppose you tell someone "Yeah, they decided to go home at 10 o'clock last night! Pretty early for them..."
There is a tonne of ambiguity in those two sentences. Are we talking about a group of people or a single person? What information are we given about this person? None.
Compare: "Yeah, he decided to go home at 10 o'clock last night! Pretty early for him..."
Now we know that it's one person, and that this one person is either a male or someone whose appearance is in some sense similar to that of the average male. Are there assumptions? Yes. But they aren't fatal assumptions, because the above sentence will work in almost every single case in which one sees someone they don't know very well who looks to be a man and tries to talk about that person. Yes, it's technically possible that that person might be transgender, but Christ, we speak a language here, and language is built on reasonable, contextual assumptions. It's not an attack on transgenderism to conclude from the obvious fact that there are characteristics with a 99.999%+ incidence in the male sex that you'll pretty much always be correct to call someone with a beard and a pronounced Adam's apple a man, because almost everyone with a beard and a pronounced Adam's apple is a man.
It's not being prejudiced to use assumptions to substantiate the context of language so that we can actually say things rather than having to go on incredibly generic tangents every time we refer to an object or person or animal or plant. Obviously, once you find out that the person in question identifies as a particular gender, you should call them by the pronouns which befit that gender, but to assume that we should completely neuter the explanatory power of everyday conversation to account for excepts that probably don't happen to the vast majority of people in their entire lifetime of conversations is really just not going to achieve anything relevant.
I mean, if you go to a farm, and see some four-legged, horse-like animals, from a distance/not particularly intimately, I'm not being prejudiced to call those "horses," even though it's not inconceivable that they could turn out to be zebras or donkeys upon close inspection. Almost every time, they'll be horses.
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